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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
 Posted - 09/24/2009 : 2:13:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by rendesvous1840
I'm frankly surprised Hawaiian music isn't lumped into the World Music category. Or has that been done away with?
I had a chat with a NARAS representative after the Hawaiian category was first awarded as to why Hawaiian was in folk and not in world. He said they consulted "their ethnomusicologist" who said Hawaiian was a folk tradition and because of the predominance of western musical characteristics - melodic, harmonic, rhythmic, metric - it was far closer to what was being lumped in Folk than what is normally entered in the World category. When you look at those aspects, yeah, I can see his point, but those aspects, in my opinion, are not what define Hawaiian music. And a lot of what is currently lumped into World at the Grammys has as much western influence as Hawaiian.
There is a related issue with Nā Hōkū Hanohano which the board has discussed. All of the genre categories are defined by musical elements, except the Hawaiian category, which is based on language. The board is not considering to change that at this point, but it does make for some interesting situations. For example, the backing tracks on Mailanai Makainai's recent release are not "traditional" in sound or feel, but most of the tracks are in the Hawaiian language. So she really could enter it in either category. Some have questioned the appropriateness of that, and whether there should be a different category for Hawaiian language releases that are done musically in different styles. There are probably not enough of those kinds of releases for a new category to be established, however. It just points out how the lines between some of these categories are getting blurred.
Back to the Grammys, to me, this is simply another example of lack of accountability at NARAS. They answer to no one. Those who make decisions are kept anonymous, which keeps them from being held accountable for those decision. They are telling the membership and the world that Hawaiian is part of the American musical tradition. Who are they to say?
IMO, the Academy should have a separate field for the music of indigenous peoples, with categories representative of those - Native American, Hawaiian, Māori, whoever. It could even be a sister academy like they have for the Latin Grammys.
We could make a stink about it, along with those in the Native American categories. It is interesting to note that there were only 20 entries in the Hawaiian category this year. If the numbers stay that low the Hawaiian category could go the way of polka. |
Edited by - keoladonaghy on 09/24/2009 2:14:04 PM |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2009 : 2:26:15 PM
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| Just where is Lawrence Welk when you really need him? |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2009 : 3:18:09 PM
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| One of my ex-co-workers, mechanical engineer Hank Haller, was nominated for a Grammy in the polka category for his song, "Say Thank You Dear and Give Her Roses". He did not win, but he got to go to California for the soiree. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
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naukilo
Lokahi
USA
103 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2009 : 4:34:13 PM
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quote:
Back to the Grammys, to me, this is simply another example of lack of accountability at NARAS. They answer to no one. Those who make decisions are kept anonymous, which keeps them from being held accountable for those decision. They are telling the membership and the world that Hawaiian is part of the American musical tradition. Who are they to say?
Pololei kela e Keola. How in the world NARAS would consider Hawaiian music to be part of the American musical tradition is beyond me. It is far from it. The Hawaiian Chant in itself is unique to Hawai'i. Most of the older Hawaiian song melodies were derived from Germanic, Britanic and European influences and maybe a little dose (very little) of New England Calvinistic Choir music ( circa 1820s) thrown in. Hawaiian music is far from the field of American musical tradition. If anything, and in my opinon as a composer, England, Germany and other European countries played a far greater influence on Hawaiian music than anything else due to the earlier contact and friendship with these countries. I'm sure Heinrich Berger would agree with me.
Aloha,
Rev. Dennis Kamakahi |
Edited by - naukilo on 09/24/2009 4:36:30 PM |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2009 : 04:38:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by keoladonaghy
Do a search of Google for "Polka Grammy category Hawaiian" and you'll see how often the fact that there was still a Hawaiian category was cited by people who lamented the elimination of the polka category.
http://www.google.com/search?q=grammy+polka+category+hawaiian
Hey Keola! This is a really interesting and enlightened search. It brings out into the open issues with polka music and the Grammy Awards that are so similar to the ongoing Hawaiian Grammy fiasco. Well I mean there's that and the discovery that there is no beer in heaven. Maika`i. It's third down and long. I'm gonna punt. Punt. |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2009 : 06:34:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Peter Medeiros
quote:
Originally posted by keoladonaghy
Do a search of Google for "Polka Grammy category Hawaiian" and you'll see how often the fact that there was still a Hawaiian category was cited by people who lamented the elimination of the polka category.
http://www.google.com/search?q=grammy+polka+category+hawaiian
Hey Keola! This is a really interesting and enlightened search. It brings out into the open issues with polka music and the Grammy Awards that are so similar to the ongoing Hawaiian Grammy fiasco. Well I mean there's that and the discovery that there is no beer in heaven. Maika`i. It's third down and long. I'm gonna punt. Punt.
