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Haolenuke
Lokahi
USA
117 Posts |
 Posted - 03/13/2010 : 07:02:30 AM
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Aloha,
Why are there so few published tabs for slack key music? Virtually none of the Pahinui clan's songs, or arrangements, are commercially available. There are only a couple of tabs of Sonny Chillingworth's songs available. Leonard Kwan's "Slack Key Instruction Book" contains only a fraction of the arrangements that he recorded, and it is out of print. The book of Ray Kane's musical tabs is criticized for inaccuracy, and out of print with no plans for a revision and a reissue. The only tab of Ledward Kaapana's work I've found was in Mark Hanson's excellent book. But that was only one tab! And there are many more talented slack key musicians who have no tabs of their works published.
Professor Peter Medeiros' new book offers a rich array of slack key songs, and Ozzie Kotani is working on a book of slack key tabs. Nonetheless it seems as though much excellent slack key music is destined to be lost to future slack key players if it isn't documented in a standard format.
Are there unpublished tabs floating around among the players with some hope of doing the songs justice? Have the top performers simply learned these songs the old way by listening, watching, and remembering? (Tabs, we don't need no stinkin tabs.)
Whats up with this? I realize that printing costs are high and the market for slack key tab books is rather small, but beautiful music is being lost. Couldn't tab compilations be published on CDs in PDF format to keep costs reasonable?
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salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2010 : 07:27:51 AM
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Mark Nelson has a bunch of tabs on his website. His Taropatch name is "Mark". Go to his profile and click on his web page.
Tabs are not a traditional way to teach Hawaiian slack key so it is only more recently that they are becoming available. Plenty out there to keep you busy for a long time though.
Dave |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2010 : 11:05:44 AM
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Cyril teaches at workshops, at UH Hilo, and they also are establishing Halau Mele Hawai`i o Pahinui: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skgNp3ctnRU Perhaps availing yourself of one of this opportunities might result in some tab for Phainui family arrangements of the mele. I have heard him say that he hands out "sheets" that tell you exactly where to put your finger on the guitar to play, which is way different that how he learned, simply (not so simply by a longshot)by listening and watching and doing. There are so few ways that these wonderful musicians can make money from the music we all love. Perhhaps this is something that could be worthwhile for them if there is popular demand for it. if people are willing to pay for it. I for one would love a music book of Dennis Kamakahi's mele. But what I like is musical notation, not tab.
I know, I know , you guys are going start hissing, booing and hootin' & hollering, but you ought to see Amy Ku`uleialoha Stillman & Daniel Ho's book for `Ikena. It has complete musical documentation of everything done to produce the musical arrangements. This is in and of itself an amazing first for Hawaiian music. Oh how I would love to see it done by other musicians.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2010 : 07:00:11 AM
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I know the feeling of wanting to "buy it now"...
the exact version of the song you're hearing and loving at the moment...
But there really is an amazing amount of stuff out there, and here too.
Some close or exact, others way helpful, lots of tuning information and things to help.
Old man recollects...When I started switching from violin to fiddle, we scratched up the LP's to learn licks, and then we HAD to improvise to fill in the parts we scratched up too much to decipher!
Now there's GOOGLES of transcriptions of fiddle artists...(unless you're in a backward country of 1 billion) but the real trick is still to not just copy a transciption.
same is happening with slack key...
Great to have the original information I admit, to help find those tricks and the paths through those song forests...so I still will seek those musical maps when they're around...
But compared to even 10 years ago, there are so many tabs/music available...
and it's growing.
we don't have to depend on FAR-AWAY AM radio for our music enlightenment anymore!
But I miss it.
(KOMA and all the others...but never could get Hawaiian stations here, till the internet).
We'd wear a good aluminum hat, (Remember Berkeley's Man from Mars?) or we'd drive around in the 49 Dodge till you find the sweet spot for that night's atmospheric conditions.
Mainly looking for the Kansas City A's baseball network...Hawaiian music was still a twinkle in my eye.
But anyway, couldn't find a better place to look for the Hawaiian stuff...lots of friends, support and resources/links to be discovered right here in our lovely taropatch.
