| Author |
 Topic  |
|
manawainui
Aloha
USA
4 Posts |
 Posted - 05/08/2013 : 2:36:40 PM
|
Aloha Taropatch members,
I am seeking advice on slack-key guitar for a college class project. As the final project for a technical communication class, I am creating a 5-10 page sample of a “how-to” written guide on playing slack key. The theoretical audience would be players who at least know a little about the guitar, perhaps playing a year or two.
Based on my own understanding of slack-key and email discussions with Cindy Combs and George Kahumoku, it will explain techniques such as alternating bass, hammer-on and pull-offs, harmonics and how they are used in slack key, with examples. I will probably limit it to just the Taro Patch tuning to keep it simple.
So I wanted to ask the members here for feedback, things like what helped you out when first learning slack key, or what you learned later that you wished you had known earlier. Basically any advice that you think describes the techniques, mindset, or anything else that would be good for a beginner to the style.
|
|
|
Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2013 : 3:07:00 PM
|
Brada,
I can see you put a lot of thought in to this. Let's see, this is finals week and your us asking now? |
 |
|
|
ukrazy
Akahai
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 06:58:49 AM
|
I was listening to slack key long before actually playing it. It's not a passing guitar style, but more of a lifestyle. The only way I can describe it for myself is "Feeling Aloha". I wish I had started playing long ago. Especially when I lived on O'ahu.
I started out with Ozzie's book. You have to learn some basic techniques to get that slack key sound. From there your own style will develope on it's own. Some people stick to learning intramental pieces from tab, or better yet, from someone else. Youtube is a pretty good resourse. Workshops and music camps help a lot, especially for beginners.
My own style goes back to the earliest days when slack key was primarily used to back up vocals. I like to explore older tunes, many of which were originally chants. Learning lyrics, and translations get as much attention as the guitar playing. Hidden meanings add to the exploration.
Slack key is tough to put on paper. When I try to describe it to someone, after telling them the history of slack key, I usually have to play it for them. I can't put it in words. |
|
|
|
manawainui
Aloha
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 08:22:17 AM
|
I forgot to add, this assignment should use primary sources. That is why I am seeking advice from actual players and avoiding taking information from already published instructional material.
I am not looking for anyone to write the paper for me. I feel that I understand the style and how to write about it, but it is easy to get tunnel vision. This is an opportunity to get supplemental information.
This is not an urgent, last-minute plea for help, despite the assumptions of Taropatch member Peter Medeiros. For those others that are interested in providing advice, thank you.
|
|
|
|
ukrazy
Akahai
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 10:24:56 AM
|
I'm not trying to sound rude, but Peter's book title says it all. http://www.slackkeybypetermed.com/index.html With a limit of 5-10 pages I'm not quite sure what you are asking.
Many things helped me along the way, and the end is no where in sight. Listening is probably the most important to me. Love of the style is probably second. After that, it takes some serious seat time with the guitar. |
|
|
|
Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 10:32:18 AM
|
Let me make this brief. I encourage the rest of the TP membership to help you and wish the best for you Manawai; it is a good group of individuals that I have come to know over the past ten years or so. I do have some experience in being a teacher for a long time – even reading and grading papers such as the one you will be turning in. The UH System’s spring semester started January 7. It ends with Commencement this Saturday.
My advice if you want to be successful in not just this class, but also all of the others that you will be taking is this, use a calendar, plan ahead and be thorough. That way after you have turned in your assignment you can rest assured that you did in fact do the best that you could. Ask yourself these questions Manawai. Does your paper meet all of the required criteria for the assignment? Look at your survey technique is it timely, is it verifiable, do you have the best resources available? If you can get all of this done ahead of the due date you will do well and get a good grade. Avoid the last minute paper like the plague; it will not be a true or accurate measure of you. Whether you are aware of it or not you’re an adult now, and the stakes are higher.
|
|
|
|
manawainui
Aloha
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 11:47:33 AM
|
Peter Medeiros, your assumptions and insinuations are as follows:
- That I am a UH student
- That I am doing this assignment at the last minute
- That I am unorganized
- That I am immature
Some of these assumptions are indisputably wrong. Some of these assumptions are open to opinions.
