| Author |
 Topic  |
|
PearlCityBoy
Lokahi
USA
432 Posts |
 Posted - 05/27/2010 : 12:04:44 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by APT
After reading these posts, I think I'll just pass on the amp idea. Sorry for the ridiculous question, slkho. I think that I am a little out of my league here. Adios.
Hi APT,
I don't think your question was ridiculous, and I would hate to think that the replies to your question made you feel dumb or unwelcomed, or worse yet make you want to leave Taropatch. I value the diversity of discussion, from newbies to pros, Hawaiians and non-Hawaiians, etc.
Regarding your question, I believe there is value in playing your guitar amplified. Here are some thoughts:
(1) Through amplification you can really hear and become more conscious of your playing technique. Things that might not sound so bad playing unplugged become much more noticeable (e.g., string squeaks, timing, tone). Also, you can position yourself so you are facing the speakers and get a feel for what you sound like to an audience. For me, playing with an amp has improved my technique significantly.
(2) Although you currently have no intention of playing in front of a crowd, you may end up doing so, and that’s a good thing! Like you, when I first started out, never in my wildest dreams did I think I would ever play amplified in front of a crowd. My first experience was years ago when I attended my first Kahumoku Slack Key workshop on Maui.
After dinner, the teachers and us students gathered in a big circle for a kanikapila. As the microphone got passed around the circle and everyone took turns performing/leading a song of their choice, I thought, oh, oh, what am I going to do when it comes to me? I decided to go for it and played, warts and all, one of only a couple of basic slack key songs that I knew. Was it nerve racking? Absolutely. Did I make mistakes? Yup, plenty. Did the group laugh or criticize me? Absolutely not. In fact they applauded loudly—ostensibly for the effort vs. the performance quality—but it was applause nonetheless! After the kani, people thanked me for sharing a song, and that made me feel welcomed and appreciated. Although I am not a pro, it gave me the confidence and motivation to play publicly (e.g., open mics) and share the music—something I never thought I’d have the guts or skill to do.
(3) In the future, you will probably end up playing with others (e.g., kanikapilas). If it’s Hawaiian music, then chances are that you will be playing with uke players and you’ll be totally outnumbered. From my experience, uke players are much louder than guitar players, and you’ll need amplification to defend yourself  .
(4) At home I don’t play plugged in that often. Usually it’s the day or two before I do an open mic or public performance—kind of like a dry run. To avoid stink eye, I amp it up when my wife has gone out shopping  .
(5) Playing amplified with friends can be really fun. Some of the best jams I’ve had were in the living room with a small group of players all plugged in and with microphones. For some reason, being amplified seems to bring out the best in our playing/singing. Maybe it makes us feel like rockstars or something  .
Anyhow, APT I hope you don’t get discouraged and continue to post on Taropatch. However, feel free to contact me offline if you want to ask questions privately.
Aloha,
Doug
|
 |
|
|
GUke
Lokahi
188 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2010 : 12:56:15 PM
|
Aloha APT,
I am one of the uke players that has been successful in drowning out Bruddah Doug at the many kanikapila and open mics we both have participated in. If amplification has helped him as he claims, then I have benefitted enjoying his artistry. So I second all the insights he shares with you.
When you do get an amp, since you are playing an acoustic instrument do consider one which is biased towards an acoustic guitar. If you ever think you want to sing and play along, then consider an amp that also has a XLR microphone input. Currently I have a Roland AC 60 (which now has a model which can operate on batteries) and also a Crate Taxi which has a rechargeable built in battery. Both have mic inputs. The Roland was made for acoustic instrument in mind as far as I know. I mention voice because I do sing and play, and hearing your voice amplified and getting use to that can be an eye opener. Being able to operate on battery can be a plus i.e. no AC outlet available. Roland has Micro series and one does have a mic input aside from the Micro series being AC and DC operable. Look into Pignose amps too.
Also another way to amp up and if again you want to sing along is to look at a portable PA system. Of course you'll be spending plenty more bucks(and I do mean plenty more). You may not want to go this route. But if you got extra "surf-the-net-time" check out the Fishman Soloperformer or the Bose L1 Compact.
In any case whether you amp or not, do try it out. It is another reality. |
Genaro
Should I? Itʻs only $, and where Iʻm going itʻll burn or melt. |
|
|
|
PearlCityBoy
Lokahi
USA
432 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2010 : 1:42:48 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by GUke
Also another way to amp up and if again you want to sing along is to look at a portable PA system. Of course you'll be spending plenty more bucks(and I do mean plenty more). You may not want to go this route. But if you got extra "surf-the-net-time" check out the Fishman Soloperformer or the Bose L1 Compact.
In any case whether you amp or not, do try it out. It is another reality.
