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garson
Lokahi
USA
112 Posts |
 Posted - 10/30/2011 : 12:09:06 PM
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| Its time to retire worrying about what is a master. You no wan be a master baiter. |
Jim Garson |
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Doug Fitch
Akahai
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2011 : 11:29:36 PM
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| I like your comments a lot Mark. You're absolutely right and if the whole "Master" thing ever had any validity, it is surely blown by now. Just play, listen, share and smile. Whatevuhs! -Doug |
Doug Fitch
fitchdoug @ yahoo.com
www.dougfitchmusic.com
http://youtube.com/user/dougfitchmusic |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2011 : 05:02:33 AM
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| Well said, Doug! |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2011 : 12:08:14 PM
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Being a master is like being an expert:
- A guy from 50 miles out of town
- Someone who's been through a one week music camp.
Ask someone who's been playing (or working in a field of endeavor) if they're an expert/master and they'll say "Hell no! I hardly know anything.", because they are aware of what they know and how much more is to be learned. Usually, they've forgotten more than most other people have learned. |
keaka |
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Kalanihuia
Aloha
5 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2011 : 7:43:03 PM
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"Master" is usually a title earned by the recipient; someone recognized by those who honor and respect such a person.
I've met Jeff; learned some stuff from him too.
Do I like his ability? Very much so, but I doubt my affection for that can come close to his love for passing on his knowledge of Ki Hoalu to his haumana.
Is he a Master? I doubt that he thinks he is, but I'm sure he feels honored that Hawaiian Music producers, promoters, entertainers, audience, and others, (like myself) feel that he can master Slack Key at any time he chooses...period.
Long story short. I love Slack Key; been practicing it (off & on) for nearly 40 years. If I live and practice for another 100 yrs, I'll never be a Master (as I'm sure our chosen titled honorees feel).
Most masters go to their graves with us recognizing them as being great, but I believe that they truly view themselves as being nothing more than dedicated students of the art they love. |
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cyril
Lokahi
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2011 : 12:05:52 PM
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I think you are asking the wrong question. Or maybe its the talking about it that is off beat. When you ask about Master it asks in whose eyes from whose ears and from whose skill level.
I say get out your guitar and lets kanikapila. You can get your answer to that question. If you can still learn more then you still not one master.
I been playing about as long as any one except maybe Ledward. We first met when we were 12 and we played together growing up. I play every day and I learn a lot from my young boys (Peter and Jeff) at the Kani Ka Pila Grille. For 3 years we been playing in C tuning and so last week I brought out my other guitar and made them play in A every song we do. All night long A. They did good and they still got some things to learn too. And I learn from my wife who studies the culture and music from the knowledge side. some songs I been playing for 50 years and did not know the story behind all of it and the kaona. Can't say I have mastered any of it yet.
In hula there is more structure to the system of who is a kumu hula, who is the geneology of your line, and what is the protocol you went through for being called that title. Or Loea. It is not a title you give yourself. It is something that is passed down when you carry the most skill and information from a certain line. And they still got plenty guys who is now kumu who did not go through the protocol to earn the title.
I was there with my kumu my dad, Atta, Leonard Kwon, and Uncle Sonny. I played with them almost every day and learned what they did know at that time. I practice it every day of my life till now. I call on them every day for inspiration and approval. I play from my heart. I can tell if they are feeling good about my music or not. How I feel at the time.
I try to build on my skills and what sounds good to me. I try to spend time with the kupuna playing out in the country on all the islands when ever they get together an ask me. I learn from them the old styles that came from their family. I go to the sites to do workshops to try to learn the foundation of aloha aina to inspire me and my music. I pay respect to those who gave me their manao and the ones today who still willing to share with us.
In my lifetime I cannot have enough time to master all of this.
I really enjoy playing with Jeff Peterson. He challenges me to not just get by with what the audience is willing to settle for. He pushes me and I push him. I think I will make one album with him this year to see where we can go with our music together. Jeff IS Hawaiian, he has heart and his music is driven from that, he is culturally sensitive to the protocol and he always shows me respect as an uncle who came before him. He asks before he uses my music and recognizes the people who composed it. He never makes up stories about 7 generations of Slack Key Master to impress people. He just learned form his dad and the cowboys on the ranch that was willing to teach him what they knew.
