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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
 Posted - 03/09/2010 : 5:15:38 PM
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| It'a wonderful to play on steel, too. Here is something interesting for those of you into country and bluegrass - it has the same chord prgression and almost the same melody as "The Kentucky Waltz". |
keaka |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2010 : 5:45:09 PM
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| Jack - I ain't seeing it. I going go ask Paul. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2010 : 8:10:10 PM
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Listening to some of the recordings, I'm hearing a diminshed or altered chord at one point, at least in some versions. I don't catch the connection to Tennessee Waltz, but I always played that with the chords walking down, ie, D,Dmaj7, D7,G. I don't know what the original chords were for Tenn. I did play along with several of the YouTubes Wanda was listening to tonight. Several keys,and different styles, but was good fun.
Unko Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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Hookani
Lokahi
232 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2010 : 12:07:53 AM
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| Unko Paul, maybe sound different cuz Jack mentioned Kentuncky Waltz and you playing Tennessee Waltz. |
Ke Kani Nahe
YouTube
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Steven Espaniola
Lokahi
225 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2010 : 07:14:17 AM
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One of my all time favorite mele by Alohikea! Lots of kaona and the melody appears simple to the casual listener at first but as you peel away the layers, you find out how complex the vocal melody and chord progressions really are. Yes, you heard right there is a diminished chord. Some leave it out and others leave it in. For example, I recorded my version without and sometimes when I perform it live I'll embellish with the diminished. Malama pono!
stevenespaniola.com
stevenespaniola.blogspot.com/ |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2010 : 07:41:07 AM
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Steven just reiterated one of the things I have always loved about traditional Hawaiian music -- the complexity of the music. At first glance, you think it is a very simple melody, but on second look you find out how complex it really is. Kind of like a reward for taking the time to really, really listen.
And Derek - mahalo for setting both Paul and me right about what mele Jack is referring to. Duh. Some days I don't know which ways is down and which was is up. Bill Monroe wrote Kentucky Waltz and I wen google him and listen to it. Not bad for something that is not Hawaiian music, ha-ha. Paul just listened to what I asked him -- if there was a similarity in his opinion between Pua Lilia & Tennessee Waltz. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2010 : 11:14:21 AM
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Nah, I read the post and substituted Tennessee for Kentucky. Of course, that was after Wanda planted Tennessee in my mind, maybe it was a subliminal message? Shoulda read more carefully. At least I can still hear a diminished chord when one gets played.
Unko Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1583 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2010 : 4:17:02 PM
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Augmented V chord, according to "He Mele Aloha" and their version sounds right to me.
Augmented is the 5 note of the chord raised a half step, so in G the V+ is a D major chord with the A raised to A sharp. Lays out very nicely in taropatch, the A is on the first string at the 7th fret, so just slip that finger up one fret to make a D+ or Daug.
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key on YouTube
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Edited by - Fran Guidry on 03/11/2010 4:20:17 PM |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2010 : 07:19:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fran Guidry
Augmented V chord, according to "He Mele Aloha" and their version sounds right to me.
Augmented is the 5 note of the chord raised a half step, so in G the V+ is a D major chord with the A raised to A sharp. Lays out very nicely in taropatch, the A is on the first string at the 7th fret, so just slip that finger up one fret to make a D+ or Daug.
Fran
Fran, you beat me to this. Is is an augmented chord. It fits with the melody of the song at the point - a chromatic run which includes an augmented 5th of the V chord before resolving to the third of the I chord.
The question is whether or not that is how Uncle Alfred wrote it. I am seeking out the earliest sheet music I can find to see how hip and forward-thinking he was as a composer - to see if he intended the augmented chord. Either way, it is a nice touch.
The best substitution for the augmented chord is a ninth. Hui Ohana used this as did a few others. (The version I recorded - which may still be on my website (http://www.hawaiianmusiclives.com/listen.html) - uses the 9th. ) So if playing in the key of G, the V7 chord will be the D7, and instead of the augmented, one could substitute an Eb9 since it includes the same augmented 5th chord tone.
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Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2010 : 08:39:11 AM
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quote:
The question is whether or not that is how Uncle Alfred wrote it. I am seeking out the earliest sheet music I can find to see how hip and forward-thinking he was as a composer - to see if he intended the augmented chord. Either way, it is a nice touch.
IMHO, sheet music often oversimplifies the chords of a song. I usually try to play the song as written on a piano to see if there are hidden gems that are left out of the chords above the music. So, if you can find some early sheet music, go to a piano playing friend and ask him or her to play it for you, then figure out where what is played differs from the chord presented above the music. |
keaka |
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alika207
Ha`aha`a
USA
1260 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2010 : 06:03:28 AM
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| You forgot one you should not miss: Bill Wynne. I don't know if he's put it on youtube, but you can find it on http://www.hawaiianmusiclives.com just nani! |
He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.
'Alika / Polinahe |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2182 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2010 : 08:47:51 AM
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| Chord substitutions can add color and subtly change the feeling of a tune. I've heard "Akaka Falls" straight with just 3 chords and also an arrangement that Slipry1 got from Henry Allen that has way more chords than some would be comfortable with. Both sounded good. Play the chords of "Pua Lilia" and you can sing "Kentucky Waltz" with those same chords (although it ain't the way Bill Monroe writ it). Slipry1 astounded and delighted Aunty Iwalani Kamahele with that stunt a while back. |
Edited by - thumbstruck on 03/14/2010 08:49:06 AM |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2010 : 06:41:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by slipry1
quote:
The question is whether or not that is how Uncle Alfred wrote it. I am seeking out the earliest sheet music I can find to see how hip and forward-thinking he was as a composer - to see if he intended the augmented chord. Either way, it is a nice touch.
IMHO, sheet music often oversimplifies the chords of a song. I usually try to play the song as written on a piano to see if there are hidden gems that are left out of the chords above the music. So, if you can find some early sheet music, go to a piano playing friend and ask him or her to play it for you, then figure out where what is played differs from the chord presented above the music.
We may be talking about two different things... I am not referring to the chord charts (guitar, 'ukulele, or other) above the standard musical notation. I am referring to the musical notation itself.
Your method is the best - as long as the sheet music is early enough to capture what the author was thinking/hearing in his/her head when he/she wrote it.
And even then what is stop us from using chord substitutions that are pleasing to the ear? Heck, what is to stop us from using substitutions that aren't pleasing to the ear? 
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Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2010 : 07:48:43 AM
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| When I was studying jazz piano, I learned that there are 3 ways to improvise: horizontally (i.e. improvising on the melody), rhythmically, and vertically (i.e, the harmonic structure). The first and second are easiest, but the third takes time and study. You either have to take lessons or play and play until you figure them out. Put all 3 together and you have Art Tatum, Bill Evans, Monk, etc. It gets complicated if there is more than one musician, especially if someone isn't listening. For example, rhythmically, I love to play 3 against 4 on piano while someone else is improvising. As thumbs mentioned, Henry Allen is a steel player that's fond of harmonic embelishment of almost every song he plays. It adds interest to the song, even if you play the melody each time but alter (appropriately - there ARE rules, ya know) the chords as you go. |
keaka |
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A study on Pua Lilia via You Tube
