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salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
 Posted - 05/08/2010 : 05:20:08 AM
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I am thinking of installing a pickup in my Goodall and have narrowed it down to Baggs vs K&K.
Any preferences out there between these two and why?
Dave
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2010 : 05:54:08 AM
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The K&K Pure Western Mini is passive, no battery inside the guitar. In many cases the K&K sounds great.
There are many Baggs pickups. The latest, the Anthem, has been shown in prototype form. It combines the Element undersaddle with a proprietary mic technology and delivers really gorgeous results.
The K&K can have issues with high volume situations, as can any sound board transducer (as opposed to an undersaddle). And the K&K has been reported to sound extremely bassy in some installations.
Another minimal impact choice is the new Miniflex 2Mic. This system suspends two microphones, a preamp, and battery mount from the strap jack in the endblock. No wiring or other junk rattling around inside the guitar, and a very natural sound.
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2010 : 10:24:39 AM
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There are several K&K models, and this may not affect all of them. I have the K&K Hot Spot, which I bought to try on dulcimers & my ukulele. It has a sticky tape that holds it on. I tried it with masking tape to test various locations before using the good stuff it comes with. What I found was it picks up every sound that the instrument makes,from the wire rubbing on the instrument to my shirt rustling against it. I suspect that's par for a vibration sensor of this type. The few undersaddle pickups I've tried on other folks guitars don't seem to do this. I have no real experience as none of my toys has an undersaddle. I always miced my 12 string, or used a magnetic soundhole pickup. I don't care for the magnetics either, as they sound too electric to me. That's why the mics. My Taylor has the expression system built in, but I haven't played it outside the house yet, so it's kinda untried. I have used it at home a bit, but that's inconclusive as far as higher volumes/larger venues goes. It sounds good at home, though. If you can, try the K&K before you buy and see if the shirt rustling against the guitar annoys you. It sounded very natural on the dulcimer & ukulele. I'm interested to hear what others say on this, as I still may be adding some type of pickup to the uke & dulcimer.
Unko Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2010 : 12:56:07 PM
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The miniflex model 2 looks intriguing because there is absolutely no modification or permanent installation in the guitar.
hmmmm.... so many choices.
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Volcano
Akahai
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2010 : 1:04:01 PM
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I've installed over 1,000 pickups (really) in various guitars for all kinds of folks - regular people, big stars, day-to-day pros, as well as myself. I have come to a philosophy regarding on board pickups on guitars like Goodalls, Collings, Santa Cruz, etc., etc. I've done the dual source with under-the-saddle piezo and high-end condenser mics going through the Rane AP 13, K&K systems, Baggs, Fishman, and many others. Here's what I've come up with after 20 years of doing these in all of their manifestations - They all suck. It just depends which one sucks the least for you. The system should be as simple as possible if you need it to work everytime. It should e feedback resistant and should be easily eq'd. I'm currently using a Baggs Element in my Goodall Aloha Standard. I've done some pretty big shows with this and have been told be some soundmen that they didn't hav to EQ it. The Baggs, however, is pretty touchy. It has to be installed just so and can have pretty bad balance problems. The K&K system is "okay" at fairly low volumes but has a lot of problems if you try to push the volume. I don't recommend the Trinity system they have. If one of the condensers goes the whole system sounds like crap. Fishman just came out with a new system called the Infinity. Their piezo strip is stiff and balances very well. There are two controls, a volume and am eq sweep that really works. The Baggs might sound a little more natural but you better have a really good installer who will stand behind his or her work. All of the condenser mics including the Miniflex sound horrible to my ear. Some people have liked the Baggs M1 magnetic pickup, but it covers the soundhole clamps the top. This does hurt the acoustic properties of the guitar and has an "electric" sound. As stated above the K&K stick on mics will pickup every sound on the top of the guitar. Some percussive players prefer this, but I hate the system.
There is nothing that will sound like your guitar only louder. If you want to accomplish this, be willing to spend about 15K for great mics and mic preamps and also a really, really good soundman to put on salary.
In short, my advice is either the Baggs or Fishman under the saddle piezo with volume and EQ controls. Good luck
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sm80808
Lokahi
347 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2010 : 1:26:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by salmonella
The miniflex model 2 looks intriguing because there is absolutely no modification or permanent installation in the guitar.
hmmmm.... so many choices.
I got mine last week. It sounds great on my nylon string. |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 03:47:44 AM
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I use undersaddle too. I installed the baggs "active element" on all my guitars and get along with it very well. It is powered by a battery but if you use a pre-amp, the piezo sound seems to go away. A great combo is an undersaddle with an internal mic with the mic just barely mixed in.
The system I have on my Seagull artist studio is the best one I have heard yet and it is an undersaddle with an internal mic. It is a Godin QunatumII but I think it is made by Baggs. If I could put this on all my guitars, I would.
