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salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
 Posted - 10/27/2011 : 08:55:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Admin
[quote In fact, I have consistently said that diversity makes this a better community. I do not like it when there are disagreements, but I would prefer respectful disagreement over everyone here thinking the same thing.
In my mind, this is the key to any group, online or otherwise, being healthy. It is important to understand though, that diversity is not simply having many different people with access to the disussions. If 90% of the input is from a very tiny percent of the participants, there is no diversity. There is only the tiny percent. Imploring the majority to participate more may not be sufficient to shift more of the input away from tiny percentage. It may be important to limit, hopefully in a positive and understanding way, the input of those that dominate over the rest. In many of the group situations I face on a daily basis there are techniques employed to make sure that everyone feels that they can contribute equally and so not have the group dominated by the one or two outspoken individuals.
Unless this is openly moderated by someone, it would be up to all individuals to make sure that they are not dominating and therby inadvertantly reducing the voice and interest of those less outgoing.
Dave |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2011 : 09:30:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by salmonella
Imploring the majority to participate more may not be sufficient to shift more of the input away from tiny percentage. It may be important to limit, hopefully in a positive and understanding way, the input of those that dominate over the rest. I
Dave
Sort of like trying to get every eligible person in this country to register AND vote in every election.
Assign everyone on the TaroPatch member roster a serial number. Once they post, they cannot post again until all the other members have had a turn. When your number comes up again, you may post.
Or using that same serial number, write a random number program and have it post perhaps that day's 20 numbers of who may post. No fair saying you don't want to post because then we don't have everyone's input. And other people might hog the input. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2011 : 10:23:08 AM
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I want to make sure the issue contained within my post is undestood...'cause I'm not sure anymore.
It was about the lack of loyalty and it was not a crusade against the recording/pro members here (or anywhere). I have had a lot of help from the emerging and established artist on this site, both publicly and privately.
The negativity about Facebook I could have held back on but hey, I was miffed. So, I understand WC's attraction to facebook. It is a worthwhile place to visit. I think someone could easily correct some vindictive actions--maybe even appologize--but hey, beyond that I am over it. I understand why and also forgive the decision.
The pros and members here are fantastic. |
Bob |
Edited by - RWD on 10/27/2011 10:26:38 AM |
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salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2011 : 10:52:02 AM
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I like data. I look at data everyday.
Here is some data for your consideration.
soory about the bad format.
the data is basically number of posts per week since they became a member. the date of the last post is there also.
name of poster posts last post Member Since posts/week
wcerto 4808 10/27/2011 3/15/2006 16.4
guitarded 1796 4/24/2011 8/2/2007 8.1
Admin 4069 10/27/2011 2/10/2002 8.0
Retro 2101 10/26/2011 1/17/2005 5.9
alika207 1231 8/1/2011 12/8/2006 4.8
noeau 1071 10/17/2011 4/19/2007 4.5
cpatch 2187 10/15/2010 7/19/2002 4.5
thumbstruck 1513 10/23/2011 1/26/2005 4.3
slipry1 1134 10/26/2011 8/29/2006 4.2
Mika ele 1450 10/2/2011 9/16/2004 3.9
Auntie Maria 1768 10/26/2011 3/9/2002 3.5
Bau 226 8/27/2011 7/13/2010 3.4
sirduke58 624 10/20/2011 4/1/2008 3.3
RJS 1634 1/9/2011 5/26/2002 3.3
Mark 1628 3/6/2011 3/28/2002 3.3
markwitz 726 10/27/2011 5/29/2007 3.2
hapakid 1517 10/22/2011 7/7/2002 3.1
Reid 1524 10/16/2011 2/18/2002 3.0
Pua Kai 967 5/25/2011 8/10/2005 3.0
Lawrence 1441 10/24/2011 2/11/2002 2.8
RWD 753 10/26/2011 1/22/2006 2.5
Fran Guidry 1159 10/26/2011 3/2/2002 2.3
hawaiianmusiclover06 562 9/23/2010 12/7/2006 2.2
Julie H 1105 10/26/2011 2/15/2002 2.2
wdf 1077 10/19/2011 4/18/2002 2.2
`Ilio Nui 822 8/10/2011 5/5/2004 2.1
hwnmusiclives 526 10/26/2011 9/26/2006 2.0
ricdoug 331 10/11/2011 6/9/2008 1.9
Karl Monetti 741 9/14/2011 2/13/2004 1.8
marzullo 923 1/24/2009 3/1/2002 1.8
slkho 661 7/28/2011 10/29/2004 1.8
Konabob 823 10/22/2011 10/16/2002 1.7
Kapila Kane 710 10/10/2011 11/10/2003 1.7
ypochris 330 10/27/2011 1/13/2008 1.7