I had been looking forward to engaging with slack key players. I am a naturally reserved person, and this the first time I have ever participated in any Internet forum of any kind. Perhaps my request for advice lacks specificity and focus and thus it is too hard to answer. I apologize. |
Edited by - manawainui on 05/10/2013 12:06:20 AM |
|
|
|
ukrazy
Akahai
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 12:46:26 PM
|
| Manawainui. I think you have a good idea on a great subject. It's just hard (for me) to give the answers you are looking for in a forum format. I truly hope you get some good feedback on here. By your profile, you are located at the source, in Hawaii. Slack key players, professional or otherwise, are really nice people. I would seek out players by going to concerts or just weekend jams. Have some specific questions and ask for an interview. If you don't play slack key, seek out some basic lessons and base your paper on your own expeience. |
|
|
|
Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 3:21:50 PM
|
Hi Manawai,
I apologize for deeply offending you. I have made mistakes before and I will make them again – it’s my nature, it’s human nature. This is the advice I will give to any student, doesn’t matter where they go to school.
I can see clearly why you became so defensive. Joining a new forum can be liberating or intimidating. You don’t know until you step forward what will happen. I am offering you an olive branch. You can accept it or decline it. The decision is yours.
Here is how I made my mistaken association with you and the University of Hawaii. I am at UH Manoa; I assumed (wrongly) that you were going to UH Maui Campus because you were in communications with George K. (who is at Maui Campus) and doing course work. My bad.
I admit I am jaded – I have been here over thirty years. During finals and mid terms I have heard some of the most creative excuses for bailing out of tests or being unable to complete assignments. If I had a little bit more information about your request for help, I would have responded differently – perhaps more favorably. But I didn’t and that is why we are at this point.
I implore you to stay with the group. You may have an opportunity to learn something new that you might not have otherwise. There are not as many Maui members or for that matter Hawaii members who are still active on TP. But, they are out there. You or someone just has to put out the word to Kanikapila. And hopefully, guys will start showing up. It is better to address people face to face, then you can see whether or not you can work together.
|
|
|
|
manawainui
Aloha
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2013 : 12:01:14 AM
|
Mr. Medeiros,
My choice of slack-key instruction as an assignment topic was made in the hope that by attempting to turn tacit knowledge into written lessons, I would gain insights and grow as a player. It is a relatively short class assignment and was not intended to be an authoritative, publication-ready instructional guide. The request on this site was not critical to completing the assignment. I viewed it as an opportunity to get additional opinions.
I admit that my initial post was not specific enough. I intended it to be the start of a discussion and left it open-ended. I did not want to put a box around what advice I wanted initially. I accept that this was too vague and did not allow for constructive advice.
You read my unfocused request and immediately identified me as a typical procrastinating student. I attempted to provide more context, and additionally explained that this was not a desperate, last-minute scramble to complete an assignment. You dismissed my response, smugly pointing out the UH academic schedule. You characterized me as a liar. You are correct that I was offended.
A site member sent me a personal message during our exchange to inform me that you are a respected member of the community. I am aware that currently within this community I am nobody. I showed up to the site as a newcomer and clumsily asked for advice in an unhelpful manner. It is obvious from the messages on this thread that it is not serving that purpose. I withdraw the request.
