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awihi
Aloha
USA
4 Posts |
 Posted - 01/30/2007 : 11:47:36 AM
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I have a new Kamaka concert ukulele on which I'd like to substitute a low G string. When I bought the instrument the dealer said that it was readily possible to do this and even gave me a set of strings with a low G included. However, the metal wound nylon string is too thick to fit into the narrow groove on the bridge of the ukulele. Would anyone be able to advise on this topic? Must it be taken to a luthier to make a modification or is it something I can do myself fairly easily with a sharp knife or other tool? In other words, I'm sure I could get it to fit by some inventive means but I'd much prefer to do it the right way, if there is one. Thanks.
David
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2007 : 12:08:19 PM
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Hi Awihi,
Do you mean the "nut" (up by the headstock) instead of the bridge? Generally a bridge doesn't have slots.
The cheap way to do it is to go to a welding store and buy a tip cleaning set for an acetylene torch. This is made up of a bunch of wires of different diameters that have been machined to be like little files. Just choose the next size up from the width of the notch that is there and rub it back into the notch to make it bigger. If it needs to be wider, use the next wider file. You don't want to make it much deeper than it is, just wider.
The better way is to take it to a guitar shop and have them widen the notch and smooth it out using the tool made for the job. If there are any sharp edges exposed, it can cut into the string and cause it to break in short order.
Congratulations on the new uke.
Jesse Tinsley |
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awihi
Aloha
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2007 : 1:02:12 PM
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Hi Jesse,
Thanks for the quick and obviously very knowledgable response. I'm sure I'm explaining it wrong but the grooves - or maybe it's better to describe them as "slots" (I'm sure they have a real neame but I don't know it) - actually are on the bridge. But since you mention it - I wasn't able to get far enough along on the project to notice and I didn't even think of it until you mentioned it but it looks as though the groove on the nut will indeed also have to be widened. I wonder why Kamaka wouldn't simply make the instrument able to accomdate the wider the string in the first place. They're bound to know that a lot of owners are going to want to make the substitution. In any case, I really appreciate the excellent advice. Thanks again.
David |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2007 : 2:34:17 PM
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E Awihi,
I think grooves aren't made wider than the string in use because you can get a phantom buzzing from the string moving around.
Perhaps the "slot" you mean are the place where the strings tie on? or are pegged on?
Jesse Tinsley |
Edited by - hapakid on 01/30/2007 2:38:05 PM |
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awihi
Aloha
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2007 : 3:07:29 PM
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Exactly - the strings pass through this little groove, or slot or something, which keeps the knot from pulling through. Your explanation about buzzing makes perfect sense. So, in other words, if I widen (what I call) the groove I run the risk of having this buzzing if I or my heirs (well, I'm sure it's going to be a family heirloom) should ever decide to go back to a high (or standard - not sure what it's called)G string? It's something to think about - but mahalo nui for helping me to see the logic in not making all ukuleles "Low G Ready". 
David |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2007 : 3:45:20 PM
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If you have the kind of bridge where the string ties on, then you just need the right size drill bit, which you may be able to work into the hole by hand and slightly enlarge the hole without a drill. You may be able to buy a super long bit, and some hobby shops sell a kind of skinny metal tube (like the metal ink refill in a ballpoint pen) into which you can glue a drill bit to make it long enough to go across the soundboard and into the hole.
I've put low G strings on four of my ukes and except for one, none needed a wider nut slot. On those three, the string just squeezed into the slot already there. I've used Worth's on mine, which have an unwound G string.
Jesse Tinsley |
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Absolute
Lokahi
275 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2007 : 03:49:18 AM
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STOPPPPP!!!!
If you widen the grooves on the nut or any bridge (however unusual that may be) that your ukulele has, you are going to PERMANENTLY alter the instrument. If you go back to a smaller diameter "G" string for a standard string set, you run a very real risk of finding yourself dealing with a buzzing standard sized "G" string, because its LOOSE in the slot (of either the NUT OR the BRIDGE)! I've considered a low G conversion, but have tended to recognize that it could require the purchase of a cheap ukulele to go along with it. Those welder tip cleaners can work (I have a set I bought to create the nuts of my two ukuleles), but it's not an effort for the faint hearted.