Auntie Nancy 593 8/6/2005 10/22/2004 1.6
sm80808 344 10/25/2011 9/9/2007 1.6
chunky monkey 751 10/18/2011 7/27/2002 1.6
Pauline Leland 783 4/10/2007 3/2/2002 1.6
da_joka 345 10/4/2011 7/17/2007 1.5
Momi 357 8/5/2011 5/16/2007 1.5
abrigoohana 231 10/15/2011 11/3/2008 1.5
PoiDog 245 11/26/2009 2/25/2008 1.3
John 639 10/9/2010 4/1/2002 1.3
braddah jay 235 2/14/2010 4/1/2008 1.3
slackkeymike 440 3/12/2011 1/1/2005 1.2
Hookani 226 9/13/2011 2/14/2008 1.2
neeej 443 10/2/2011 6/6/2004 1.1
PearlCityBoy 365 10/21/2011 9/14/2005 1.1
Sarah 567 10/26/2011 3/4/2002 1.1
Absolute 275 9/22/2007 1/7/2007 1.1
Peter Medeiros 493 10/26/2011 2/2/2003 1.1
tafkam1 229 9/12/2011 9/17/2007 1.1
NANI 292 12/8/2009 7/12/2006 1.1
Podagee57 280 5/28/2011 9/27/2006 1.1
javeiro 457 8/23/2010 6/9/2003 1.0
cmdrpiffle 493 10/14/2011 8/24/2002 1.0
MahinaM 388 8/11/2011 5/22/2004 1.0
Menpachi Man 274 2/13/2011 4/21/2006 1.0
salmonella 205 10/27/2011 9/6/2007 0.9
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2011 : 11:09:52 AM
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Interesting data. I've been fortunate to make music with a lot of people on that list, but there are many more with whom I have not yet done so. That gives me an idea for a "bucket list..." Who wants to be next?
(Sorry for just messing up the data by posting.  ) |
Edited by - Retro on 10/27/2011 11:10:53 AM |
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ricdoug
`Olu`olu
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2011 : 11:16:40 AM
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| I often check the links, but do not reply. Some of those playlists take a bit of time to watch from start to finish. Your playlists are appreciated by me. As to sites like FaceBook, adding friends and family has become very time consuming. I try and skim it once or twice daily. I find myself clicking the like button more often than replying, so others know their blogs were read. Ric |
It's easier to ask for forgiveness, than permission! |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2011 : 11:47:58 AM
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quote:
I like data. I look at data everyday.
Here is some data for your consideration.
soory about the bad format.
So, could you show us a graph of curves, one for each of the top 50
users, showing the number of posts per month on the vertical axis and
the months since Forum inception on the horizontal axis (Like a Stock
market Chart). Just kidding, I'll bet you do not like handling this
data quite that much! 
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 10/27/2011 11:48:38 AM |
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TerryLiberty
Lokahi
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2011 : 1:33:52 PM
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I, for one am pleased that Wanda has chosen to keep the playlist here. I'm quite new to slack key guitar, new to Taropatch and finding every bit of it educational. Hearing the playlists has broadened my appreciation and knowledge of this new (to me) artform. Thanks for putting them up for everyone to see and hear!! They're obviously a labor of love and we all benefit from their presence.
I'll bet that if the forum had a "like" facility, we'd see that quite a few people visit the mele Monday topic.
Mahalo
Terry
Olympia, WA |
Terry
Olympia, WA
Forever a haumana |
Edited by - TerryLiberty on 10/27/2011 1:36:04 PM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2011 : 1:46:38 PM
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I've always been in the +3 sigma part of the bell curve.
But Dave, come right out and say what I think you are skirting around. And while you are skirting the issue of me posting too much or hogging the forum or whatever else you are trying to prove with data, perhaps you can tell me how many people have shared posts that took a huge amount of time such as the you tube links to the songs in He Mele Aloha. There are quite a handful of people who are the ones who we can always go to for help. The ones who are always willing to answer -- like noeau when it comes to history, culture or `olelo. Like Peter Medeiros or Amy Stillman when it comes to music history, hula, slack key techniques, chords, etc. People like Russell Letson and Bill Wynne who have such a tremendous knowledge of Hawaiian music history and recordings. But there are a kajillion more members who read, who lurk, who do not post. And believe you me, plenty of people have contacted me personally or people I have met in my travels who know me because of my posts on this forum and who comment favorably about things I have said on this forum. I will agree that there are some things I have posted that I have not been proud of, primarily arguments with Bill Wynne. I think that is because both of us are so passionate about this music. He and I have the same thing in mind -- to malama the music of Hawai`i.
