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Adam Troy
Akahai
Australia
58 Posts |
 Posted - 03/15/2013 : 10:31:47 PM
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How do you learn?
The guitar is probably the most popular instrument in the world. One reason is the fact that you can pick up three chords in half an hour, and accompany yourself singing a million songs. But we are not like that, are we? In the words of Mark Knopfler, we have chosen to make the instrument itself “cry or sing.” And on top of that personal challenge, we have chosen a fretless instrument which is not much easier to play well than the violin.
I think about this question a lot because I am self-taught. There are several different approaches, all of which have their strong points. Here is what I have done; it is a process that keeps developing as I have got a grip of different techniques.
I want to play Hawaiian Steel Guitar music from the 1900 to about 1950. There were a number of old-timers playing as late as the 1980s, but the development of the style had come to a halt in the 1950s as other forms of popular music captured the attention of youngsters and took over the music business.
When I hear a piece I like, I have this strong urge to find out what it is I like about it. Usually this turns out to be some shift or cadence in the chord progression. But to me, Melody is King. So, anyway, first I have to figure out the chord progression and I don’t mind buying the sheet music if it comes to that.
Once the chords are established, I can find where the beginning notes are on the neck of the guitar. After a lot of struggles trying to figure out complex arrangements, I started writing it out in TAB and found it pretty easy to do by trial and error, especially since the advent of slow-down software and TAB writing programs. But there is nothing wrong with buying TABs and there are a lot of good sources.
But there are those hard-asses who will tell you TABs ruin creativity. They are missing the point. It is how you use TABs that makes the difference. The use of written arrangements shows you how the greats did it, and by examining this you learn one hell of lot that is not going to just appear in your consciousness unless you are very gifted.
I cannot stress enough the importance of sitting down and tabbing arrangements yourself, but it is not the TABs alone that will help you on your way. It is only a step. Work with a chord chart for the piece. Play the chords in as many inversions as you can find on the neck. That way you will understand why these guys made the choices they did in creating their stunning recordings. As you become more familiar with the changes, the TAB takes a back-seat and you find yourself working within the harmonies of the piece even if you hark back, from time to time, to one of those delicious sections that caught your attention in the first place.
Ultimately, your fluidity with the chord structure will free you to develop your own ideas. That is quite an achievement, but originality is not the point in playing music. In fact originality can be greatly over-rated as any open-mic night will attest.
So, how do you learn? I would like to know.
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2013 : 05:53:49 AM
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| Tab, to me, is a necessary evil. It is a good way to learn a tune, but, IMHO, to make a song my own, I have to move beyond the tab. Otherwise, I end up sounding like the person who wrote the tab. (Of course, some of you may think that this is a good idea.) I learn by listening to the tune, figuring out the chords, then learning the melody line, as you have mentioned. This may, or may not, involve tabbing. Alan Akaka has me work off tab to learn a mele, more to force myself away from my ideosyncracies [sp?] and to push me further into Hawaiian steel. |
keaka |
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Adam Troy
Akahai
Australia
58 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2013 : 11:40:10 AM
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What I have found is that even when taking down a tab note for note by myself, it is pretty hard to create a replica performance. People think of tab as something one does like an old time player-piano. I use tab to see the dynamics of an arrangement laid out graphically because I think graphically. Having seen it, I move to progression based playing. My goal, if I live long enough, is to absorb the dynamics to the extent that I recognise pattern and intervals subconsciously. 
The most difficult part of writing tab is the timing, the pitches are easy. I think I have got pretty good at it, but ultimately it doesn't matter. Its the process. |
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TerryLiberty
Lokahi
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2013 : 2:00:43 PM
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Right now, at the neophyte stage I'm in, I tend to follow Tab by rote until I have a song down. With Ozzie's and Mark's DVD's I find the hints about fingering and other technical bits very helpful in the beginning. I usually divide the song into small phrases and practice each phrase very slowly, working toward good muscle memory. I permit myself more tempo as I get a phrase down.
After I have a few phrases, I'll put them together to work on smooth transitions and more commitment to memory. While I do this, I often augment the tab with a recording of the performance which I can pick apart and analyze using Sony Sound Studio or some other software. That way I know what it's supposed to sound like. Since I'm such a beginner, I work a long time on getting a smooth, nahenahe feel and worry about variations later.
As I'm able to play a whole song, I play it through as many times I can in half-hour sitting, slowly increasing tempo and detouring to work on phrases or parts that stop me or feel awkward. My main weaknesses right now are losing my place in a medium to long song and a tendency for muscle memory to totally derail unexpectedly leaving me wondering where I go next.
If I personalize anything I'll look for possible variations or additional "verses" to add with the hope that I'm bringing in ideas that are appropriate to the tradition and the original feel of the song.
It's an absorbing and addictive process and I find myself able to do it for hours on end. That is if the lawn doesn't need mowing or some other chore has been neglected... |
Terry
Olympia, WA
Forever a haumana |
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TerryLiberty
Lokahi
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2013 : 2:17:39 PM
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Chapter 2:
The interesting part is that I learn jazz pieces entirely differently.