That is interesting. Jimmy Sturr won 75% of the years that the polka category existed. |
Andy |
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PearlCityBoy
Lokahi
USA
432 Posts |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2009 : 12:58:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Admin
That is interesting. Jimmy Sturr won 75% of the years that the polka category existed.
I just want my props here - I pointed that out on TP back in March of 2008, when we hashed thru this Grammy stuff before. 
That old thread had some really interesting commentary in it, too. I've grown tired of the debate itself, as we've hashed out the same points, over and over, for more than six years now.
Fellow lovers of Hawaiian music, let's find more things behind which we can unite and celebrate. I'm just happy that another musical form I appreciate gets some honor and attention (and that I get to vote in that realm each year, too). |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2183 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2009 : 1:06:39 PM
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As long as WE play it, the music will not die. As one who loves traditional musics of several types (the trad types of music have way better grinds), I've learned not to care what the "suits" say. Fellow musicians are a different matter. We only need validate each other, as music is at its best a communication between people, not a product.
BTW, Retro, I appreciate your sentiments, because it is good to keep tradition available for newer and younger ears. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2009 : 02:08:53 AM
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Frankly, I think the attitude of there are other things more important owrth grouching over is a rather snobby attitude. This is something that someone felt passionate enough about to bring it up in this forum.
It has been a bone of coontention here in the past, and funny thing is that we have plenty of points of view from so many people other than those to whom the music truly belongs. Amy, Keola and Dennis have laid their hearts bare on this topic. And as we may all recall, there was quite a furor when Tia anCarrera and Daniel Ho won the Grammy because so many people thought it was not true Hawaiian music and was not worthy of a Grammy for Hawaiian music.
That seems to me to be just the point they are bringing up -- not only is the music being wrongly described by the category to which it is now attached, but so many other people will perhaps adopt the wrong idea about the music. Moreover, it is horribly insulting to the kanaka maoli who have had so much of their culture kakaroached by westerners, to permit the board to call it "roots music".
Something happened in the first place to get them to change the category. Whatever that was that caused the change, somehow it should be able to be affected to change it further to what would be respectful to the Hawaiian people and the beautiful and magnificent Hawaiian music.
I am willing to write letters and e-mails to whomever anyone might think could help to create change.
Imua. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 09/27/2009 02:09:39 AM |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2009 : 06:50:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by keoladonaghy
Do a search of Google for "Polka Grammy category Hawaiian" and you'll see how often the fact that there was still a Hawaiian category was cited by people who lamented the elimination of the polka category,
They need to sing the polkas in Hawaiian. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2183 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2009 : 08:52:28 AM
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I can play "Ulupalakua" on the buttonbox. Hans plays "Blue Hawai'i" at dances. Not bad for guys wearing leather shorts. I told Hans that we educate the public one polka at a time. (see us on YouTube, look for "Happy Hans")
As to the subject at hand, we appreciate and value a certain music form. Good for us. Others, however, do not feel the same way as we do. Too bad for them. It is impossible to raise a group to consciousness. Minds and hearts are one individually. Play music with and for your friends. Learn new tunes and tunings. Talk story. Eat good food. Use your digital tuners. |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2009 : 09:04:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
I am willing to write letters and e-mails to whomever anyone might think could help to create change.
Well - keep posting here, for one thing. In the past, I was one of many who worked to even GET a "Hawaiian Album" category created for the Grammys, through the Pacific NW chapter of NARAS.
The change of name from "Folk" to "American Roots" hasn't exactly thrilled many of the communities lumped into it, but most of the musicians I've communicated with recognize that it's just a semantic issue, all about marketing, branding and business. Most people in the industry look at the Grammys (and the Hokus) as an industry event, and see that it's about the money side of the equation.
Once you take that perspective, you might realize that it ain't about the art, it ain't about the history, it ain't about "horribly insulting" the past - people who love the music purely for the artistic beauty of the culture it represents might think that way, but that's never what an industry award was meant to recognize.
The Hawaiian Album award will still be about music of Hawai`i. Go poll the general public, and ask them if they know what "field" different Grammy awards reside in - they won't know, they won't care, and it won't make one bit of difference what they enjoy, what they listen to, or what they buy and/or download. You might as well call it "Field 13" for all it really matters. |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2009 : 12:51:09 PM
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Field 13- Isn't that where "They" stashed the alien spaceship? Somewhere in New Mexico, I believe. I think Jimmy Hoffa lives near there.
Unko Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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Grammy woes--pehea hoʻi e pono ai?