Contact pickups like K&K also amplify finger and arm noises (anything that touches the top will be amplified) so I prefer how underaddles isolate the sound to mostly the strings. |
Bob |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 04:49:40 AM
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Volcano, by "They all suck," are you referring to a variety of problems depending on the pickup, or do they all have the same set of problems in varying degrees? Like I said above, I nearly always miced my 12 string, but even that had problems, most prominently being feedback through the monitors. The piezo's I've heard seem to have an odd sound often described as "quack." Sound quality has been dependent upon who is turning the knobs on the PA, even with mics. Does eq reduce the suck factor?
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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Volcano
Akahai
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 05:45:12 AM
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Hey Paul, When I say they all suck, I mean that there has still been nothing invented that will properly amplify an acoustic guitar without going through all kinds of expensive hoops. The technology is getting better but by tiny increments, certainly not by leaps and bounds. The problem is somewhere in the vast complexity of the tone of an acoustic guitar. There is air movement and wood vibration in a very delicate balance.
EQ does help a great deal. Typically, one would want to reduce the mids to get a more natural sound. Most soundmen agree that the EQ should look someting like a smile. The Piezo "quack" depends on how one plays. Some players seem to accentuate that tone while others minimize it. I would always ask a player what his particular application would be before recommending an install for them. A remarkable amount of people would tell me they would want a pickup to play "around the house." I never really understood why someone would wnat to modify their guitar, even minimally, if they were not relying on the pickup. Those were often the most complicated and expensive installations I did. I can't tell you how many complex pickup combinations I removed for professional touring musicians and replaced with much simpler ones as they came to realize that the sound was pretty much out of their control anyway. My experience also comes as a touring musician. The absolute last thing you want are problems.
Try to preview a pickup through a really good PA before deciding on which to use. There was an acoustic amp that Fender made for a short time that was awesome. It was the Acoustisonic Ultralight. Their other Acousticsonic amps suck (as do most acoustic amps) but this one was incredible. It was fairly expensive so my guess is it didn't sell too well. I was shocked at how good it sounded with almost any single-source pickup and led me to believe that it is greatly important what you ultimately play through.
Someday the perfect pickup will be available for acoustic guitars. I know Lloyd Baggs (wonderful person and great company) and folks like him. Thanks to them for making this their life's work. |
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1022 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 08:15:58 AM
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| I had a K & K installed in my Goodall Grand Concert. I found that I needed a good preamp to make it sound better. I've since sold the Goodall; it never worked for me. |
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salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 08:30:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by chunky monkey
I had a K & K installed in my Goodall Grand Concert. I found that I needed a good preamp to make it sound better. I've since sold the Goodall; it never worked for me.
OK then, one choice down about 99 to go Lots of great info on here.
Dave |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 5:21:49 PM
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I am not an acoustic purist, so I just use a Bill Lawrence soundhole pickup (about $45) and plug that in my PA for performances. Very handy, very good output and it has a volume knob on it. And it doesn't feed back too bad and it can be pulled out anytime.
Jesse |
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salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2010 : 07:00:39 AM
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disregard this reply
I was able to get rid of the hiss but I still cannot get it right so I removed the link and video and will try again next week.
Currently in evaluation is the miniflex 2mic model 2.
Here is a link to a video with two sound types.
The first minute is flat EQ with no FX.
The remainder is slightly higher bass and treble with slightly lower mid and some slight FX added.
The hiss is the cheap digital recorder I use, not the mic pickup. If I figure out how to get rid of the hiss, I will make another one.
The video portion is just to be able to upload to youtoobey and is just a couple photos I took recently.
Comments appreciated.
Link removed....
Dave |
Edited by - salmonella on 06/03/2010 8:34:58 PM |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2010 : 10:51:47 AM
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| I have K&K three button pickups in two guitars so far. I like them for a few things !. No Battery needed 2. Good over all freq response with out a pre amp DI. personally the pickups just amaze me. I don't get any piezo quacks so that is a plus. I have not installed any of this type in any dreadnaught though dreadnaughts have a waveform that may not be conducive to the K&K but I have no direct experiencew in this area. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
Edited by - noeau on 06/04/2010 2:25:06 PM |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2010 : 4:17:54 PM
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| As usual, No'eau is right on! I hate pickups that reuire preamps. I have a double dot pickup in my Kamak uke, and I love it. Actually, the Barcus/Berry pickup in my old D-18 works just fine. |
keaka |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2010 : 11:10:16 PM
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| I have a passive Fishman Thinline in my D-18. I have a pre-amp for it if I need to go into a board (fits on my belt). I hae a Sennheiser in my buttonbox. Great sound. |
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Topic |
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pickup choice (not ford vs chevy)
