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Johnkeanaaina
Aloha
USA
10 Posts |
 Posted - 04/09/2010 : 10:11:17 PM
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H-a-o-l-e-i-z-a-t-i-o-n das wun wird?? sounds good to me unko Paul.
I guess it all comes down to the almighyt buck where in my opinion, quality and all the other stuff takes a back seat. It's really a roll of the dice, a gamble. it could be bad, it may be good or it becomes something great. I guess it's all about making money the most creative way you can. I think being close to a traditionlist type of musician and not having tasted the moolah I tend to lean towards the musicians that uphold traditional values. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2010 : 03:10:44 AM
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| Retro- I see what you are saying about the music, but I was talking from the hula perspective. I wouldn't dare change anything in HULA that Aunty Mapuana de Silva taught me becuse she wouldn't even bother eating me, she would toss me in ka lua o kanaka on Big Island Hilo side. One thing I have learned in hula is you DO NOT dare do anything different that what your kumu taught you. We cannot even post videos of our halau until Aunty Mapu approves. You notice there are no videos of our halau yet. She will make sure that we get everything right. Every step, every beat of the `ipu, each foot of each person going be in the right place at the right time -- no changes. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2010 : 03:11:09 AM
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Without quoting either Wanda or Retro, I agree with... both of them.
Like Wanda, I am indifferent to this arrangement.
To expound on Retro's point, I am able to elucidate why I am indifferent to it: I felt that it didn't dare to go far enough. To my ears, it was a jumbled mass of all of Keola's influences thrown together without much purpose. John Lennon is one of my favorites, and "Imagine" is timeless - actually, more appropriate to our world with each passing day. Is the cacophony - the confusion and chaos - of this arrangement reflective of the world as it is or the world as we would like it to be?
I have been trying to say something for a long time, but I have been at a loss for words. I am still at a loss for words, so I will surely say too little and potentially let myself be misunderstood. But I'll try... There is an inherent danger in trying define that which is "Hawaiian" - or, for that matter, even that which is "music." When we put boundaries on it, we stifle creativity, and when this happens, not only does creativity die, but so does tradition. Because when the status quo endures for so long, subsequent generations may lose interest.
I hesitate to use an example from Hawaiian music. So... I recently attended the Picasso exhibit at the Philadelphia Museum of Art where I had some rude awakenings about my heroes. Chagall was admonished because his new brand of art was not deemed "Jewish" enough or "purely Jewish" because he began to incorporate other influences besides his Jewish roots. Because of this, some did not even consider it "art." Likewise, Delaunay's study "Nude Descending A Staircase" caused a fervor - not only because nobody could clearly make out the nude, but because the traditionalists unanimously said that, "Nudes do not descend - they recline." So the critics and the public insisted it was not a "nude" and that the heretical approach to a nude should not be considered "art." It was not even permitted to be shown publicly - unanimously rejected by all of the galleries and forums. However, 25 years later, both the critics and the public looked at "Nude Descending A Staircase" and said, "We get it now," and now it is considered revolutionary and evolutionary - an unavoidable next step in the advancement of art. Eventually, taste and opinion advanced to "catch up" with what Delaunay was trying to accomplish. And, finally, Picasso's works... Need I even go into detail on this man? Derided for most of his early career, look at the dozens of followers in the ensuing 100 years. When he began to revolutionize art with his then as yet unnamed ideas that eventually became Cubism and Surrealism, few wanted any part of it. It might have been called "contemporary," but some wouldn't even call it "art." He is now chief among the great moderns, but after 100+ years, Picasso is also deeply entrenched in the entire art tradition. He is as influential as any other artist and perhaps moreso.
Would art have died without Picasso? Maybe not. Would it have evolved? Maybe, maybe not, maybe just more slowly.
Now take the above history and substitute "Richard Kauhi" for Delaunay and "Andy Iona" for Picasso.
