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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
 Posted - 10/05/2012 : 04:07:37 AM
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| Alika, check out Gabby's version of "Lei Nani". The vamp is influenced by "Never On A Sunday". Once a musician hears a tune, it becomes a part of them. |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2012 : 07:23:11 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck
Once a musician hears a tune, it becomes a part of them.
Often despite our best efforts to drive it out. |
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Mike Anderson
Akahai
Canada
84 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2012 : 06:52:24 AM
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The haole culture has a problem: neophilia, and it infects the whole world, because haole culture represents prosperity. The desperate NEED to have the new in our faces all the time. Childish boredom and lack of focus. Combine that with the equally childish "it's all about ME!" that infects our culture, and you have this "everyone can be a successful artist" crap that has resulted in reality TV and other entertainment phenomena that have as much to do with genuine talent, creativity, and artistic drive as a Slap-Chop commercial. NOT everyone is an artist - or at least one that needs to be heard publicly; that attitude is the reason cultures become homogenized in a desperate attempt to obtain commercial success by playing the way the dominant (haole) culture plays; it is the reason we are inundated with homogeneous CRAP on TV and the airwaves and iTunes and the bloody grocery store.
To sit there and say that adhering to tradition or playing an "outdated" style is "museum stuff" is beyond insulting. Really? You're THAT GOOD that everyone (or anyone) needs to hear your "new" sound? I'll tell you who nailed it: Alika with that first post. Yes, I have seen "Celtic" music that is hard rock with bagpipes in my own city. And I played real Celtic music for years, and I'll tell you which audience I'd rather play for: the ones who are there for the REAL DEAL, not pop-schlock calling itself Celtic. Cultural homogeneity is NOT cool, not even if it puts a dollar in your pocket. If that's all it's about, go find another career because we already have a gross superfluity of bands like that. What we DON'T have is people who give a damn about preserving what's worth preserving, and expanding on that.
You know a good way to express yourself without mutating music out of recognition and calling it "creativity"? It's called improvisation. Learn it, use it. |
It's never too late to have a happy childhood! |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2012 : 07:44:42 AM
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There's a single "haole" culture? Whoda thunkit.
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gabriel
Aloha
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2012 : 8:40:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Anderson
The haole culture has a problem: neophilia, and it infects the whole world, because haole culture represents prosperity. The desperate NEED to have the new in our faces all the time. Childish boredom and lack of focus. Combine that with the equally childish "it's all about ME!" that infects our culture, and you have this "everyone can be a successful artist" crap that has resulted in reality TV and other entertainment phenomena that have as much to do with genuine talent, creativity, and artistic drive as a Slap-Chop commercial. NOT everyone is an artist - or at least one that needs to be heard publicly; that attitude is the reason cultures become homogenized in a desperate attempt to obtain commercial success by playing the way the dominant (haole) culture plays; it is the reason we are inundated with homogeneous CRAP on TV and the airwaves and iTunes and the bloody grocery store.
To sit there and say that adhering to tradition or playing an "outdated" style is "museum stuff" is beyond insulting. Really? You're THAT GOOD that everyone (or anyone) needs to hear your "new" sound? I'll tell you who nailed it: Alika with that first post. Yes, I have seen "Celtic" music that is hard rock with bagpipes in my own city. And I played real Celtic music for years, and I'll tell you which audience I'd rather play for: the ones who are there for the REAL DEAL, not pop-schlock calling itself Celtic. Cultural homogeneity is NOT cool, not even if it puts a dollar in your pocket. If that's all it's about, go find another career because we already have a gross superfluity of bands like that. What we DON'T have is people who give a damn about preserving what's worth preserving, and expanding on that.
You know a good way to express yourself without mutating music out of recognition and calling it "creativity"? It's called improvisation. Learn it, use it.
reverse racism dude thanks for the "lesson" |
Maui No Ka O'i |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2012 : 04:00:12 AM
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My Dad told me, "Play clean and don't hurt yourself."
Novelty, aka, creativity, is a part of the process within the tradition. Merle Travis asked about the difference of playing into a mic as opposed to having a mic built into the instrument. (Bluegrassers, take note).
When I saw my Swedish Grandmother slack the strings on her guitar (ya, Europe has alt tunings, also), I said, "You're not supposed to do that!"
She told me they did it to make it easier to play in some keys.
Some Nordic musicians around Seattle look down on the accordion as being too modern without realizing that the fiddle is an import from Asia.
There is nothing new under the sun, except for the audience.
African rhythms and harmonies along with hymns and Sicilian brass bands became the fountain of Jazz in New Orleans.
Fiddle and banjo tunes fitted to the form of the military march became Ragtime.