APT, I agree with Genaro, especially the part about ukes drowning out guitars. Any other ukers want to confess? Seriously though, when I was weighing the pros and cons of amp vs. PA system, I ended up getting a Yamaha Portable PA system, which is in the mid-range of pricing. It wasn't cheap, but it paid for itself after a couple of gigs. I seem to recall that Andy Wang (Admin), recently got a Fender Passport PA system--he wrote a review.
The PAs are versatile and you can plug others into them, along with microphones. Sometimes I'll plug in my son on keyboard while I play along on guitar. For kanis (when needed), I just bring one of the two speakers and the mixer fits conveniently into the back of it so it's just one piece. Coincidentally, the one speaker fits real nicely, along with accessories, in one of those inexpensive Rubbermaid storage containers.
As Genaro mentioned, PAs like the Bose can get very expensive. However, if you're on a budget there are less expensive alternatives but you'll get less features/inputs, quality, and amplification. Here's a 100 watt Kustom Profile PA system on clearance at Musician's Friend for $199.00: http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Kustom-Profile-1A-Portable-PA-System?sku=476501 .
Aloha,
Doug |
Edited by - PearlCityBoy on 05/27/2010 2:02:15 PM |
|
|
|
Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2010 : 10:22:58 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by APT
And if there is value in doing so, where on earth do I begin to research buying an amp?
Hi APT,
First, what PearlCityBoy said. All questions welcome.
You may or may not need an amp, but then again an amp could be another "toy" that adds a dimension of enjoyment to your guitar playing. It will allow you to hear your guitar playing from another perspective. And then, if you need amplification for a specific occasion down the road, you'll be ready to go.
Do you want to amplify your guitar only or do you plan to sing too? For now, I will assume that you're only looking to mic one guitar, and perhaps a vocal. There are lots of choices out there from inexpensive to very expensive. Search this site and google for "acoustic amps" and your research begins. I am assuming that you play acoustic guitar, of course.
So what's your budget?
Ps. My review of the Fender Passport PD-250 is here. Also see the Crate TX15 |
Andy |
|
|
|
ricdoug
`Olu`olu
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2010 : 7:43:21 PM
|
After owning and experimenting with many amps for acoustic performance, I'm partial to the Roland (AC) Acoustic Chorus series of amps. My favorite is the Roland AC-33, as it also runs on batteries. It has the same power plant as the Roland BA-330 P.A. system. There are seperate inputs and controls for the instrument and microphone channels. The effects include reverb, chorus and ambience along with a 40 second looper that allows you to layer your music to play as a one man band! Ric
http://cms.rolandus.com/assets/media/pdf/ac-33_brochure.pdf |
It's easier to ask for forgiveness, than permission! |
|
|
|
slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2010 : 09:55:48 AM
|
| Yeah, Roland! Several of us up here in the Northwest Corner have little Roland amps. Thumbstruck, Tico Ka'eho and I have the Roland CM-30 Cube Monitor. It has 3 channels, one with a mic input. It's as clean as a whistle for both electric and acoustic instruments, ant it's easy to carry around (much better than my Peavy Vegas 400 or even the CLassic 30)! We've ganged 2 of them together per instructions, and the result is a mini-PA, 2 mic channels and 4 instrument channels. I use a Boss '65 Fender Deluxe Reverb pedal with it for my steels. Thumbs plys his Martin D-18 and Tico plays his acoustic/elecric Ovation uke through it. Retro plays his bass through the Bass amp version. Way cool! |
keaka |
|
|
|
sm80808
Lokahi
347 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2010 : 12:13:32 PM
|
| The two best acoustic amps that I have played through to date are AER and Acoustic Image. |
|
|
|
ricdoug
`Olu`olu
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2010 : 7:17:22 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by slipry1
I have the Roland CM-30 Cube Monitor. We've ganged 2 of them together per instructions, and the result is a mini-PA, 2 mic channels and 4 instrument channels
I have a good friend that uses one of those for his keyboards, along with a microphone.
At the Southern California Ukulele Festival last Saturday, I used a pair of Roland BA-330's:
http://cms.rolandus.com/assets/media/pdf/ba-330_brochure.pdf
as the P.A. system for the outdoor stage using it's "Stereo Link" feature to gang them together. That gives 4 XLR microphone channels and 4 stereo 1/4" channels. Each was consistantly run hard by 19 bands and performers from 9:00AM to 3:30PM on a set of WalMart bought RayOVac AA NiMH batteries (one set of 8 in each BA-330) that were never changed and there was no reduction on sound quality or volume. I'll post photos and videos in the near future of the setup. Ric |
It's easier to ask for forgiveness, than permission! |
|
|
|
Bau
Lokahi
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2010 : 04:40:17 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by APT
After reading these posts, I think I'll just pass on the amp idea. Sorry for the ridiculous question, slkho. I think that I am a little out of my league here. Adios.
please don't be discouraged and IMO your question is a very good one.
since you would be getting the amp for your own enjoyment , what does it matter how much reverb you use or how loud it is? I say go for it, amps can be fun because you can play with all sort of effects. Many have them built in now or you can buy a pedal. Its neat the things you can come up with when you play with an echo and chorusing is a neat effect too that sounds good with acoustic.