All that being said, Dave, perhaps you have noticed that short of my Mele Monday posts, I have said very little on this forum since I made a post about "Is Taro Patch getting boring or what". Your post on that thread made me think and sounded like you were accusing me of being the reason no one posts much of anything -- not the way we used to have lively discussions, and not just controversial topics that you think some people post just to be the ones who stir the pot. Your response to the thread about whether the forum is getting boring said something to the effect of for the past few years TaroPatch has been synonymous with wcerto and you said you think I could answer that better than anyone and what did I think was the cause. To me that said that I was running everyone away. I can live without Taro Patch but it has been and still is for the most part an interesting and helpful forum. But that is why I use Facebook for my Mele Monday posts. I have friends who still want to see that list and care less if TaroPatch is the means by which they get it. There is a great community of not only professional Hawaiian musicians, but plenty of just every day people who love the music and want to support it. I have done much to invite new members to TaroPatch, many of them through contacts on You Tube or Facebook. I have used Facebook to support TaroPatch, initially by putting the link to the TaroPatch Mele Monday post onto You Tube. I did it deliberately that way to require people to access TaroPatch and then perhaps they would explore it further and become a member. So I think I did my best at trying to ensure TaroPatch would not become boring.
You have made other comments in the past about people who like to stir the pot or people with some type of passive aggressive type thing. I have what I thought was a pretty thick skin, but you, Dave are the one who pierced that skin. That is why I was so willing to step away from Taro Patch and take my efforts at finding videos that I thought members of this forum would enjoy with me to Facebook. It is purely because of what you said. After I announced I was going to stop, other members here, Norm primarily, made me think about my reason for making the list. Duh. It was to share, not to get some type personal affirmation out of it. It was to share the music. The musicians are happy that I share the music. Their audiences are happy I share the music.
And I have just now decided that despite your statistics and despite your passive aggressive attitude, if I feel like saying something, I shall. If I feel like sharing some information, I shall. If I feel like asking for help on something, I shall.
(but it won't be as lengthy as this, I promise).
And to Bob -- I do like to include TaroPatch members on the Mele Monday list. I have always included you every time you put up a video. Your request to include notation as to who was a TP member was duly noted and when I knew, I put notation as to such. Your comment about you didn't have interest in watching the professional musicians did indeed get under my skin. Reason being is that it seemed like you wanted me to customize the list to Bob's interests, not to a broad group of interested listeners. If that was not what you were intimating, then I sincerely apologize.
The format for the Mele Monday will be a You Tube playlist. It will consist of videos which I found interest in and which I believe other people will enjoy. Just like a radio show or a TV show, if it is not something you like, there is an off button. Plain and simple. |
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2011 : 2:33:50 PM
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Wanda, I've always appreciated the way you kept discussions going, rather than thinking you were dominating the threads. I, at least, lose interest fairly quickly when so few people are posting, and am greatful when someone puts in their two cents.
I put up sixteen posts a day, not week, on some sites, and all it does is invigorate the discussion- encouraging, not discouraging, those with other viewpoints to respond.
So in my eyes, the "solution" to any appearance that a few people are dominating the posts, if a solution is perceived as being needed, is not for those people to post less, but for the rest of us to post more. I know I would enjoy the patch much more if this were the case! |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2011 : 3:20:56 PM
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One of the things I learned in statistics is that 20% of the whatever creates 80% of the other thing, good or bad. Such as 20% of the students get 80% of the scholarship money. Or 20% of the welders will create 80% of the defects or perhaps 20% of the people will provide 8-0% of donations to a charity, or perhaps 20% of the members of an on-line forum will create 80% of the posts.
Remember, Chris, the thread about posting in pidgin? That used to have a kajillion posts. It was a fun thread, the locals could talk the way they are used to talking, it gave a freedom to say things in a quite poetic way, it resulted in posts that were non-controversial, etc. Until someone whined about posting in pidgin. One stinkin' thread out of a whoppin' boat load. We would get 5 or 6 or more posts every evening on that one. You know why it faded, some people felt "left out". But it was all out the locals sasying if you get upset about us posting in pidgin, well come here and wala`au and you going learn pidgin. And have fun, too. And learn stuff, too. Jeez, there were some masterpieces there, tomes written by Menpachi. He doesn't post anymore. You notice that? He was a most valuable member of this forum. He is a well-schooled man with an amazing academic background. he is from Big Island, living in Idaho far, far away from Hawaiian culture. This was his link to home in a fun and relaxing way. He is a very accomplished ki ho`alu player, one who malamas traditional music. He writes extremely well, and is a fantastic story teller. And just like Hawaiian mele has kaona, there was always a hidden meaning in his stories. But this forum is all the worse for chasing him away. Braddah Ed nomo post. Oh how he could make me laugh. Duke nomo post. Him and Ed together could make you just about shishi you panties. And on and on. Those are the people who shared their mana`o and talents and had fun doing it and thusly made it fun for all the rest of us. This beautiful music is nothing if it turns everyone into grouchy grumps or high makamaka guitar players who try soak up the musical skills and mana of Hawaiian musicians but then look down their noses at the "regular" people.