The diatonic button accordion took Europe out of modes to major keys. The resulting polkas, waltzes, etc (again set to the patterns of military marches) swept Europe as scandalous dance crazes.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
We can't control others, we can barely control ourselves. |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2012 : 10:11:41 AM
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| Innovation is part of culture. English speaking North America has taken the lead in marketing innovations, many times at the expense of what has gone on before. At best, all human endeavors are 2 edged swords. Only individuals can be appreciative, only individuals learn lessons. We are all plumbing the depths of our own ignorance. |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2012 : 2:50:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck
Innovation is part of culture. English speaking North America has taken the lead in marketing innovations, many times at the expense of what has gone on before. At best, all human endeavors are 2 edged swords. Only individuals can be appreciative, only individuals learn lessons. We are all plumbing the depths of our own ignorance.
I agree. Improvisation is the creation of new ideas (if you do it well) out of old forms. Without innovation, there is no creativity in the music. |
keaka |
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Bobbolink
Aloha
26 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2012 : 1:49:56 PM
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I'm going to put in .02 worth, which I have no right to do, since I am not part of the culture. However, I have a deep respect for the culture, and wince (and more) when I see film clips of the 50s, and what was called "hula" then. That has nothing to do with "innovation".... it has to do with R-E-S-P-E-C-T.
I am reminded of what Uncle George Naope said so long ago: "In `auana, you can stand on your head for all I care. But with Kahiko... keep it traditional."
Again, R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Respect for culture, respect for tradition, respect for the sensitivity of people who have lost their (sovereign) nation.
I will go further, and say that hula `auana and modern Hawai`ian mele also need to be treated with respect. Yes,the boundaries are wider, but respect and common courtesy will still draw boundaries of sensitivity. Innovation in music is fine, but it can be done without dissing a culture. If travelers come to the islands without that desire to hear the traditional, and the true heart of those who are rooted in the islands, then let them hear the music that they crave, but it doesn't have to be polluted with a dabble of island flavor which honors neither side of the equation.
End of rant. Please excuse my stepping out of line. I have a deep reverence for them music and musicians who work so hard to express the true Hawai`ian tradition and culture. Some things don't need to be compromised, and shouldn't be.
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sirduke58
`Olu`olu
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2012 : 03:08:41 AM
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| +1 to your comment Bobolink!!! |
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nakii
Aloha
29 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2013 : 6:59:22 PM
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THERE ARE LESS AND LESS OF US "OLDER FOLKS" HERE ON THE MAINLAND TRYING TO PASS ON THE "SIMPLE" WAYS WE LEARNED FROM OUR OHANA WHO HAD PASSED SONGS ALREADY THRU SEVERAL GENERATIONS GOING BACK TO THE EARLY 1900'S.WE APPRECIATE THE SEVERAL UKULELE GROUPS IN PARTICULAR WHO HAVE BEEN WILLING TO LEARN THE OLDER WAYS OF PLAYING TRADITIONAL SONGS AND LEARN SOME MELE WITH "OLELO HAWAII"---HAWAIIAN LYRICS. MANY OF THESE FOLKS ARE NOT REAL YOUNG EITHER OR MAYBE EVEN "HAWAIIAN"(WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF THAT IS--GENETICALLY OR AT HEART?).
A PROBLEM HERE ON THE MAINLAND IS THAT NOT MANY CHILDREN AND TEENS HAVE DEEP HAWAIIAN CULTURAL ROOTS, AND THOSE WHO COME FOR COLLEGE FROM HAWAII LEAVE AGAIN.HAWAIIAN ENTERTAINMENT CONTAINS LESS AND LESS HAWAIIAN CONTENT PRIMARILY DUE TO ECONOMICS.
THIS YEAR WHEN WE WENT HOME TO NANAKULI WE WENT TO A CHARTER SCHOOL END OF YEAR CELEBRATION WHERE 8 GRADES OF KEIKI SPOKE SANG PLAYED AND DANCED TRADITIONAL HAWAIIAN MELE IN A 2 1/2 HOUR PROGRAM THAT DEMONSTRATES THE CULTURE LIVES NOW AND WILL CONTINUE THERE..ON THE STRENGTH OF THE CHILDREN AND THEIR SUPPORTING FAMILY AND FRIENDS.