I could say more, but I'll stop here - for now...
No, maybe one more thing. It's Merrie Monarch season - for which many of us are losing sleep to root for our favorites. I watched the hula kahiko competition last night (or this morning) and was surprised to hear a mele by Frank Hewett. I suspect that this rankled the staunch traditionalists among the kumu hula competing, but I checked with my sources on the ground there (courtesy of Facebook), and they assured me that the rules had been changed to accommodate modern competitions written in the kahiko style. A blending of old and new - as sanctioned by the wise and wizened keepers of the Merrie Monarch flame.
I could write a chronology of the various influences from outside of Hawai'i that contributed to the evolution of Hawaiian music. And at every point at which a change occurred - a new influence was incorporated - we can ask ourselves... Did the tradition die that day? Or did it merely grow and blossom but the masses simply weren't ready to see it, hear it, accept it yet? If we favor an artist and their style but we subscribe to "keeping Hawaiian things Hawaiian," then we count our favorite artists as "traditional" - no matter when they arrived on the scene or how they revolutionized Hawaiian music. 40 years ago, Robert and Roland epitomized "contemporary Hawaiian music." 40 years later, nothing they did - in retrospect - was all that shocking compared to, say, a Mark Keali'i Ho'omalu or a Tony Conjugacion. Nobody calls Robert and Roland "contemporary" anymore. So at some point, their music became as "traditional" as everything else. Likewise, Kahauanu Lake is listed under "traditional Hawaiian music" wherever I read about him, but in 1960, his music was considered as heretical as Delaunay. And he was married to a kumu hula - no, the kumu hula. I bet that made for some interesting dinner table conversation in the Aiu/Lake household.
To put that in context, if the Hawaiian music tradition had been arbitrarily marked as ending with Robert and Roland, or with Kahauanu Lake, or with Richard Kauhi, or with Andy Iona, or with the arrival of the guitar or 'ukulele on Hawai'i's shores ... Merrie Monarch would have ended last night because there would have been no modern music for the hula 'auana. I have asked myself many times... At what point will we accept that tradition is not a moment in time but, rather, an evolutionary process necessary to keep tradition alive? The only answer I arrive at is... As long as what is "tradition" is judged by humans born in a place and time, what is "traditional" to them will always be a very personal thing.
Food for thought - hopefully, accepted graciously and with aloha as that is how it was intended...
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Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
Edited by - hwnmusiclives on 04/10/2010 03:48:11 AM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2010 : 03:19:49 AM
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Even though I guess I think I am a staunch traditionalist, I sure like Gabby and we all know the story about Aunty Alice talking about how he was too modern or something to that effect.
If ever anyone was rooted in tradition, it is Keola Beamer. No disputing of that fact at all. So I guess if ever anyone had the chops to "expand" or try something different and new, it is he. I really do not know much about Raiatea's background, except she is from the Helm `ohana related to George Helm (her uncle perhaps?). So she, too, I am sure, has the proper foundation.
They both respect the roots, so I am going to wait until the CD comes out and listen to the rest of it. It seems that they do have older mele on the CD and we shall see how those are handled. It is true about expanding the Kawika chant. Can go on Territorial Airwaves (Harry B.
Soria, Jr.'s) web site and listen to how Kawika has changed over the years. There is obvious evolution even though we don't know it.
PS: while you are there, you might want to bookmark Territorial Waves website and go explore it at your leisure. There is GREAT mo`olelo on there.
http://www.territorialairwaves.com/index.php?page=3&start=1 |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2010 : 11:55:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
One thing I have learned in hula is you DO NOT dare do anything different that what your kumu taught you.
I'd have to agree --- for hula haumana such as you or me. But since we are talking about Keola Beamer's music, I don't think you can really apply that perspective to this case. (I think you also said that in your last post though, din'cha?) |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2010 : 12:02:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by rendesvous1840
Haoleization has done enough damage. It's time to stop the madness.