Two underlying things are different. 1) I know the standard tuning fingerboard well and have a pretty good vocabulary of chords up and down the neck. I can find all the G# notes and their major and minor scales anywhere on the guitar.
With slack key, I haven't yet learned any of the tunings in this way. I could maybe find one C chord in taro patch and I could'n build a C7 by knowing the intervals if my life depended on it. 2) Since jazz is based so much on underlying chord structure, that's the first thing I learn. "If you don't know the changes, you can't blow on the tune." I study the chords and figure out where the harmony and the key centers go.
I guess this is the inside-out way of learning which comes from some musical knowledge. My slack key method is more outside-in and is based on a good deal of ignorance at this point. I'm hoping things become more inside-out as time goes on. In the meantime, it's beautiful stuff to study, listen to and attempt to play.
Mahalo for listening! |
Terry
Olympia, WA
Forever a haumana |
Edited by - TerryLiberty on 03/17/2013 2:17:57 PM |
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Konabob
`Olu`olu
USA
928 Posts |
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Adam Troy
Akahai
Australia
58 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2013 : 02:29:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by TerryLiberty
Chapter 2:
I guess this is the inside-out way of learning
Thanks for the reply. I don't think anyway is inside-out. I ask the question how do you learn so I can rip-off your ideas.
Konabob, its like real estate: location, location, location. The good musicians I run into don't know anything about Hawaiian music. I could try keeping up, but I don't want to play blues, rock, country, or folk. Even when they try to swing they end up rocking. |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2013 : 11:14:41 PM
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It has been a while, but this used to be the kind of question we would see several years ago on this site. As I was reading this thread I could not help but think about the annual winter pilgrimage that Slippery (Jack) and Thumbstruck (Kory) make to Kailua at the end of January. As Konabob said Faster way to learn: Hang out with good musicians, and try to keep up. Jack and Kory are both high level players who keep working at their art and are actively gigging with the local players here in Hawaii, who may or may not be working at a paying gig but love to play just the same.
Even at the age of seventy-six Slip is still taking the time to learn as much as he can about Hawaiian Steel and perfect his musicianship. Jack is a multi-instrumentalist; he can play guitar, piano, and banjo, taught at McCabes. When the rocket scientist thing wasn’t working out or he wasn’t teaching college students, he worked as a professional musician playing in a number of country bands or jazz combos.
As common sense goes, you have to learn a song before you can perform it. Although he may start out using Tab to learn a steel piece, Jack knows that he will eventually learn the arrangement, get the right feel, and then improvise upon the piece. Now, speaking strictly as a teacher, someone may teach you a song by rote or the teacher may use some form of nomenclature (as in tabs) to pass on the knowledge. It used to be that over time the written arrangement – as a document – had a better chance of being remembered. However, with the availability of smart phones, and small digital video cameras, the video documents can preserve the rote lessons easily. Regardless of the type of instruction, eventually, as you gain mastery over your instrument you will be able improvise throughout the piece.
Although he is not as old as Slip, Thumbstruck is also a multi-instrumentalist and a solid musician. He has played songs that stopped Oz and Cyril in their tracks. He owns his own small business, plays guitar, bass, accordion and piano, and wears shorts and lederhosen at gigs. What I have learned from Jack and Kory’s annual excellent adventure is that they are both extremely funny, quick studies, and excellent musicians.
Like so many of you seeking some form of musical nirvana, I too found that it does not matter so much that you get to the end of your journey – but that you have enjoyed the trip, made friends and had a lot of fun playing music and playing for the moment. There is wisdom behind those old sayings “there are many paths to the top of the mountain”, or “the journey may be more important than the destination.” I have been a student longer than I have been a teacher, and, for me, that is the way it is always going to be. Moreover, I have enjoyed most of it.
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Edited by - Peter Medeiros on 03/18/2013 11:19:45 PM |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2013 : 06:45:35 AM
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| Mahalo nui loa, Peter. You are too kind (and a great friend to boot). My motto is "There are only two kinds of music - good and bad - and I play 'em both!". For me, music is a never ending search which has taken me down many strange and wonderful paths. It is the act of learning and playing that keeps me going. I once asked the great pedal steel teacher, Jeff Newman, how to get good at pedal steel. He told me to go out and get a steady gig with a country band. You play the same 30 songs every night. After a few weeks you think "I'm tired of this. I'll try something different". If you screw up, you think "well, I'll never do THAT again", and you learn. As my dad always said "The more you do it, the better you get". So, my advice, like Konabob's, is to get out there and play with others. |
keaka |
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Konabob
`Olu`olu
USA
928 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2013 : 06:57:12 AM
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I have seen Jack in action at the Maui Steel Guitar Festival. He definitely hangs out with good musicians, and he definitely keeps up! I hope to meet the rest of you guys one day.