Jeff also spend the time to go to school and learn the music from that side of things. When we teach together, he can explain to the students things I do but can't really explain in music school ways. My teaching was eyes and ears. I can hear everything but maybe not explain what it is from the music school side. I think the students today needs this to go to the next level. Just like really knowing the language. maybe it is not the way the kupuna learned or spoke the language abut they can actually talk it and read and write it. If they learn from both ways like Jeff they can be even better than ever. And they still stay learning.
Instead of arguing about what is a Master get out your guitar and go play with some guys. Playing and really learning to love the music. AND have aloha for those of us Hawaiians still out there playing. Not only critical of them for having aloha for our culture and for trying to be part of it continuing. If you really love slack key you would be watching and listening to Jeff as much as can. He is authentic and the next generation for us. I love his music and respect him for all that he has done to teach me what I can learn from him to master more of slack Key. I planing to share as much of what I know with him and I know he can understand what I sharing. He also composed some great songs already himself.
I also like Makana. Makana plays from the heart. He always plays in slack Key but not always Hawaiian music. Makana is not limited his music. He is creative artists and I respect him for that. I feel proud of him too.
Last week in Seattle I was jamming with Sonny Lim. He will tell you he learned from listening to my music and Gabby's music and by using it to play for his family halau. And then finding teachers around Kohala to teach him more. He is getting very good now and is also one of the ones to spend some time playing with and listening to. And I been learning some songs from Kohala lately that his family recorded many years ago. Some good songs about the places there. He has some things I can learn from him. I like go up and kaniapila with him and my nephew Kunia and the cowboys on the ranch and Leabert. Good fun and lots of learning to get too.
I think the right question is what guys can I still learn something from and how can we learn more together? Try ask the right question and then open your heart and listen with aloha.
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Cyril Pahinui
cyril.cyrilpahinui.com |
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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2011 : 8:00:16 PM
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quote:
I think you are asking the wrong question
Can we just inscribe this post, this wisdom, this love for the music forever for future generations?
Larry |
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sirduke58
`Olu`olu
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2011 : 8:52:57 PM
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I have a suggestion.............How about we give George Winston back his "Slack Key Master" label & replace it with "Slack Key Virtuoso" which is a distinction more suitable? A few great examples come to mind immediately,such as..............
Cyril Pahinui: I would venture to assume that he plays Atta's/Cyril's C tuning (C-G-E-G-C-E) better than anyone on the planet. He has opened up that tuning so much that he has no limitations on it. He can make any chord his heart desires to go with his complex ki'hoalu.
Ledward Ka'apana: He executes his pyrotechnic style of ki ho'alu flawlessly. Next time you listen to Led try to count how many mistakes you hear i.e wrong note, playing out of sync, unintentional muffed note etc etc............you'll find there are none!!!! Ozzie brought this fact to my attention. Ledward is flawless!!! His speed & accuracy is unmatched. He's also the best at going from Taropatch to Drop C & standard tuning so seamlessly. Plus no one can touch Led as an entertainer. He can make your jaw drop to the floor one second then make you laugh your butt off the next.
Ozzie Kotani: His arppegios are so fast & full, no one in the ki ho'alu community can match him. No one has opened up Taropatch like Oz has. He can find anything in Taropatch but he is also solid in many other tunings like C6th Maunaloa etc. Ozzie is also a very very good composer. Unfortunately it is my opinion that people will not fully appreciate Ozzie until he's gone because he prefers to stay out of the limelight.
These are the Big 3 when I personally think of the term "Slack Key Virtuosos" I don't think anyone could dispute that these guys earned that title. There are others IMHO that could carry the "Slack Key Virtuoso" label with very little opposition like Sonny Lim, Keola Beamer,Don Kaulia to name a few.