What most of us think of as "Hawaiian music" is an adaptation of several other culture's musics. All creative arts tweak from creative works that preceded them. NOTHING is pure. You cannot stop the inventive process, nor should you want to.
Everything that was there before is still there, along the great timeline of culture; the material of the past is not replaced by what is new, they exist alongside each other.
No one makes us listen to or like what is new or different. Stick with what you love, share it, support it, encourage it - nothing wrong with that. But don't try to censor or silence creativity that I or someone else might enjoy, just because it's not to your taste. |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2010 : 1:14:50 PM
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| Imo Imo Hoku Iki by Iz. What about that one? Man its been done before and will be done again. Every year we sing Pō Laʻi E so what about dat one? Me I think you are all correct like the 5 blind guys describing one elephant. Each viewpoint is different and each one is right in its own scope. Bottom line is it is up to the musician what that musician going do. You think every body liked Amadeus? But jus try create like him. Like it or donʻt like it it is made and it is out there for everyone to hear or see or taste and sure most kumu hula would like their students to be rubber stamps but once they ʻuniki they are expected to change and be creative. I guess that makes a difference too whether one is a student or a master. My sifu would be appalled if I tried to copy his every move. Besides it just canʻt be done. So we play and we interpret and we create. When a recording is a commercial venture we try to make it unique and hope it gets on the hit parade. Any way I know you all care very much and that is a good thing. Aloha a mālama pono. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
Edited by - noeau on 04/10/2010 1:16:10 PM |
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LovinLK
Lokahi
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2010 : 2:56:46 PM
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I had listened to that awhile ago and I tend to agree that it does sound very empty ... almost overproduced and unimaginative. Just translating it into Hawaiian isn't enough.
You have to take a chance or two these days and I'm finding that so much creativity, and individuality, is being lost by the recording industry in general. Not only Hawaiian music but all genres. I haven't bought a Hawaiian album in ages because I'm not hearing anything I really like.
I have a huge collection of vinyl that I've accumulated over the last 20 years and don't see too many new legends on the horizon. I'm tired of all this regurgitated Jawaiian crap and covers. Where is new songwriting? Where is the creativity these days? It's totally lacking.
I like some of the early Beamer Bros. music. But I think since they are now doing their own thing, a lot of the magic they had in the early days is gone. I have their first album and it was a good one. I'm not too keen on what Keola is doing lately. I find a lot of it like pablum.
Somehow, what's coming out in Hawaiian music has lost that Traditional touch. Just like the garbage coming out of Nashville has diluted country music so it now all sounds like 80s pop.
Those legends who are left in Hawaiian music ... what artists are they grooming in the old traditions to carry on for them in a traditional style?
I'm glad I have the vinyl I have. I don't think a lot of it has been converted to CD yet and I'd love to get some MP3 files for some of those songs. Can anyone help me?
Some artists haven't recorded anything new in years. Frank Hewett, Olomana, Haunani Apoliona, Makaha Sons to name a few. Why is there such a delay? I'm not buying anything I find boring nor am I buying a CD for only one halfway good song. I want 12 or 13 good, quality songs. I've only found one artist so far (not Hawaiian) who hasn't recorded a bad song. Many the artists I like don't have a very good batting average of 100% good songs, especially now with overdubs, overproduction and those dang autotuners. |
Lovin' Lee is my favorite pasttime!!
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2010 : 4:04:04 PM
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Frank Hewet is recording probably even as we speak. There will soon be a CD forthcoming.
There are new artists producing wonderful music, mele that are newly written. Try Na Palapalai's "Nanea" or Kupaoa. Watch mele.com for new releases, there is bound to be something that would catch your interest.
Cyril is working on a new CD. Bla is working on a CD. Kamaka Fernandez is working on a CD.
Kaumakaiwa Kanaka`ole has some amazing new music.
Hoku Zuttermeister has some amazing music.
