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kuulei88
Akahai
USA
75 Posts |
 Posted - 08/17/2010 : 7:02:44 PM
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| Why am I feeling like I wasted my time putting up that post? |
amy k |
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maggie
Aloha
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2010 : 7:59:03 PM
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Why are so few women slack key players as prominent as men? I don't know. I won't even pretend I know anything about the professional music world and how it works. But I will go out on a limb and say that from a my point of view, I found the first paragraph in "Guitar Heroes, Make That Heroines, in Indie Rock" insulting. The journalist treated the musician as if she was a runway model. Maybe I'm taking it too seriously, or missing something - like an inside joke that only journalists and professional musicians understand - but who the heck cares what the she wore, and what her nose looked like. It's possible the journalist was desperate for word count - but really, the NY Times can do better than that.
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2010 : 8:37:59 PM
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| I played with two wahine who played guitar Joni Komatsu and Lorene Godfrey. They played circles around me. They also sing great. You can maybe check out the unconscious sexist policies of the people in charge of the radio stations and concert promoters who overlook women all the time. men get a lot of credit but there were many women who play and influenced the genre. Why you think get wahine key? Mo betta us guys not try say anything because we donʻt know the answer or we ignore the obvious because it hurts to admit that we are still chauvinists in many ways. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2169 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2010 : 04:13:05 AM
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| Noeau has a good point. In an informal, jam type context, wahine players are well represented. The "commercial" world still seems to discount talent, ability and artistry in a part of the populace. |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2010 : 04:53:07 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by maggie
Maybe I'm taking it too seriously, or missing something - like an inside joke that only journalists and professional musicians understand - but who the heck cares what the she wore, and what her nose looked like. It's possible the journalist was desperate for word count - but really, the NY Times can do better than that.
Sorry, Maggie. I am not a fan of the NYT, BTW. |
Andy |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2010 : 07:14:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by kuulei88
Why am I feeling like I wasted my time putting up that post?
There's a problem with the link in the post--it includes a period. Remove that and the page comes up fine.
I would note that the Dancing Cat compilations came out before the release (and maybe even the recording--I'd have to check the notes) of Owana and Cindy's CDs. If there were to be another collection (unlikely since Dancing Cat is mothballed), I'm pretty sure that there would be tracks from both women. The Daniel Ho and Rhythm & Roots releases that I have (I think I'm missing a couple) are of live performances, which shifts the basic question from the recording studio to the stage (and perhaps the record producer's office).
I agree that the real question is why women do not figure more prominently as public slack key players (which to me means as professional performers), and that means looking at how the business end operates, who does the booking, what audiences are perceived to want (or even what they actually do want, as signalled by attendance or revenues), what the working conditions are--as well as the kind of socio-economic issues already pointed to, such as competition from domestic tasks or reluctance to get onto the professional-musician treadmill.
There is also the matter of how slack key is presented to the world, as distinct from how it works inside its home culture. The virtuoso solo player fits well into a non-Hawaiian cultural ecology in the same way the hot bluegrass flatpicker does--but the role of the guitar in bluegrass and even more in Appalachian old-time music is quite different from the spotlight-the-star-picker model. My understanding is that in Hawaiian social music, slack key was not primarily a virtuoso tradition but one rooted in shared singing and dancing--the solo piece was a kind of spice and not the whole meal, except for situations like those described to me by Dennis Kamakahi, where one player (his grandfather, if I recall correctly) would play for the family at the end of a day's work--not quite a lullaby, but certainly a winding-down-and-relaxing situation. And then there is the private and contemplative playing described by any number of players. Putting the guitar at center stage is an artifact of a later, professional-performance model.
A side note: I don't see why men shouldn't have opinions or observations about gender issues--we all live in the same world,and if it requires the attention of everyone to figure out the nature of our social environment and to devise ways of fixing it where it's not working the way it should.
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2010 : 12:54:50 PM
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Owana, Cindy & Brittni have toured together as the "Women of Slack Key" (with Brittni admitting that she's not at a comparable level when it comes to ki ho`alu), but it seems that we come up with very few other female names at that level of fame. I'm glad that no`eau mentioned Joanie Komatsu (he's told me stories about her as well) - she put out at least one amazing album on her own, long ago, and I've always wished she had done more.
As I said before, the success of women in most musical fields evolves. How many women rock-n-rollers could you name before 1967? Not "girl groups" as they were known, but rock-n-roll acts? Post-'67, there are quite a few.
As also noted, there have been successful women for a long time in older forms of music, such as classical (but how many well-known women composers were there prior to the 20th century? Very few, compared to the time since 1900) and jazz (again, how many successful female players/bandleaders before, say, 1950? Some, but few, compared to now), but as other forms of music become popular through the circulation of recordings, the barriers eventually break down.
Will this question be irrelevant by 2020? Or sooner, judging by the numbers of up-and-coming guitarists? Will this dynamic also be changed by the decreasing need to have a record company sign you up in order for your music to get out there? |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2010 : 3:07:18 PM
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We just got finished watching Eddie Kamae's flim about slack key: Ki Ho`alu, Slack Key, The Hawaiian Way
The first thing I noticed is that many of the people he talked to spoke of their mom, auntie or tutu teaching them about slack key. That gives more credence to what we were saying that of backyard players, plenty women played slack key.
