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Hookani
Lokahi
232 Posts |
 Posted - 08/31/2009 : 12:05:11 PM
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I think Doug hit the nail right on the head with his last paragraph. I think that is what the true issue is about. It's not about whether or not someone can play traditional kihoalu or not cuz we all know most of these guys can play it and play it good. I think what most people have a problem with is something being advertised as being kihoalu when it is not. I also used to be a hula dancer and similar to this issue, it would really irk me to see commercials or things on tv talking about hula when they are showing tahitian dancing (it's probably irk'd a lot of people). If you went to a concert that was advertised as being an oldies doo wop show and ended up being heavy metal half the time, would you not question that.
I'm not knocking any of the musicians because they are all damn good musicians and for the most part I enjoy their music, but if a festival is advertised to be a kihoalu festival then you would think that's what you would expect to be performed. Now we can get into the argument of what is kihoalu but I'll leave that to the experts but to me, like Doug said, you can't just tune down a few strings and call it kihoalu, there's more to it than that. Now if they want to change the festival name to "The Hawaiian Artists That Play Guitar Festival" then nobody can complain.
Just my thoughts.
Ho'okani |
Ke Kani Nahe
YouTube
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2009 : 1:16:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hookani
Now if they want to change the festival name to "The Hawaiian Artists That Play Guitar Festival" then nobody can complain.
Sure they can - the debate over defining "Hawaiian" will come into play.  |
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sm80808
Lokahi
347 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2009 : 1:38:04 PM
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What about "Hawaii Guitar Festival" then? It takes place in Hawaii, and has musicians playing guitars...
I am just waiting for the Falsetto contest where everyone sings like Barry White.
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2009 : 2:07:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sm80808
What about "Hawaii Guitar Festival" then? It takes place in Hawaii, and has musicians playing guitars...
And then someone will complain if you have just one `ukulele player on the bill.
Creativity + business = tempests.
You can't please everyone, so just dig what you like and support it. Leave the other stuff to other people with other tastes - how boring the arts would be if everyone liked the exact same thing. |
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jmk
Lokahi
USA
115 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2009 : 7:44:56 PM
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| Mahalo Don Kaulia for sharing your mana'o with us. I believe you have hit it on the head with the kahiko/'auana song label. All music evolves. I heard Rev. Dennis say something to the effect that every song he's ever heard has stayed with him in some way. How boring it would be if everyone played the same cookie-cut slack key song at a festival for 6 hours. I like hearing a little riff sneak into a traditional song and also hearing the adventurous take it to the next level. |
Nahenahe |
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sm80808
Lokahi
347 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2009 : 08:37:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Retro
And then someone will complain if you have just one `ukulele player on the bill.
I am sure you are right. Technically isn't the ukulele in the guitar family of instruments? That must count for something... :) |
Edited by - sm80808 on 09/01/2009 08:38:01 AM |
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PearlCityBoy
Lokahi
USA
432 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2009 : 09:01:52 AM
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I’m curious to know why it is so hard to expect a Hawaiian Slack Key Festival to feature all slack key acts, much like I’d expect an ‘Ukulele Festival to feature all ‘ukulele acts, a Steel Guitar Festival to feature all steel guitar acts, or a Jazz Festival to feature all jazz acts?
For example, all of the acts in the annual Northern California ‘Ukulele Festival (in which many Taropatchers perform) must feature the ‘ukulele as the primary instrument. Incidentally, they charge a $7.00 admission (benefits the Hayward Adult School) for the all-day event and that doesn’t seem to deter the thousands that show up each year. Most of the acts are non-professional yet very diverse, entertaining and well rehearsed; in addition, we are treated to a few pros, like Bryan Tolentino this past year.
For me, the primary issue is not about needing variety or avoiding cookie-cutter acts per se, it is about staying pono to the presentation of what slack key is (or whatever the genre the festival is claiming to be) and what the tradition or genre is about.
