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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
 Posted - 03/24/2010 : 10:14:28 AM
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| Another note: Thaumbs, I watch you doing chord substitutions all da time when you play. Makes playing with you (and listening, too) a downright pleasure!! I believe that you picked it up by playing A LOT! It's hard for someone who has learned by years of experience to explain what he's doing. It's true, gang, the more you do it, the better you get. As one plays more and more, and I don't mean that performing is playing. the more things appear, often through error (what was THAT!!! - hmmmmm.... try 'em again, sounded good!) Thumbs has been playing ki ho'alu morning and night since 1972 and plays a mean button accordion, too. So those of you who wonder what's going on after playing for a year or two, keep playing - it'll come. One of the best definitions of maturity I've ever heard is the awareness that a wish and its fulfillment will not be simultaneous. |
keaka |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2010 : 11:53:21 AM
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Yep, this is getting interesting. Sounds like a lot of folks are using their ears...
Lest anyone thinks that I'm implying Hawaiian musicians playing slack key only do a few simple, melodic types of improvisation ... not at all.
The short time I got to spend one-on-one with Cyril Pahinui years ago was a revelation. I believe he has just about the most highly developed harmonic vocabulary of any musician I've met. The way he weaves complex---and consonant--chords around a melody is just sublime.
And he's not alone: I once met a guy on Maui who sounded like he was playing chord melody swing--- all in slack. Wow!
Just wanted to make that clear.
But, for those of us learning the style--I'd say stick to the basics: variations on the melody, moving lines through the chord changes (like in Taropatch where you do a long descending group of sixths from the 12th fret when the song stays on the V7 for a couple of measures), ornaments, maybe some 6ths & 9ths... and that wonderful #11 (a C# in the key of G, if ya don't know.) etc.
Have fun!
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2010 : 12:33:08 PM
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Jack,
I am impressed with you as a musician, teacher, engineer and fellow cancer survivor. I think you should be contributing more to this forum (but you really do not have too. Although I haven't posted for a while -- for me, I'm on cruise control).
I can only speak as a traditional slack key artist. Although it was your brother in arms and fellow traveler, Kory who started this post, I think he framed the answer well as to how one approaches improvisation within the genre of slack key with the quote from John Hartford ". Style is based on limitation. Finding the "limitations" and playing within them it the goal." As one becomes more familiar with each genre of music, they become better able to define the boundaries of that music.
One of the major characteristics of ki ho`alu is that the tunings are optimized for a particular key. Although there is some room for transposition (key changes) within the tunings, for the most part, songs will be performed in the key of the tuning. This approach is diatonic and not chromatic where one would be able to play in every key and use all the modes. This is a limitation for contemporary improvisation.
However, chromaticism is more applicable to contemporary music and not slack key. This does not mean that a high level of improvisation does not take place in slack key or that slack key is not as sophisticated or developed. Improvisation takes place within the melody, harmony and rhythm of most songs. Listen to Gabby's entire catalog of music, as well as Atta Isaacs and you will hear a recurring swing element as well as continuous chord substitutions. In addition, there is the element of theme and variation, which we all take for granted. Alternatively, it may be a simple change in the bass line, where a cultural rhythmic preference is a catalyst leading to improvisation (listen to Mele 1 and Mele 2 on the mp3s that I just posted).
When I am jamming with someone and improvising, I am usually thinking about a complimentary line. Rarely will I use a line or chord progression, which is dissonant. What I am trying to do is find my space while not stepping on the melodic line, or covering up what anybody is playing. I am able to accomplish this by using chord inversions, and by clearly breaking up the slack key fretboard into three sections. Position 1 covers fundamental (open chords); position 2 covers the first inversions; and position 3 covers second inversions. Listen to the two guitars in my Kalena Kai posts. Than again I could be real niele and step all over everybody else by taking up all the space (Shine da lite on me salomila, I ste ova hea salomila).
When you were last here, and we were sitting and talking for about an hour or so at Red Hill, You mentioned how you were really enjoying taking lessons from Alan Akaka and getting all of this great advice from Al Machida (Kahauanu Lake Trio) when you went out to Shawn Machida's place. As we talked further, you brought up the process of learning and playing. Moreover, the thing that was most important for a steel player was learning to find the spaces in the music where you could play the steel. I think that your explanation was spot on. Can you elaborate a little more on this? This is one of the key points of being able to improvise within any style of music and you probably should have included this as a part of your primary elements of improvisation post (horizontally, rhythmically and vertically).
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Edited by - Peter Medeiros on 03/24/2010 12:42:22 PM |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2010 : 2:18:15 PM
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| Eh, Peter! Now you stay talking my language! DIATONIC, not chromatic (Peter, if you guys didn't know, plays some diatonic button accordion). Many times I'm asked, "Why play a diatonic instrument? You're limited in the keys you can play in." You can play in only one key at a time! I like the oldtime feel of the instrument. Oldtime tunes were made on it. Same with ki ho'alu. The limitations of the tunings helped to structure the tunes and how they were played. |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2010 : 3:08:54 PM
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Kden,
But I neva play accordian in ova ten years. 'Coz of da chemo I have neuropathy in my fingers. So I am not able to press down on da buttons on da box or even keys on a keyboard without a little pain. On top of that I got osteo arthritis in my hands and legs.
Getting out of bed every morning is an adventure. I only play guitar or uke nowadays. |
Edited by - Peter Medeiros on 03/24/2010 3:10:35 PM |
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Any Thoughts on Improvising?