And then if a situation does come up playing for other people or where you might need an amp you will be experienced with it.
Andy makes a good point too, you can use the amp for vocals also. Listening to your voice through an amp can be quite different than hearing it through your head.
|
|
|
|
thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2177 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2010 : 08:34:09 AM
|
Q: How many Bluegrass musicians does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: Six. One to do the job and 5 to stand around and complain about it being electric.
That being said, I have a Fishman Thinline in the D-18 and a Sennheiser in my buttonbox. I do not turn them up to 11. |
|
|
|
Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2010 : 08:50:27 AM
|
As long as we are back on this subject---
If you want an amp, get an amp. Fun is fun, right? Besides, there are just times when ya need to annoy the neighbors.
At the risk of getting an earful from Lawrence, who has much to say on the subject, and the white lab coat to back it up, I recently A-B'ed two amp/mini PAs aimed at the singer guitarist or ukester: The Fishman SA220 Solo and the Bose L1 Compact (stay calm, Lawrence...)
Both are quite small, easy to set up, and designed for a single player in a small, coffeehouse style venue. Both use an array of tiny speakers and a built in amp with a rudimentary mixer (2 combo 1/4"/XLR in the Fishman; one 1/4" line/instrument & 1 XLR mic input in the Bose.)
Both sounded fantastic in the show room. I tested them with a Taylor 414 with the expression system (didn't have my guitar with me) and a Shure SM 58 for the vox.
The Fishman has a more "traditional" PA sound and feel, as well as quite a bit of flexibility built in. Surprisingly big sound, fairly warm, and EZ to dial in an acceptable guitar sound. The Vox sounded like a typical stage PA---loud, but colored a bit. The FX are nothing to write home about, but they are useful in small doses.
The Bose sounded, well, absolutely amazing. If you have heard the bigger L1 systems, you'll know what to expect. The guitar sounded great... there was nothing I needed to do to it. But the voice was what floored me--it sounded like there was my favorite sound guy sitting at the desk. Perfectly EQed, a hint of compression. Huge, warm... all that stuff. The Bose was not as loud as the Fishman, but it seemed to do a slightly better job of filling the sides of the room.
Did I buy one? Nope; cuz I haven't made up my mind yet.
Both cost just under a grand, which ain't cheap. However, if you buy two of those Roland puppies, or an AER or Shertler amp, you are right up there...
Each has plusses and minuses, but both are well worth checking out if you do a lot of smaller gigs and are tired of lugging around a regular PA.
If and when I buy one, I'll post a full review.
http://www.fishman.com/products/solo_performance_systems.asp
http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/shop_online/speakers/portable_amplification_systems/index.jsp
In case none of you have heard about Shertler--they make a mini-PA for acoustic guitarists that is a killer:
http://www.schertlerusa.com/
|
|
|
|
Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2010 : 2:55:02 PM
|
Grrrrrr.....
There is a good reason why Bose and Lose share the same last letters.
(As in You Bose You Lose - In my and a few thousand other Techie's opinons that is)
Grrrrrr.... (Now restraining myself) 
|
Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 10/07/2010 3:05:28 PM |
|
|
|
rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2010 : 3:07:04 PM
|
But thumbs, "Earl didn't do it that way!"
Unko Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
Edited by - rendesvous1840 on 10/07/2010 3:10:25 PM |
|
|
|
Trev
Lokahi
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2010 : 04:46:15 AM
|
I've mentioned before that I've used the Bose L1 systems, and I said it's hands down the best sound for acoustic instruments I've ever had. This has held true in a 7 piece ensemble context going through 4 systems, a duo going through one and a festival situation with six. My only criticism of them is that, for me, they're too expensive.
I immediately got flatly contradicted (well, shouted down, it felt like) by Lawrence and decided not to contribute further to the conversation.
So all I'll say is that I'd encourage people to use their own ears and judgement, and buy something (or not) on that basis. What suits some people clearly does not suit others.
|
|
|
|
no ka oi
Aloha
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2010 : 05:04:06 AM
|
| I've been in many situations where the Bose system was used. The sound is nothing short of awesome. I've been a musician most of my life and have played in many large concert situations with the best sound possible. The stage sound usually sucks no matter how good it is out front. Only where there is a soundman on stage for mixing stage sound does it get decent. The big advantage of the Bose system is that the players hear what the audience hears. I have found the sound to be equal to some of the best sound companies on the mainland. It is pretty expensive, but I feel it is well worth it for the sound. I don't think it's possible to compare it to something like the Roland Cube. Not even apples and oranges. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Amplification