I believe slack key can have lots of variety based on song choices, different tunings, instrumental vs. vocals, different artist’s approach to the music, solo vs. different combinations of artists (e.g., artists blending together different tunings), improvisations, etc. and yet still evolve while staying within the tradition. As one of my kumus says, “The well is deep.”
Is a Hawaiian Slack Key Guitar Festival so boring that we have to bring in other forms of music, including Pop, Reggae, New Age, “Undefinable” and other non-Hawaiian genres, and showcase non-slack key guitar instruments/styles like ‘ukuleles, standard tuned guitars, or god forbid, banjos? I don’t think so. I think the real reason those non-slack key acts are there is not because of the need for variety, but because the festival producer (and respective artists) wants to expose/promote those acts (some of whom he also produces) while he has a large, captive Hawaiian-music oriented audience. How convenient is that? Why beat around the bush--call a “spade” a “spade.”
Retro, I don’t agree that “Creativity + business = tempests” has to be a truism, although we know business interests/greed are often the root of an issue. I believe you can run a business interest with integrity. It has to do with how pono the people involved are. And yes, we do generously support the businesses/people that we believe in and boycott the ones we don’t. After all, the true “Kings” are the consumer.
Aloha,
Doug
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Edited by - PearlCityBoy on 09/01/2009 09:13:27 AM |
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Kimoto1
Aloha
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2009 : 11:27:42 AM
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If the venue is SLACK KEY FESTIVAL than all you guys Carlos Santana, Jason Mraz, etc. can go leave your guitars at home and come back and bring your lawn chair, cooler and portable recorder.
Moto |
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donkaulia
Lokahi
249 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2009 : 11:45:05 AM
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| Kiho'alu, slack key, alternative tunings....the art lives on! Old, new, out of space...the art will still live on! debates...it will happen with any art. We have festivals going on all over, YouTube is loaded with slack key guitar performers and a lot of international interest yet to be discovered because of this art. Perhaps some of us here may need to contribute beyond words and 'show' your love of the art? Unko Paul Certo...awesome! Hiram Bell awesome! Retro, Sir Duke and the rest of the Taro Patch Ohana ... awesome. Some of you I met in Maui from George Kahumoku's camp, and then some from last year's Kauai, Oahu and Kona festival. Right on! We from the islands are simple folks, work an honest hard days' work, go home, drink the favorite beverage, chew dried aku with the poi and slam some slack key guitar tunes. Slack Key lives on! |
donkaulia |
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Kimoto1
Aloha
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2009 : 11:47:12 AM
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Eh Doug,
No worreeez. Slack Key will not be tainted my imitators. "Slack Key" is greater than Ledward, greater than Gabby and all the other musicians who have made it as great as it is. Slack Key is greater than the sum of all of its parts musicians and all. It's the phenomenon that evokes the true tradtional Hawaiian spirit. WITHOUT WORDS, It expresses the love for Hawaii greater than any of it's counterparts. Guys who elaborate their own style into this are simply DILUTING THE EMOTIONS that this music style has evoked. Too bad for them. As a whole, people have short term memories when it comes to mediocre musicians. Now that's a good thing. eh?
Moto |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2009 : 1:53:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by PearlCityBoy
I’m curious to know why it is so hard to expect a Hawaiian Slack Key Festival to feature all slack key acts...
I dunno, better ask George Kahumoku, Jr., why he has an `ukulele player/falsetto singer like Richard Ho`opi`i play at his "Masters of Hawaiian Slack Key Guitar Concert Series" on Maui. Maybe because music is about more than a box?
quote:
Originally posted by PearlCityBoy
After all, the true “Kings” are the consumer.
If you do what you do for the dollar, sure.