But, please don't leave your records in the window, or as John Hartford used to say...
"they just won't play, just won't play, just won't play...")
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Edited by - Kapila Kane on 03/14/2010 07:02:14 AM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2010 : 1:45:33 PM
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Amy Ku`uleialoha Stillman's searchable index provides identification of guitar or `ukulele tablature and provides the name of the resource where that documentation may be found. You might want to go explore and play around a bit with that amazing resource.
Here is an example: http://www.useapencil.org/aks/songs_search.php?q=alu&Submit=Search
Amy has devoted much of her life's work to documenting the music; it is her kuleana. She is an amazing resource and a member of this forum for those of you not familiar with her. She found and saw with her own eyes, the handwritten "Kaulana Na Pua" in the Library of Congress. Perhaps she might spot this thread and comment on resources for guitar tablature. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 03/14/2010 1:50:39 PM |
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kuulei88
Akahai
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2010 : 1:54:35 PM
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aloha all,
I need to explain that I indexed songbooks in the 1980s, and like any hupe kole upstart, didnʻt know when I was doing things wrong. So I was tracking things in the index like--is there musical notation? is there only lyrics? are translations included? is the notation melody only, or a piano-vocal score? When I got to "tablature," I can tell you now that I was using the term wrong back then. All that appeared in the songbooks were chord tabs for guitar and/or ʻukulele. Itʻs not complete tabs for complete songs, just chord charts. Unfortunately for you folks.
But to get bak to the original question--why are there so few published tabs for slack key music? Well, the master players did not learn with tab, and so they pretty much do not teach with tab. Which means, if their arrangements are going to be made available in tab, then SOMEBODY has to do the tab-ing.
and bottom line already put out there by Kapila Kane: the real trick is still to not just copy a transcription. |
amy k |
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Haolenuke
Lokahi
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2010 : 6:03:09 PM
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Aloha Dave, Wanda, Gordon, and Amy,
Dave, I have seen Mark Nelson's excellent webpage and growing list of slack key tabs, and I expect to purchase some of his tabs soon. My concern is not really to come up with more material for me to play, but to encourage those with access to the masters to document their songs in tab/musical score format. I would argue, for example, that Gabby Pahinui's brown album should be fully transcribed with a tab/score for each individual instrument and that these tabs/scores should be vetted by those musicians that were present. Are you confident that the music will survive in a non-written format in a time filled with the distractions of television, computers, cell phones, and the gentle melodies of rap music?
Wanda, I will attend the next slack key workshop that I have access to. My problem is that I don't have much potential as a player, and I hesitate to waste Uncle Cyril's time. All of the currently popular pieces of tabbing software, Guitar Pro, TablEdit, Sibelius, and Finale produce tabs with the musical score included. Now if only they would support the special characters used in the Hawaiian language. Thank you for the link to Amy's fine song index. Here are the precursors to many a fine slack key arrangement.
Gordon, yes tabs have become much more plentiful lately. The new tabbing software makes it much easier to create clear, accurate, tabs. I realize that the masters improvise around a core melody and that an iron-bound transcription will not really capture a living song, but the tabs offer a starting point from which to build a performance. Nonetheless some performances are so special they should be captured note for note. And due to all those unplucked yet resonating strings, it is very difficult for someone that isn't intimately familiar with the music to create an accurate tab.
Amy, what a extensive and useful index you have created. People will be using your work for generations. Hopefully there are some local slackers out there with your dedication. I would be happy to help myself, if it could be done from California.
Michael
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 06:07:36 AM
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You might want to check out my list of published slack key tabs (tabs, not chord sheets) and other song learning resources here:
http://www.patchett.com/kihoalu/tarosongs.htm
It should be up-to-date as of Mark's book...if I'm missing anything please let me know.