There is no shortage of wonderful music out there, there is a shortage of money for me to buy all the stuff I want to buy.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2010 : 4:49:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by LovinLK
Some artists haven't recorded anything new in years. Frank Hewett ...
quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
Frank Hewet is recording probably even as we speak.
Kawaikapuokalani Hewett has put out a couple fine albums in recent years.
http://www.danielho.com/html/kawaikapuhewett.html |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2010 : 05:55:31 AM
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Eh, Aunty Wanda, no fo'get dat da firs' himeni were translations.
Humans: No one is on the exact same page. If 2 are on the same page, they are on different paragraphs. If they are on the same paragraph, they are on different sentences. If they are on the same sentence, they bring a different background of understanding to the subject.
Good innovation is based on tradition. Juxtaposition can be a good thing.
I remember talking to some folks into German Volksmusik. They were going on about "real folkmusic" and "folk-type-music" - the kind created in the present time. I told them that the original stuff was created by someone and was cutting edge back in the day. I guess it is true that the artist does have to die and possibly pass into obscurity for their creations to become "accepted".
Remember that the 5 string banjo origially had 4 strings. The ukulele only had a high "G". Guitars had 4, 5, 6, even 10 strings. The piano as we know it, has been around only less than 200 years. The button accordion was invented in 1828 in Vienna, the concertina in the same year in London. Steel guitar appeared in the 1880s.
Yesterday's innovation is today's mode of operation and tomorrow's hallowed tradition. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2010 : 06:29:33 AM
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This is so much the reason I love TaroPatch. We started out asking your opinion of Keola/Raiatea singing Imagine in `olelo Hawai`i and end up talking about censoring or haoleization and conspiracies and grassy knolls, etc.
But one thing I wanted to say is that I eally took to heart what Braddah Al (No`eau) said. That's why his name IS No`eau. Iz was the one who first got me to Hawaiian music. And I recall when I heard Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star in Hawaiian, I thought this is amazing. It sounds so beautiful and here's this big, hulking Hawaiian giant singing this keiki song (well, until I learned what Ahi Wela was all about -- not for the keiki at all). And I thought it was brilliant. I even liked when he took "Take Me Home Country Roads" and used it for his side of the island of O`ahu.
So I guess I am not against innovation, it is just this particular song by Keola and Raiatea and the way it was done that I just simply did not care for. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 04/11/2010 06:30:10 AM |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2010 : 1:19:47 PM
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| No worry, Aunty. One size does not fit all, not even most. I used to wonder why people made cookies that weren't chocolate chip. Now, to my detriment, I enjoy plenny kine cookies. |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2010 : 08:22:49 AM
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Yesterday I played a gig for a local winery. The founder, Frank Ferreira, had died last year, and now his family were all helping to clean the place up and sell off the remaining stock -- proceeds to local charities!
Since Frank was from originally Maui, his large family came over to help out. I'd volunteered to help with some slack key, which brought a few smiles from the Maui guys.
Naturally, at the end of the day there was a lot of Hawaiian music played on a boombox while I was packing my gear.
OK, so what's the point? Just this: although I wasn't paying a huge amount of attention, I heard one song that made me think of this thread. Don't know the group, don't know the vintage, don't know the CD.
But I sure as heck know a Carter Family gospel song when I hear it... even if it was sung in Hawaiian.
Imagine that!  |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2010 : 09:46:24 AM
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| YEAH! Like or no like das ok. But do um fo the reasons that allow one to be true to demselfs. Not errybdy going like erryting sumbody when try make. But dey make um awreddy so no ack! If you no like das cool if you like das cool too. but crticism is not necessary. Jus carryon an wait fo da next ting goin rankle your alaʻs. All new stuff not always accepted right away. How many of you ran out to get da iPad? See wot I mean? |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
Edited by - noeau on 04/12/2010 09:47:55 AM |
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Keola Beamer & Raiatea