Another learning tool that Brittni Paiva told me worked for her. Make sure you have a large collection of music that you love, and pay attention when you listen to it. When she told me that, I realized that all those years that I was stuck in Colorado, my Hawaiian music collection was seeping into my brain, and it make it much easier to take up the steel when I finally did at 48. This is fortunate, because in 1998, there was no one in Kona willing to teach me, and the internet was of no use. So I just hung around the kupuna with their 'ukulele, and tried to keep up with them. They loved throwing new stuff at me and watching me sweat. It works well for me, and fortunately, I have been able to hook up with a lot of talented folks here in the islands. The journey has been fascinating for me, and it seems to get more and more exciting and yet more relaxed at the same time.
Some people learn with their eyes and by thinking things through. Sadly, I lack that talent, and I get bored easily when I have to think my way through a song. It is far easier for me to learn through osmosis.
Because the steel is a lead instrument, We are often put in situations where we are asked to take a pa'ani on a song that we have never heard before. Ouch!
But by paying attention - and having faith in your fingers, by the third verse, one can generally pull off something that makes the crowd happy. What a thrill!
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Konabob's Walkingbass - http://www.konawalkingbass.com
Taropatch Steel - http://www.konaweb.com/konabob/
YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Konabob2+Walkingbass |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2013 : 07:15:25 AM
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Konabob is right about being able to pa'ani by the 3rd verse, usually the pattern is fixed in the noggin by then. I tell guys I've taught that when practicing, there are no real mistakes - if you hit a wrong note, you needed to know where that note was, anyway. We're learning the instrument, not just a tune.
BTW, Peter, I can only find chords on the piano, my kordeen is diatonic (come-to-me-go-from-me like a mouth harp, thus in German a "harmonika").
As I was learning ki ho'alu, my kumu had me play vamps for over 3 weeks,- that was all. "Can play any kine, 'long as it fit. Nodda one, nodda one, nodda one......" I couldn't repeat a vamp, just continue making them up. It was a great way to learn the fret board in taropatch.
Hanging out with great musicians is key. "The one-eyed man is king in the land of the blind." and "A big fish in a small pond." shows that one must work to find a good circle of friends. I had a bunch of friends that weren't into the kinds of music I liked (they were content with what was marketed to them and thought I was odd). I just finally had to get new friends. It was well worth the effort! |
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Konabob
`Olu`olu
USA
928 Posts |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2013 : 09:34:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Konabob
... They loved throwing new stuff at me and watching me sweat.
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... We are often put in situations where we are asked to take a pa'ani on a song that we have never heard before.
That's something that also shows that they respect your desire to get better, so they'll trust you to take their "invitation" to leave your comfort zone. As a beginning player (NOT referring to KonaBob or Keaka or Kory with that term - rather, to myself), no matter how scary it is, it's an honor when one of the learned kupuna gives you that nod. A nice level to reach on your journeys.
I suspect it never stops being scary - but I still have a lo-o-o-o-ong way to go to find out. |
Edited by - Retro on 03/19/2013 09:35:45 AM |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2013 : 12:19:45 PM
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| So right, Retro. One of the finest complements came to me from George Kuo last January, who, after he asked me who I was learning from and I replied Alan Akaka, said "He's taught you well". I was floored. It is indeed a long road to mastery, and I'm plugging my way along it. I owe so much to those who have put up with me as I learn, especially how to think and behave Hawaiian. |
keaka |
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Adam Troy
Akahai
Australia
58 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2013 : 1:40:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck
I tell guys I've taught that when practicing, there are no real mistakes - if you hit a wrong note, you needed to know where that note was, anyway.
This is no wise crack. It is a point well worth considering while playing.
But when it comes to the use of "osmosis," of course we are indulging in metaphor. There is a real mental process at work.
If a novice where to look at this thread, I would suggest that while learning there favourite piece in a linear fashion, they should examine the chord progression and understand how the harmonies within the chords work. For example, an augumented chord has a sharp 5th. You have to know how chords are built to improvise.
Accompanying this exercise, and just for starters, one should work the neck, two strings at a time, considering where those two notes fit in chords. With steel guitar and the violin family those two notes will be used for a ton of different chords.
Only by studying for hours did I manage to get As in college algebra, but when I got to Calculus I realised that those who were good at it actually thought differently to me. They were able to see mathematical patterns where I saw only numbers. It seemed there was something verging on autism with them. Or perhaps, I am not as intelligent as they. Sometimes these talents manifest themselves in music, and I am hugely envious of those who are so blessed.
Unfortunately, I can only see the patterns by the use of conscious thought, but I know I am not alone.
All tips taken seriously. |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2013 : 2:14:12 PM
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| Everyone perceives and responds to "reality" in their own way. "Style is based on limitation."-John Hartford. If everyone played just guitar, who'd play steel? One of the joys in jamming with others is to hear the differences. |
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How Do You Learn?