I'd do two things, AFTER you decide whether or not you want a permanent conversion:
1. Leave a message with the Ukulele Builder's Guild of Hawaii on their board at:
www.ukuleleguild.org .
2. Get in touch with the manufacturer of the string set and ask what they recommend.
IF you are only having to alter the NUT, it MAY BE that the NUT on your ukulele can be easily replaced with one modified to fit the low G string. The guys at UGH may be able to tell you where to get a replacement NUT for your ukulele. The FOOT of the ukulele is where the strings are usually tied on. Some ukulele's may have specially sized slots down there. I don't know what your case is in that regard. If you have to alter the nut and the foot, I'd be posting and URGENT message with the group at the UGH site unless I wanted to risk ruining my ukulele by making changes that I'd never previously attempted. (Do you LIKE, I mean REALLY LIKE, buzzing strings? If you make the slots too wide for a string and pluck with enough force, you'll have them, I GUARANTEE!) |
Thank you. |
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Absolute
Lokahi
275 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2007 : 08:07:07 AM
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I apologize if I came on too strong in that last post. I saw the name of the thread and didn't want to waste time reading it all before voicing the warning. If I were you, rather than experiment with an $800 ukulele, I'd practice my "low G" string set alterations on something more disposable, like:
http://www.wwbw.com/Baja-Baja-soprano-ukulele-i732861.music .
(Of course, you may be one of those Hawaiian residents who can treat nice 'ukus as "disposable".) |
Thank you. |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2007 : 08:20:40 AM
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Absolute, your warnings are well-taken. As I said, enlarging the nut slot may not be necessary, though it may be necessary to slightly widen the slot in the bridge. This may be done with a razor blade if it is the kind of bridge with a slot system where the string is meant to jam into a slot and held with a knot. But the slot only needs to be widened at the opening.
Although you don't want to ruin the nut that came with your uke, making a new nut is not a complex procedure and a player may want to have two nuts available for string changes. I'd also suggest posting questions on www.hanalima.com, the uke building forum.
Jesse Tinsley |
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awihi
Aloha
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2007 : 09:35:59 AM
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Holy cow! Looks like I came to the right place for expert advice. You guys are astonishing. You've brought me from zero to sixty in less than a day. Thanks so much for the thorough analysis including pros and cons, various options, useful links and resources, and excellent all-around advice. I do own some less expensive concert and tenor ukes and will do a practice run on one of those, using the methods and tools you've recommended, both to see if I can do it without botching the job and also to see if I really, really do want a low "G".
Thanks again - you're both great.
David |
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Absolute
Lokahi
275 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2007 : 5:50:20 PM
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A few final comments:
1. Get a spare set of welding pipe tip cleaners. The small diameter files are most useful for small diameter string slots, but break easily. (They're cheap; a few dollars a set on the high end from a welding supply store.)
2. AVOID RAZOR blades unless you want to risk a trip to the emergency room for stitches and a lot of hours not spent playing. (I've lived that.) Pipe tip cleaners require patience, but they're a lot safer, and give you better control with less risk of nicking the finish or slicing your fingers. Don't be lazy. Take ALL the strings off the ukulele before undertaking any repair if you decide to use a razor blade to avoid accidentally slicing one of the other strings (with associated replacement time and cost). A felt cloth (something with some thickness to it, maybe a dry, terry cloth wash cloth) over the 'uku is a good idea to protect the finish in the area where you are working.
3. If you do get the nut groove too wide and it buzzes, you can try to fill it with some glue after damming the open side with removable tape and try again after the glue dries. (You might have to blow into the slot to get the glue to settle into it.) Let the glue dry OVER NIGHT or per instructions, and if you're lucky, you can have a second chance by filing away the glue. (Super glue was suggested by some.) Of course, the glue you use has to stick to the nut material. Nuts take time to make, because you're not only dealing with slot width and separation, you're changing the action on the strings with the depth. Filing away material for four slots takes a lot of patience and care to get the action just right without accidentally putting too much pressure on the sides when you are deep in the slot and creating a slot that buzzes.