Outside of this electronic environment, I am a real person, not a representation of a lazy, irresponsible generation. I am just a player, not a well-known recording artist, author or respected teacher of slack key. But I am a father, husband and veteran. I am also hardworking and responsible, and strive to be honest. In the online classes I am taking to further my education, I take my studies seriously. With regard to slack key, I look forward to continuing to learn and grow as a player, with or without the assistance of a community.
|
Edited by - manawainui on 05/22/2013 7:34:16 PM |
|
|
|
Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2013 : 06:59:33 AM
|
If you can use an informant who is quite removed from the center of the tradition (up in Minnesota), here goes:
I started learning a little slack key when I'd been playing guitar for forty years, almost exclusively fingerstyle of the Piedmont/alternating-thumb kind. One of the first things I noticed was that, despite some technical right-hand similarities, the typical slack key pulse--say, what I heard in the playing of Ray Kane--was quite different from what I had managed to cop of the ragtimey feel of, say John Hurt or Gary Davis. Getting my right hand to produce *that* sound was not a process that yielded to any conscious practice regimen. I just kept at it until that right hand synched up with what my ears had been hearing.
I know that the best way to absorb a playing tradition is from practitioners, and I also know that many Hawaiian players of roughly my age (players now in their sixties) did learn in the traditional Hawaiian manner, by watching and listening to their elders, often family members. Those of us who lack that immediate connection and who started before the dissemination of video lessons and YouTube clips had to substitute lots of listening--just like the folkies of the sixties (wait, that's me as well) did with the blues before the old guys were rediscovered and put on the folk circuit and before guys like Stefan Grossman and Jerry Silverman and Happy Traum produced books of transcriptions.
I also had the good fortune to be in on some early mainland workshops and eventually to meet and even be tutored by some of my musical heroes, so there were some eyes-and-ears-on opportunities. But most of the nearly twenty years I've been pecking away at my slack key chops, I've been listening to recordings, occasionally working through tabs (or, to be honest, parts of tabs), and sitting on the sofa, trying to get what comes out of my fingers to sound less unlike what comes out of the stereo. I lack the discipline to work my way through a graduated method book, so even though I own almost every one ever printed, I tend to cherry-pick--to either choose a tune or arrangement that appeals to me or, more often, to look for a solution to a particular problem--a lick or bass run or fingering that lets me play something I've been having trouble with. That's the Way of the Lonely Sofa Picker. If I had other players to hang out with and steal stuff from, I'd be a lot farther along by now--that's how I learned to play swing. So we're back to learning from practitioners.
If I could magically change anything about my situation and history, it would be to somehow put me into contact with people who live and play inside the tradition--and, ideally, who could help me to get enough of the Hawaiian language into my head to make the words of the songs stick better. I would probably not have the chutzpah to sing in Hawaiian, but the words are the anchors for the melodies. (It's pretty much the same for the Great American Songbook repertory that is the basis for swing.)
So--immersion, connection, and persistence. Which makes it like acquiring any complex skill.
|
Edited by - Russell Letson on 05/10/2013 07:01:02 AM |
|
|
|
PearlCityBoy
Lokahi
USA
432 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2013 : 07:06:01 AM
|
Howzit and welcome Kawika (Manawainui). I am a slack key student/player originally from Oahu but now live on the mainland. I don’t know if you tried Taropatch’s search function to see related discussions on defining slack key. Here’s a 10 page thread from 2007 on “What is slack key?”: http://www.taropatch.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5545&whichpage=1&SearchTerms=What+is+slack+key%3F .
Regarding the Taropatch forum, I would echo Peter Medeiros’s “imploring” you to stay with the group (i.e., this forum). Don’t take things personally, particularly from those you’ve never even met in person. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinions, including you. Just try to be open minded, respectful and pono, which I think you have been.
Although I haven’t had much time to post in recent years, I do lurk regularly—other members do too, but they don’t admit it :). I’ve been involved in some “hot” Taropatch discussions in the past (this one is “minors” in controversy), and I’m as opinionated as the next guy, but I’ve also learned a lot from the other members. Probably the coolest thing about Taropatch is that I continue to meet in person (in Hawaii and here on the mainland) a lot of very talented and knowledgeable folks whom I first met online via Taropatch. There really is a lot of aloha here, so try it out for a while.
Aloha and good luck on your report,
Doug
P.S., here is one of my Taropatch postings from 2009 which may address part of your question:
quote:
________________________________________
Originally posted by salmonella
Interesting topic
It makes me wonder...