Personally, I wouldn't want to be a "King" of anything --- who needs the paperwork?  |
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Kimoto1
Aloha
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2009 : 4:55:35 PM
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Richard's awesome and can jam both at uke and vocals. Richards song choice compliments George's program. It's quality traditional tunes in line with George's traditional slack key. However, I would differ to find out if Richard was playing stuff like "La Cucaracha" or some awkward "cha lang a lang" at the Napili Kai. George and his "A" list of accompanying performers know their song choices should create a harmonious ensemble. I've seen a few of George's performances at the Napili Kai and Ritz Carlton, and everytime I came away content that it was packaged correctly.
It's key to dress appropriately. And it goes the same with structuring a program.
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PearlCityBoy
Lokahi
USA
432 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2009 : 07:47:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by donkaulia
. . . YouTube is loaded with slack key guitar performers and a lot of international interest yet to be discovered because of this art. Perhaps some of us here may need to contribute beyond words and 'show' your love of the art?
I’m not sure I understand the point of this statement. What does posting on YouTube have to do with staying pono to the slack key tradition? In a broader sense, what does posting on YouTube have to do with participating in an open internet discussion forum like Taropatch? Yes, I contribute to Taropatch with “words”—aah, isn’t that what a discussion board is about? I actually wish more folks would contribute with “words” and participate in the open discussions.
Last I checked there were 2,100 Taropatch members. Let’s say 25 of the members are actually on YouTube. If my math is right, that’s about 1% of the Taropatch members who have posted on YouTube. So does that mean I should discredit what the other 99% of Taropatch members who are not on YouTube have to say? I don’t. I have found that I can learn from almost everyone who has posted on Taropatch, newbies and all. I may not agree with everything they say (many of them my friends), but I respect their points of view, and they often get me thinking more deeply about issues. That’s the beauty of Taropatch.
We from the islands are simple folks, work an honest hard days' work, go home, drink the favorite beverage, chew dried aku with the poi and slam some slack key guitar tunes.
Not sure I understand the intent of this point either. Other than the “chew dried aku with the poi” (hard to get or outrageously expensive here on the mainland), aren’t many of us not living in the islands also living simply, working an honest hard day’s work, drinking a favorite beverage at home, and playing slack key or other Hawaiian music? Is there more that I should be reading into with that statement?
I love and care about the perpetuation and authenticity of the slack key tradition as deeply as many others--professional or not, on this forum or not, living in Hawaii or not, Hawaiian blooded or not. I am comfortable that I am learning and contributing, in my own way, to the exposure, understanding, and perpetuation of Hawaiian slack key and Hawaiian music in general. Many others here in the Bay Area, as well as friends/family in Hawaii, are doing the same, AND doing it in a pono manner.
Aloha,
Doug |
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donkaulia
Lokahi
249 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 11:11:42 AM
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Good grief Doug. Some day we'll cross paths and if not I'll meet your problaby meet your Kumu. Like you said: Pono.
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donkaulia |
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PearlCityBoy
Lokahi
USA
432 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2009 : 09:41:03 AM
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Don, I hope you did not take my comments in any of the threads as a personal attack, because that was not the intent. I was not questioning yours or anyone else’s lineage or music skills (please don’t feel you need to justify) but rather, similar to what Hiram indicated in his “Master Ukulele King Performance” thread, I was questioning the nature of the Hawaii music industry and its strong influence (knowingly or unknowingly) on the world’s understanding of what slack key is and how it is presented, perceived, and perpetuated worldwide. Hawaii is the source of the tradition, and I feel those in Hawaii have a greater responsibility in ensuring the integrity of the tradition.
I’m not sure I would say the dialogue here (which included others besides Don and me) was a “debate” per se, because I suspect we are actually a lot closer in viewpoints regarding the wonderful tradition and cultural significance of slack key. We all make contributions in our own ways, some more impactful than others, but contributions nonetheless. Although we may have different backgrounds and skill levels, I think we equally share a strong passion for the art and tradition of slack key. That’s not so bad, huh?
Aloha,
Doug
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Oahu Hawaiian Slack Key Guitar Festival Aug 16