Just a few thoughts. Not trying to pretend to be an expert. If I were, I wouldn't have wound up with buzzing strings. |
Thank you. |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2007 : 04:47:58 AM
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A couple of us here in CT do setups on our guitars all the time. Just a few weeks ago, we changed saddle height, fret dressed, ramped 2 string peg holes (so that a good string back angle could be preserved), and tinkered with the truss rods to get the necks the way we like them, on 2 guitars collectively worth $17K. My friend is right now making a compensated summer saddle of bone for one of my guitars. So, we do have a bit of experience gained simply by watching some luthier friends.
The problem with those cylindrical pipe files is that they have cutting edges all around them, so, if you merely wish to widen or deepen a slot, you wind up doing both. Proper tools are the essentials for doing a proper job, and Stew-Mac has very inexpensive files that will do the work you are describing perfectly.
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for:_Nuts_and_saddles.html
The standard cheapie fix for a nut slot that is too wide or deep is to mix the proper cyanoacrylate (super) glue - they come in various formulations that harden slower or faster - with bicarbonate of soda and put a dot of it in the messed up slot. No need for dams or anything like that because the mixture is a stiff paste. Let it harden and refile. However, that won't last forever on metal or wound strings.
Making a new nut is just not hard at all. Buy a nut blank (bone is best) of your (proper) size from Stew-Mac. Knock out the old nut and put it on the paper side of stick-on label. Trace the old nut with a sharp pencil and cut the tracing out and stick the label on the new nut blank. File the new nut (with the files you bought as above) following the traced lines. Polish with a series of sand papers from 100 down to 2000 grit.Do NOT glue the new nut in, unless your instrument hasn't the proper nut groove (if not, get a new instrument :-). None of the nuts on our 9 guitars are glued in. That's it.
...Reid |
Edited by - Reid on 02/01/2007 04:52:28 AM |
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Absolute
Lokahi
275 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2007 : 05:46:57 AM
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"Proper tools are the essentials for doing a proper job..."
I suspect that you may lose less blood that way, too! : ) |
Thank you. |
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Absolute
Lokahi
275 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2007 : 09:37:10 AM
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| Note: Stew-Mac recommended a "violin blank" to me relative to ukulele nuts, but I haven't tried one yet. They said you could use a piece of "hard wood" as well (not pine or some form of soft, non-deciduous wood - but caution - wood dries out and cracks along the grain - I'd use a synthetic material that was easy to work with if it were me my first time out and I hadn't already decided to make an "all wood" ukulele). |
Thank you. |
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hikabe
Lokahi
USA
358 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2007 : 9:47:36 PM
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| You could use a little muscle and force the string into the slot. I do it all the time when I change peoples strings. Wrap the string around your wrist and firmly pull parralel and along the fretboard. Use a glove so you don't hurt your hand. After about 3 string changes it will enlarge the slot. |
Stay Tuned... |
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Pmahany
Akahai
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2007 : 11:35:06 AM
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You brute. I like your style.
For my high G String Tenor Uke I wanted to place a low G on it, and also slack the bugger to low F. I use Worth mediums for my A,E,& C strings. Then I use a Heavy Duty Low G string from Worth. It's a bit heavy when tuned to low G, but, does a nice job when tuned to F. So low f C,E,& A is what I call my Slack F Tuning. As far as fitting this string into a high G slot... Not happening. So, I took it to a Spanish Guitar dealer and had him do it. He used specialty files and finger gauges. He also adjusted the other slots. It seem rather subtle what he did, but it had quite an affect on all the strings on the G String. Intonation - night and day! So I have a Slack Uke now.
So My advice, let the pro's do it.
Honokowai Pete |
Honokowai Pete |
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