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Bd1
Lokahi
USA
114 Posts |
 Posted - 05/27/2008 : 2:16:05 PM
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| Aloha, The language thing is pretty universal. Being from New York originally I have spent a lifetime (68 yrs.) defending my use of proper english? When my daughter went to St. Patricks and then Ewa School She had the added burden of Red Hair and Fair Skin,N.Y. accent and she talked Pidgen pretty good. I worked construction Laborer for a few years and spoke Haole-Pilipino-whatever and got along.When she was back on the mainland and in School her teacher asked where her shoes were? O stay by door no can wear insai eh! |
BD1 |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2008 : 2:40:12 PM
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When I wen' learn ki ho'alu, I wen' learn plenny "P" stuffs:
Press
Poke
Poi
Potagee Sausage
Potagee Bean Soup
an' Pidgin (oddawise, could not unnastand da kumu).
Linguists refer to it as "accent levelling".
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hapuna
Lokahi
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2008 : 8:06:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bd1
When she was back on the mainland and in School her teacher asked where her shoes were? O stay by door no can wear insai eh!
Eh I tink you lef out da bes part! What did the teacher reply??? Was it "HAAAAH?" |
hapuna
Seattle |
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braddah jay
Lokahi
235 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2008 : 11:01:44 PM
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Eh I tink you lef out da bes part! What did the teacher reply??? Was it "HAAAAH?"
[/quote]
Most likely just stood there for 5-seconds,blinking about 10-times,then finally...."Come again"   |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 12:49:54 AM
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Nah Bradda Jay
Coulda been one small Haaaah. Haaaah is almost universal. I heardem Big Island, I heardem Kaua`i, I heardem Ni`ihau. Get good chance wen makem across da ocean you know. |
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 01:15:37 AM
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"if you were to say out loud what is being said in pidgin, it might make more sense."
This is certain- there is no standard spelling, any kine goes! After 30 years of living in Hawai'i, I have no trouble hearing it. But when I read it I really have to focus- kind of say it out loud in my head, if you know what I mean. Then no problem. Trying to write it, though? THAT is a problem!
Chris
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Basil Henriques
Lokahi
United Kingdom
225 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 02:07:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sirduke58
Does our posting in "Broken English" make you feel like you're being excluded from the
conversation? Does it feel like we are part of a "click" who only correspond amongst a
select group of people? Do you not feel comfortable with your grasp or understanding of
"Pidgin" English & tend to shy away from such conversations because you feel inadequate
or don't want to risk offending anyone?
Well let me formally invite everyone to take part in these "Broken English" posts.Our
intention is never to exclude anyone,it's mostly to inject a little Hawaii into the
conversation.There is no obligation to respond in like manner,because we "Pidgin"
speakers also speak "Textbook English" Hey I'm finally bilingual
We all have a lot of common interests.Seems like a dirty shame to be separated by either implied,inferred or invisible walls. E KOMO MAI!!! I came here because of Ki ho'alu,I
don't care what your IQ level,Ethnic make-up,musical ability,economic status or whatever
is.If you're good people,I'd like to get acquainted & share
Malama pono
 Braddah Duke
In a word YES I do feel excluded
Friends, I am right, you ARE friends ?
The post by me WAS serious, It would bode well to "Take on Board" the comments of an outsider now feeling even more outside.
The shortage of direct replies to my post would seem to exclude my comments from any form of validity.
Hawaiian music has been performed by my family since 1937 and we've promoted the signature sound of the Islands ever since, I REALLY want to belong..not be dismissed or even worse, ignored.
I see no replies that would guide me to an understanding, some recommended listening or reading material would help, but WHY hasn't someone suggested that ?
The lack of direct responses to my post seems to go against what the original post was all about, i.e. "Come on in"
quote:
Does it feel like we are part of a "click" who only correspond amongst a
select group of people?
Yes unfortunately, but why ? |
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 02:57:48 AM
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Basil,
Sorry it is difficult to understand- people are just letting loose, having fun, and mostly trying to provide an opportunity to look inside "local" Hawaiian culture and language. Funny thing is, this is just phonetically spelled English the way people in Hawai'i hear it through the filter of Hawaiian, Chinese, Japanese, Portugese, and various Phillipino languages they were raised with- or their parents or grandparents were raised with. If you speak the words out loud the way they are spelled instead of trying to read them through the filter of your expected English spelling, you might be able to follow.
Of course, there are some words and phrases that don't come from English or idioms that are impossible to know if you are not part of the culture. I remeber when I was fourteen and first on the island, someone asked me "You like beef?" and thinking I was being invited to lunch,(but not wanting to participate as he was seeming quite agressive), I said politely "No thank you, I'm a vegetarian" (which wasn't true but seemed like an easy out). Turns out it was the perfect response- he just laughed at me for not understanding that he was asking me if I wanted to fight and walked away.
So much humor in Hawai'i is based in pidgin- it is worth the effort of trying to understand, it is an English dialect after all and not that difficult beyond the wild spelling inconsistancies. I would submit that many Hawaiian musicians have almost as much difficulty understanding ultra formal written English as you have understanding written pidgin- yet no one is trying to be exclusionary here. You are actually being invited to be included in the local culture- it just takes a little effort, that's all.
And to the other posters- perhaps it would be good to provide a "translation"? This could be even more humorous than the original posts!
Chris
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Edited by - ypochris on 05/28/2008 2:35:47 PM |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 06:21:40 AM
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I never lived in the islands. I learned ki ho'alu by jamming with friends. I found that as I was accepted, their Pidgin got thicker. Here on the mainland, folks keep Pidgin going as a connection to their roots, like cherished recipes, tunes an' li'dat.