Led Kaapana and Mike Kaawa.. can't get much more hawaiian slack key than that,
Agreed, interesting topic. Led and Mike are awesome musicians and, as a pair, complement each other very well from both a guitar and vocal standpoint. I’ve seen Mike play live over the years and to me he seems to be playing in standard tuning, and I don’t recall him playing slack key (although for most of the songs it definitely sounds Hawaiian and it sounds great). To Mike’s and perhaps Milton Lau’s credit (the producer), on his “Kanikapila Live” album they don’t mention that Mike is playing slack key (probably because he isn’t).
tour the nation and world and release a CD with "12th street rag/sweet Georgia Brown" as the ending bring-the-house down number...(CD won an award as I recall)
Is this considered "nice guitar work but not Slack Key"?
Yes, in my opinion, I consider it “nice guitar work but not Slack Key.” I’ve seen Led play this song live on several occasions and it is a show stopper. The way he plays the song does not sound like slack key or Hawaiian to me, but definitely sounds like the charismatic entertainer and virtuoso guitarist that he is. Perhaps he's even playing in standard tuning (his fingers flew so fast I couldn't tell). I agree with Bruddah Duke that at a minimum, “If it is not Hawaiian, how can it be ki ho’alu?” If you played the song to someone without telling them the name of the song or who the artist was (i.e., sample the song "blind" like a blind taste test), would that person say it was Hawaiian or slack key? Would a kupuna say it was Hawaiian or slack key? I don’t think so. If Led released an album solely filled with non-Hawaiian songs and played them in a similar style as the way he played “12th Street Rag/Sweet Georgia Brown,” would the Grammy’s consider the album Hawaiian? I would hope not. Would the Hoku’s consider the album Hawaiian music and/or slack key? Anybody’s guess.
If so, more people are being exposed to this than will hear Makana this year or next in the context of slack key.
If people think “12th Street Rag/Sweet Georgia Brown” is slack key and/or Hawaiian music then that is very unfortunate because it highlights the confusion amongst the worldwide audience/players and contributes to the dilution of the slack key tradition, which for a local boy like me has a lot of cultural significance as a traditional Hawaiian folk art form. To me, slack key is not synonymous with playing “any kine way” in open or alternative tunings—there are tons of players all over the world playing alternative tunings. Slack key is also not synonymous with playing Hawaiian songs on a guitar or playing finger style songs in a nahenahe manner.
I am not an ethnomusicologist or professional musician so excuse my valiant attempt to articulate: To me, slack key guitar is a Hawaiian style of guitar playing supported by slack key characteristics (e.g., finger style vs. strumming, traditional tunings, Hawaiian sounding bass lines, slides, hammer-ons, pull-offs, push-offs, slurs, chimes, overtones, etc.) and associated Hawaiian phrasings (e.g., Hawaiian vamp structures). These characteristics and phrasings are what distinguish slack key from other forms of guitar playing, and give it the Hawaiian slack key sound. This is hard for me to explain, so in lieu of Professor Peter’s upcoming book, may I recommend reading the liner notes and listening to the Cord International album, “The History of Slack Key Guitar,” where one can hear and understand some of the foundation from which the slack key tradition is based.
I can't imagine finding fault with Ledward Kaapana for the music he chooses to play, wherever he chooses to play it. Why not afford others the same license?
An artist can choose whatever music or style he/she wants to play. Without singling anyone out in particular, I do find fault with portraying something as slack key (or Hawaiian or anything else for that matter) when it really isn’t. If something is not pono, it’s not pono, and perpetuating it by “affording everyone else with the same license” does not make it right.
Anyhow, just one slack key student’s point of view.