Unlike "Slack Key Master" I would not be offended if "Slack Key Virtuoso" were bestowed upon other slack key players who I am not overly impressed by(Just a personal preference). If someone referred to other slack players like Makana, Danny Carvalho, George Kahumoku Jr. Bobby Moderow, Kimo West,Jeff Peterson, Ben Kaili as "Slack Key Virtuosos". I could not argue against their opinion..........Let's adopt the term "Slack Key/Ki ho'alu Virtuoso" and dump "Slack Key Master". Much less controversial & more fitting description.
BTW Cyril, Ozzie & Ledward all laugh off the term "Slack Key Master" none are comfortable with the term but if not them then who? I agree 100% with them. Instead of arguing what is a "Master" just bust out your kikas, share the ki ho'alu mana'o and "Jus Press" |
Hoof Hearted?...Was it you Stu Pedaso? |
Edited by - sirduke58 on 11/29/2011 05:39:04 AM |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2011 : 05:29:10 AM
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| Well said, Duke and Cyril! Too many times the competitive culture causes us to lose track of the communication of music. Everyone brings something different that is them. Cyril, you're right... I always tell guys that the way to learn is jam, have fun, watch and listen. |
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cyril
Lokahi
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2011 : 11:37:15 AM
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I stay in the "kupuna status" that means I spend my whole life playing slack key. over 50 years now. So I just like be called "kupuna" and go with the cultural respect that goes with the title.
I also don't like being classified in one category. I play in every tuning. I just happen to like the C tuning for the cord work. I always play in D when I jam with uncle brudda -Bla. He always likes playing in D. And I am starting to play in A tuning again to get to some new old sounds. And going back to the 12 string for a while so the boys can learn to work with that for a change. For me I need to go back to some of these so my students can learn them. They starting to getting too comfortable in C now so need to push them a little.
Lookin forward to spending Christmas out in the Homestead with the cowboys for a kanikapila. And Molokai He Huaka'i in February to play with the guys on Moloka'i.
I have been talking with Mike Kelly about releasing the radio series before he retires so everyone can get some inputs from the kupuna that was interviewed back when times. We have a lot of these on tapes we listen to and there is some good information you can learn about the subjects of Hawaiian music and Slack Key. |
Cyril Pahinui
cyril.cyrilpahinui.com |
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Kalanihuia
Aloha
5 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2011 : 6:40:06 PM
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| Virtuoso. I like that. |
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walterotter
Aloha
United Kingdom
20 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2011 : 02:32:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
I know this is going to cause a maelstrom, but here goes:
"Art," said Picasso "washes the dust of everyday life from the soul" and such it is, master like genius gets tossed around, in my definition its not a thing I can measure, I just have to feel it.
In that respect I think of Miles Davis, his shakey start alongside Parker and Gillespie in the forties and the flowering of his sound through the fifties and sixties. There are tons of technically gifted jazzers and there's Miles and his artistry.
The late Jackie Leven who passed through the door marked summer just recently in these shires (who played celtic music in open E tuning like some kinda celtic soul brother to Hawaiin slack key) once gave a talk in the woods around here about Rilke and blood remembering. In essence Leven had it as that there are many gifted young artists but in Rilke's notion the journey takes a lifetime and you reach a point when you can pour out those experience in blood remembering, the blood of your very soul.
One time an old bluesman from Mississippi David Honeyboy Edwards came to play in town here. He was supported by a British finger picking fan who was good enough in his way and had all the tecnique what he lacked was what this old man of eighty had, the first three notes he pulled from his guitar, most simple and evocative notes had me down a dirt road following the telegraph poles to a juke joint in Mississippi.
Hence I think that those that are technically and emotionally good players are on thing those that pour it from there very souls are another. Hence every day when I pick up my Concert Uke I play a Johnny Almeida tune from Mark Nelson's slack key uke buke called Kowali a simple enough tune for my lot to learn fingers but within it i hear the church bells of Johnny Almeida's upbringing snd I find the fragerance of the flower and hear the sound of the water on some far away beach so very far from my own.
Almeida like Ellington, has that touch, I call it genius and don't mind what you call it . . .
javascript:insertsmilie(' ')
Mike
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'the lights in the sky are stars . . .' |
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Slack "MASTER" designation