SOMETIMES I JOKE ABOUT "CAZIMEROING" A SONG....BUT THEY AND OTHERS LIKE THEM HAVE CERTAINLY EARNED THE RIGHT TO INFLUENCE THE NECESSARY EVOLUTION OF THE CULTURE. AND THIS IS NOT TO SAY NOBODY LESS THAN THEM SHOULD EXPERIMENT AND DEVELOP THEIR OWN TECHNIQUES ETC,HOWEVER IT WOULD BE PROPERLY RESPECTFUL TO STUDY AND APPRECIATE THE ORIGINS OF HAWAIIAN LANGUAGE MUSIC AS A FIRM FOUNDATION FOR BORROWING IT AND MODIFYING IT. RESPECT IS GENERALLY HUGELY APPRECIATED BY COMPOSERS AND ESTABLISHED (WELL KNOWN) HAWAIIAN MUSICIANS.IT JUST "FEELS" INHERENTLY WRONG TO CHANGE ANYTHING THAT OUR QUEEN AND THOSE OF HER HEART COMPOSED FOR THEIR OWN VERY SPECIAL REASONS.WE SO APPRECIATE ALL OF YOU WHO CARE ENOUGH TO ASK AND COMMENT ON THESE PAGES AND FOR TARO PATCH FOR PROVIDING THEM. MALAMA PONO , KE AKUA PU.. PLAY ON!!!...NAKI'I HAWAIIAN MUSIC SEQUIM.. 1HEART
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Bobbolink
Aloha
26 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2013 : 08:16:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck
African rhythms and harmonies along with hymns and Sicilian brass bands became the fountain of Jazz in New Orleans.
You have a very well-worded post, with much thought.
I would like to add my .02 to the part I quoted. (Given that I don't have much right to do so, as the haole I am...)
What you have said above is soooo true, and it has added richness to the musical heritage in this country.
However, there is one difference.... OK, make that two differences. ^_^ African music still exists, which is very important, because there are musicians to strive to keep it that way.
Plus, the US prides itself on the "melting pot" mentality, and we know the downsides of that. There is some danger of the Hawai`ian culture being lost. That danger is still there. I cringe when I hear someone who I respected for perpetuating the culture give in to the "melting pot" syndrome. That happened for me recently, and I am very disappointed (and a bit frightened) of what I heard.
Again, not being of the culture, I don't have much ground to stand on in voicing my opinion. I just know how much the traditions have enriched my life, and I would grieve if that is lost. |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2013 : 07:58:43 AM
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Cultures are dynamic, particularly cultures that interact with other cultures, which means almost all of them. Imagine a society where, say, music or poetry remains unchanged, generation after generation. What would that culture be like? What material and social forces would keep things exactly the same over long periods? I'm not saying such a situation is good or bad--but I believe it to be fairly unusual. And a society that maintains old forms completely unchanged after contact with other cultures generally has to wall those forms off in order to do so. Every culture that is not hermetic is a melting pot. It seems to be what humans do. We marry each other, copy each other's songs, introduce versions of their spices and recipes, and generally mix and match and swap and adapt. Preserving the past becomes a complex, often curatorial activity. And any moment after contact with the people from over the hill or the other side of the water can become something worth preserving. Slack key is itself a hybrid form, and a listen to the Hana Ola "History of Slack Key Guitar" CD shows not only a range but a development of styles, as different musical influences worked their way into the practice of individual players.
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nakii
Aloha
29 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 10:59:07 AM
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mahalo for your mana'o (thoughts)
coincidentally we just celebrated the life of uncle sam awa'a here in washington.his wife repeatedly stressed how important it had been to him, and now her,that the purest roots of what he did every day of his life should be preserved. and this was with their HAWAIIAN perception that anyone is free to do whatever they like in the way that makes them happy. Maybe the leaves of the tree 'need to remember ' what keeps the tree alive...the roots. sam played the simplest forms of slack key, straight from his heart in his gentle relaxed but vibrant way, as it was passed to him and learned during his many over 70 years.and he was by blood, "philosophy" and lifestyle 100% Hawaiian.
so you are always free to interpret culture in a way that satisfies your needs. just respect that there are those who see the need to separate our musical lives into categories of preservation, personal creation, education,venue appropriate performance etc.
to bobbolink.....i am not Hawaiian , my wife is, but i try my best to keep in mind the hawaiian word "pono" or appropriateness in all things Hawaiian.What is appropriate by Hawaiian standards is not necessarily parallel to other cultures practices.appreciate your thoughts.. don't apologize for who or what you are.your caring enough to try to understand and respect is what counts. malama pono, play from your heart , be humble, listen, learn and be happy! |
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sirduke58
`Olu`olu
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2013 : 2:48:30 PM
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| As in hula there's no reason we can't have both. There's kahiko & then there's auana. All I'm saying is you don't need to eradicate the traditional in order to have growth & change. Future generations should have the ways & means to experience where they came from before outside contact. It does not have to be either or. |
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