He featured spots about Aunty Alice, about Anna Goodhue and about Lisa Smith. But very little about either three of them. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2169 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2010 : 3:59:43 PM
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The prominance due skilled females has waxed and waned through the centuries. We, happily, seem to be on an upswing. Although many European surnames are patrinymic, many show the prominance of females, esp in English. This is shown by the suffix "ster" denoting a female. Thus
Baker (male), Baxter (female), Webber - Webster, Brewer - Brewster, etc. |
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maggie
Aloha
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2010 : 8:19:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Admin
Sorry, Maggie. I am not a fan of the NYT, BTW.
No worries Andy... I grew up before Title Nine, so part of me is still wondering where all the feminists went.  |
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sirduke58
`Olu`olu
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2010 : 10:00:25 PM
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As I stated earlier on a post here in this thread.I have observed that women tend to take a different approach to ki ho'alu than men.The most visible female slack key guitarists of the present time such as Owana Salazar, Haunani Apoliona, Ku'u ipo Kumukahi as well as Auntie Alice Namakelua from the past use/used ki ho'alu more so as a vocal accompaniment.Males on the other hand focus more on ki ho'alu as a means to showcase their technical prowess on the kika. Wheeha Swing...Punahoa Special ......Maunaloa Slack Key.......Opihi Moemoe.......Ku'u ipo Onaona....Slack Key #1....Maori Brown Eyes.....etc. Lots of males come over from Blue Grass & Fingerstyle attracted by the "shedding" aspect of ki ho'alu. I cannot remember witnessing any woman playing the songs mentioned above yet cannot count the number of males who play those because they are pretty much standards. I'm not implying that women do not possess the same ability to play those songs but they just don't seem to appeal to the feminine gender for some reason or other.I guess it's partly that the male mentality is to flaunt his plumage like the peacock. We want to show off LOL Just to clear it up guys "shredding" will impress more guys than women. Shoot for the nahenahe stuff if you're in an amorous state of mind hahahaha
That being said it's no wonder there's not an equivalent number of female representatives in ki ho'alu onstage performing. The marketing attraction of ki ho'alu caters to the male consumer who favors the pyrotechnic facet of slack key ala Ledward Kaapana & the like.Nahenahe slack key is loved by all genders but "Show off" slack key appeals more to us guys.Take note that all the other explanations mentioned in this thread are valid factors as to why it's so male dominant. My suggestions are only from observations I've made & only my opinions for whatever it's worth.
On YouTube there's a cool feature for those who upload videos. It's called "Insight" and it has data collected by YouTube for all public views of your uploaded videos. For instance click on "Discovery" and it will show data of how your viewers found your video. Be it through Related videos..YouTube search...Google...External links...Subscription modules etc. Well there's a "Demographic" category and it breaks down the age groups & genders of your listeners. I have a little over 134,000 views for my 39 videos, 33 of which are slack key or at least contains some.Some interesting statistics:
79% are male viewers as opposed to 21% women or practically a 4 to 1 ratio
Males viewers (by age groups)................79%
13-17.......1%
18-24.......1%
25-34.......3%
35-44......7%
45-54.....38%
55-64.....23%
65+.........6%
Female viewers (by age groups)..............21%
13-17....0.5%
18-24....0.5%
25-34. ..0.5%
35-44.....4%
45-54.....8%
55-64.....7%
65+......0.5%
Can't say exactly what these numbers imply but I belong to the age group that is most passionate about ki ho'alu !!!!!
Aloha
 Duke
PS:Eh Amy if you email me I'll give you my YouTube password so you can log on to my account if you want to crunch those numbers on that YouTube "Insight" feature. |
Hoof Hearted?...Was it you Stu Pedaso? |
Edited by - sirduke58 on 08/18/2010 10:05:57 PM |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2010 : 09:40:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sirduke58
As I stated earlier on a post here in this thread.I have observed that women tend to take a different approach to ki ho'alu than men.The most visible female slack key guitarists of the present time such as Owana Salazar, Haunani Apoliona, Ku'u ipo Kumukahi as well as Auntie Alice Namakelua from the past use/used ki ho'alu more so as a vocal accompaniment.Males on the other hand focus more on ki ho'alu as a means to showcase their technical prowess on the kika. Wheeha Swing...Punahoa Special ......Maunaloa Slack Key.......Opihi Moemoe.......Ku'u ipo Onaona....Slack Key #1....Maori Brown Eyes.....etc. Lots of males come over from Blue Grass & Fingerstyle attracted by the "shedding" aspect of ki ho'alu. I cannot remember witnessing any woman playing the songs mentioned above yet cannot count the number of males who play those because they are pretty much standards. I'm not implying that women do not possess the same ability to play those songs but they just don't seem to appeal to the feminine gender for some reason or other.I guess it's partly that the male mentality is to flaunt his plumage like the peacock. We want to show off LOL Just to clear it up guys "shredding" will impress more guys than women. Shoot for the nahenahe stuff if you're in an amorous state of mind hahahaha
Eh, Brah! Maybe it's testosterone vs. estrogen. |
keaka |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2010 : 10:53:13 AM
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How many times have I heard men say that they took up the guitar in large part to impress women?
(And I've heard at least one woman say the same thing.) |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2010 : 1:10:19 PM
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| It ain't the large guitar that impresses women. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2010 : 1:40:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
It ain't the large guitar that impresses women.
Hey, waitaminit ... I play `UKULELE!!!
(Oh, and bass guitar, so...)
(insert "conflicted smiley" here) |
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Women Playing Slack Key