Baz, don't feel excluded. Remember that written English is mostly based on the pronunciation of southwest England (where the first printing presses were in Britain) and that subtitles are needed for us on the other side of the pond for many documentaries in the various British accents. As musicians, our ears are usually quick at picking up new sounds. Easy, brah. |
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Basil Henriques
Lokahi
United Kingdom
225 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 10:31:53 AM
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| Sir Duke, I really appreciate your answer, but your perception of me is way off base. I belong to the group of people that live by "Pass it On" I will try and join in but you say I'm confrontational and hostile, yet you yourself call me untruthful by saying "If... as you claim etc.. is that not directly doubting my word.. not much give and take there. |
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Edited by - Basil Henriques on 05/28/2008 11:24:52 AM |
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T-Dan
Lokahi
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 10:33:36 AM
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Bruddah Basil:
I have a book to suggest that I really love: "Chalookyueensai" by Bruddah Joe....When I moved to Hawai'i as a 13-year old California haole boy, I saw Bruddah Joe reciting his pidgin poetry on the local PBS (Public Broadcasting Station)...Had to be 1970-71....It helped make what I was hearing among my new classmates and neighbors come alive. I found a reprint of the book recently and it comes with a CD of the author reading the book aloud. Pidgin is really more of an "outloud" language...but it's fun fo' chrai write'em too, eh? Don't feel left out...It's all good...O'ahu's da "gathering place," yeah? So gather up an' have fun...
the author's website:
http://www.bradajo.com/
This is much more than "how fo' speak da kine..." It is truly poetic and just charming to listen to the stories come to life...
an article about Bradah Joe:
http://starbulletin.com/2001/12/20/features/story1.html |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 10:35:29 AM
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E Basil,
You’re worrying too much. I think you’re taking this thread way to seriously. The make up of TP is a good cross section of guys who play Hawaiian music – different ages different ethnicities but all with a common purpose. For you it’s just gonna take a little time to get comfortable. As Ed says “just loosen da BBDs and everything goin be bettah”, You get BBD’s yeah? If no mo even mo betta?
I’ve seen your you tube posts and you are a solid steel player (instead of the camera mic, use an external mic in front of the group next time to get a balanced sound between the musicians). “Lovely Hula Hands” is real neat, you can almost dance to it.
And your group looks like they all mountain Hawaiians, in fact the names are all Portuguese. Dey was one legend about da guys who wen miss da boat, was your grampa guys yeah? So the way I look at it you guys must be da lost tribe and was da ones who nevah made da boat to Hawaii back in 1879.
So there is no reason to feel hilahila (bashful or shy). We not goin eat you, get Safeway ova hea. Not like Captain Cooks time. Don worry, we take care a you. It’s just like wen I wen fly hanglida, in order to fly you gotta jump off da cliff. Marriage da same way. Get guys fo take care of you.
quote:
Originally posted by Basil Henriques
quote:
Originally posted by sirduke58
Does our posting in "Broken English" make you feel like you're being excluded from the
conversation? Does it feel like we are part of a "click" who only correspond amongst a
select group of people? Do you not feel comfortable with your grasp or understanding of
"Pidgin" English & tend to shy away from such conversations because you feel inadequate
or don't want to risk offending anyone?
Well let me formally invite everyone to take part in these "Broken English" posts.Our
intention is never to exclude anyone,it's mostly to inject a little Hawaii into the
conversation.There is no obligation to respond in like manner,because we "Pidgin"
speakers also speak "Textbook English" Hey I'm finally bilingual
We all have a lot of common interests.Seems like a dirty shame to be separated by either implied,inferred or invisible walls. E KOMO MAI!!! I came here because of Ki ho'alu,I
don't care what your IQ level,Ethnic make-up,musical ability,economic status or whatever
is.If you're good people,I'd like to get acquainted & share
Malama pono
Braddah Duke
In a word YES I do feel excluded
Friends, I am right, you ARE friends ?
The post by me WAS serious, It would bode well to "Take on Board" the comments of an outsider now feeling even more outside.
The shortage of direct replies to my post would seem to exclude my comments from any form of validity.
Hawaiian music has been performed by my family since 1937 and we've promoted the signature sound of the Islands ever since, I REALLY want to belong..not be dismissed or even worse, ignored.
I see no replies that would guide me to an understanding, some recommended listening or reading material would help, but WHY hasn't someone suggested that ?
The lack of direct responses to my post seems to go against what the original post was all about, i.e. "Come on in"
quote:
Does it feel like we are part of a "click" who only correspond amongst a
select group of people?
Yes unfortunately, but why ?
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Basil Henriques
Lokahi
United Kingdom
225 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 10:41:59 AM
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T-Dan and Peter, thank you thank you for making me feel a little more welcome, I really appreciate the input and I would dearly love to belong, there is a problem though, it's the "Transatlantic Syndrome" some phrases and general constructions don't make it both ways.. Like The use of "IF: and "as you claim." That would mean to me that I'm being disbelieved, claim isn't the same as stating factually, so do YOU doubt my word about our family's musical history ?
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Edited by - Basil Henriques on 05/28/2008 10:44:09 AM |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 10:54:13 AM
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| Transatlantic syndrome? No worry Basil we neva catchem yet, we get hard enough time get across da Pacific ocean. Anda ol piccha stay good (the old picture is good), but you still stay ugly (you're still ugly). But jes keep playing Hawaiian music like you playem. |
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Basil Henriques
Lokahi
United Kingdom
225 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 10:58:32 AM
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Thanks T-Dan, I've just purchased "Chalookyueensai" by Bruddah Joe. and look forward to learning, I did learn something already.. the postage charged is quite substantial !!
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Edited by - Basil Henriques on 05/29/2008 2:23:15 PM |
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Topic |
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Is Posting In "Broken English" a turn off?