Aloha,
Doug |
Edited by - PearlCityBoy on 05/10/2013 07:08:19 AM |
|
|
|
Allen M Cary
Lokahi
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2013 : 12:33:58 PM
|
Hello Kawika,
My slack-key experience is remarkably similar to Russell's. I found the music in the late 70s via recordings of Keola Beamer and have been fortunate to be able to learn from him, both remotely and in person, as well as others including members of this forum. I can't add much to what Russell has said except to mention the concept of nahenahe. This is to me, an essential element of slack-key style that means (I think, anyway) a gentle flowing rhythm that is the essence of the hula. The grumpy old professor :-) once put it that hula is the fundamental aspect of slack-key, and that the rhythm of the sea is the essence of the hula. Uncle Peter, please forgive me if I have misinterpreted what you said, but this was how I interpreted it and applied it to my own playing.
As a disclaimer, I have to say I am a haole, with no bona fides as an arbiter of things Hawaiian, just a love for them and the music.
Aloha,
Allen |
|
|
|
sirduke58
`Olu`olu
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2013 : 09:59:27 AM
|
quote:
originally posted by manawainui
.........or what you learned later that you wished you had known earlier. Basically any advice that you think describes the techniques, mindset, or anything else that would be good for a beginner to the style.
Here's a couple of things:
1.) That there's no such thing as a "Slack key master" so you'll never become one.
Those not in the know believe slack key is a very simplistic genre of guitar playing. Probably because of the simple 3 to 4 note chord progression most ki ho'alu melodies are played over. Oz once told me of a very well respected Jazz guitarist who visited him thinking he was going to blow the socks off of Oz only to leave that afternoon with a new found respect for slack key. He struggled mightily with the alternating bass. Like Ozzie says "No way you can master slack key. Even if you think you master one tuning there's another & another and etc etc....I goin' always be one haumana of slack key"
2.) Even the best slack key artists are humble & encouraging.
Ki ho'alu players are a very positive based community. They are always encouraging, humble & willing to share. Once upon a time it was not so & ohana were very secretive about their techniques & tunings. Guess they learned their lesson when it almost died. When I first started learning 40 years ago it might have still been that way so this may not apply to me but now days even the elite slack key players are approachable for advice & tips. I wish I knew old time slack key players were approachable.
3.)Even if you suck at playing, playing from the heart is totally acceptable in the slack world.
I used to be ashamed to play in front of other guitarist, especially other slackers when I first started learning. This probably retarded my growth as a beginner. If I had only known there would probably have been a kinship with the other slacker who would have been happy i shared his/her interest. More so if he/she was Hawaiian like me.
4.)As for technique: a.) Pinches & b.) Slurs
Pinches are when you pluck a melody & bass note simultaneously. In my beginning stages I would omit the bass note when the melody got too intricate. I thought there was no way you could do both so it made sense to me that the melody note won out. Peter Moon was known for doing that so I thought it was acceptable. Pinches at the appropriate times allows you to keep the alternating bass line stay unbroken.
Slurs are what separates the advanced players from the elite players. In fact, there are many "elite" players that do not utilize the slurs. Slurs allow you to keep your alternating bass line unbroken when pinching is too difficult to execute. Sometimes it because the tempo or intricate melody line is too intense. Slurs allow you to play at break neck speeds without sounding choppy. They make you sound nahenahe even at a mile a minute.
5.)Playing 10 songs well is better than playing 30 songs so-so. So pay attention to detail, learn multiple variations. Great songs will probably keep evolving with you for as long as you play. Pay attention to detail & learn to express all the notes.
My 2 cents worth.
|
|
|
|
ukrazy
Akahai
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2013 : 11:20:12 AM
|
| #5 alone is worth a lot more that 2 cents. |
|
|
|
garson
Lokahi
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2013 : 7:09:01 PM
|
| Two more cents. You can't do slack key without knowing a lot of vamps. So you need 5 or 6 examples at different places on the neck. And you need to learn your slants (pairs of notes that make sixths or thirds) up and down the neck for each pair of strings in each tuning, (strings 1 and 3 especially, but also 2 and 3, and 1 and 2). |
Jim Garson |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Advice on slack-key for class assignment