And yes, to answer the original question, there are a lot of tabs floating around that haven't been published. As somebody else pointed out, however, the traditional way to learn slack key is to watch someone play. That way you learn far more than just which strings to pluck! |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Haolenuke
Lokahi
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 1:02:55 PM
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Aloha Craig,
Thank you for your excellent list. I suspect that only published sources you are missing are the tabs in Peter Medeiros' new book, Hal Kinnaman's tabs, the tabs on Ozzie Kotani's new DVD, and some of the more recent tabs that Mark Nelson has posted at his website. Your list is quite a resource, and it is one of the main reasons that I started this thread. I had particularly hoped to find a Gabby Pahinui songbook on your list, but it doesn't exist.
I am happy to hear that there are lots of tabs floating around. I hope that someday soon they will coalesce around the appropriate slack key masters, get vetted, copyrighted, and published.
I would expect that unofficial tabs would not necessarily do a good job of capturing the melodies, and they might gradually stray further from the originals over time.
I am sure there are plenty of things that one cannot pick up from an combination of accurate tabs and good slack key recordings, but I don't think I have a good understanding of specifically what one misses out on. Are there slurs that require more than just an accurate tab to reproduce correctly? Are there variations in tempo and dynamics that require more than a good recording to pick up on? I would expect that a good instructor would be able to provide much more information on the history, and cultural significance, of a song than the liner notes of an album. Presumably a good instructor could also offer guidance about how to improvise upon the melody. What am I leaving out?
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 5:51:05 PM
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All the better players constantly think up new ways to play a song. A tab can only capture a moment in time, and may not be the only way that particular player plays the song. They may make a simpler version for teaching, especially when working with beginners. I know there's a big difference in Kahuku Slack Key as Patrick Landeza taught it to us in class, and how he recorded it on his CD. I can tell just listening that he had more ideas than I would have absorbed in a week's time. But they may use a different bass pattern playing solo, or more strums when playing with a steel player.And it may also depend who they are playing with. If two very talented guitarists jam, they may inspire each other to think up new ideas on the spot.
Now, try to separate what Gabby was doing, in amongst Atta and Sonny. Who played what note? Who took which pa`ani? As none of them are alive to undertake such a tab, it's very unlikely to be accurate. Even if one of them were here to do it, they may not remember all those details. From things Cyril Pahinui has said in interviews, and a few things Bla Pahinui has told us directly, I don't believe Gabby would have created a tab for anyone to learn from. I'm pretty sure that wasn't how he learned, and it doesn't seem to be how his sons learned, either.
In another way of thinking, you need to study the genre, and really understand what ki`ho alu is, and what it sounds like. (This also applies to learning to play jazz, or Slovenian style polka's, or any other musical form. Immersion. Be baptized in it. Sink until you can swim.) It may take years. I know it will for me. And that isn't even the point. The point is to take the journey. When the car breaks down, that's how far you got. Your car may be better than mine, you may go a lot farther. That's fine by me. I'll buy your CD's. Give 'em. A couple things to bear in mind are:
1) You can't be Gabby. The job is filled.
2) Gabby never failed at being Ray Kane, he succeeded at being Gabby.
3) Ray Kane never failed at being Atta, he succeeded at being Ray Kane.
4)None of the names in the 3 points above are etched in stone. You can take any of them out and fill in the blanks with whoever you choose. (For Pete's sake, don't put ME in the same sentence with those GREATS!)No great musician/artist/author/composer/architect/you-name-it, ever failed at being someone else.They succeeded at being themselves. Go thou and do likewise.
Studying Kani Ki`Ho alu from Ozzy's book, and also from his DVD, I find he is giving ideas in the DVD to embellish the song. But it still isn't the same as he plays it on his recording. And that's proper. He wants thew student to understand enough to go out and make it our own. When he teaches several ways to dress it up, he doesn't tell you you must use all, or any, of them. Make it reflect you, and make it reflect you on a given day, or in a given group of musicians.
I think the best teachers recognize that until the student can step out on their own and make the song their own, the teacher has not been completely successful with that student. The real goal of a dedicated teacher is self-obsolescence. Think about it.
All that being said, and I firmly believe it, if there were no tabs, a distant student such as myself would have little chance of learning this at all. Sorta like 3000 monkeys with typewriters, trying to create War & Peace. If I did do it, how would I know?
Unko Paul
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"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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Why are so few slack key tabs available?