I want the old TaroPatch back. The friendly one. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2011 : 5:06:28 PM
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In my non-musician opinion, that pidgin thread was the best thing about the patch. People opened up there, showed themselves. And we all had fun. Then, as far as I could make out, issues came up in other forums and some of the most entertaining posters deleted their posts and left.
Duke, I, and others have tried to restart the thread, but too many people have abandoned the lo'i and like my farm in Waipi'o, the energy is gone and nothing grows from the feeble attempts to start it up again.
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salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2011 : 06:01:34 AM
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Aloha Wanda
And I mean that.
Please do not change what you do based on me. I am insignificant. It was never my intent to try and change what you do. That is not my intent now.
Having met you and observed you in person and via Taropatch, facebook, youtube, I know that you are a good person and that you truly are doing things you believe to be good and true.
With this, my last post on Taropatch, I do want to tell you that it is obvious to everyone that you love this music, this culture, this people, this forum. No one doubts that.
I would only point out one thing. And this is only my opinion and only given because I also care about the music and, although you probably don't see it, you. You may be, in your extreme love and wish to perpetuate that which you love.. you may be smothering that very thing. Or you may not be.. As I said, it is only my opinion and I know so little about online communities and their welfare.
I do know that Hawaiian music, culture and its perpetuation, especially on the mainland, are better off than before you fell in love with them. Please keep spreading the word.
Good luck to you.
Dave |
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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2011 : 10:43:52 AM
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I have never read this book. Since I now have a Kindle, maybe I'll download me a copy.
The following is copied and pasted in part from www.wkikpedia.org
"How to Win Friends and Influence People" is one of the first bestselling self-help books ever published. Written by Dale Carnegie and first published in 1936, it has sold 15 million copies world-wide.
The book has six major sections. The core principles of each section are quoted below.
Fundamental Techniques in Handling People
1 Don't criticize, condemn, or complain.
2 Give honest and sincere appreciation.
3 Arouse in the other person an eager want.
Six Ways to Make People Like You
1 Become genuinely interested in other people.
2 Smile.
3 Remember that a person's name is, to that person, the sweetest and most important sound in any language.
4 Be a good listener. Encourage others to talk about themselves.
5 Talk in terms of the other person's interest.
6 Make the other person feel important – and do it sincerely.
Twelve Ways to Win People to Your Way of Thinking
1 The only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it.
2 Show respect for the other person's opinions. Never say "You're Wrong."
3 If you're wrong, admit it quickly and emphatically.
4 Begin in a friendly way.
5 Start with questions to which the other person will answer yes.
6 Let the other person do a great deal of the talking.
7 Let the other person feel the idea is his or hers.
8 Try honestly to see things from the other person's point of view.
9 Be sympathetic with the other person's ideas and desires.
10 Appeal to the nobler motives.
11 Dramatize your ideas.
12 Throw down a challenge.
Be a Leader: How to Change People Without Giving Offense or Arousing Resentment
1 Begin with praise and honest appreciation.
2 Call attention to people's mistakes indirectly.
3 Talk about your own mistakes before criticizing the other person.
4 Ask questions instead of giving direct orders.
5 Let the other person save face.
6 Praise every improvement.
7 Give the other person a fine reputation to live up to.
8 Use encouragement. Make the fault seem easy to correct.
9 Make the other person happy about doing what you suggest.
Letters That Produced Miraculous Results
This section was included in the original 1936 edition but omitted from the revised 1981 edition.
In this chapter, notably the shortest in the book, Carnegie analyzes two letters and describes how to appeal to someone's vanity with the term "do me a favor" as opposed to directly asking for something which does not offer the same feeling of importance to the recipient of the request.
Seven Rules For Making Your Home Life Happier
This section was included in the original 1936 edition but omitted from the revised 1981 edition.
1 Don't nag.
2 Don't try to make your partner over.
3 Don't criticize.
4 Give honest appreciation.
5 Pay little attentions.
6 Be courteous.
7 Read a good book on the sexual side of marriage.
That very last point may not necessarily apply here at Taropatch, but some of the others might. Or not.
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"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2011 : 4:13:30 PM
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I am apologizing to Bob for a comment I made about people may trip over his videos or not. He felt I was being vindictive to him and might not include his videos on the playlists because he spoke out honestly to me. That was not the case at all. I meanted that if I did not put the list on TaroPatch, some people might not find his videos or might not even search them out. I also meant that I do not include all videos just because someone is a TaroPatch member, or even if someone is "famous". I include videos that I find interesting, touching, or otherwise attract MY sensibilities. Since I am the one who compiles the list, it is my prerogative as to what that list consists of.
Once again, Bob, please accept my apologies for any misunderstanding. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 10/29/2011 05:00:47 AM |
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Pau Mele Monday on TaroPatch
