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GUke
Lokahi
188 Posts |
 Posted - 02/10/2011 : 12:48:56 PM
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I have heard "oe" sung in mele as "oy (- as in boy)" in the mele ALOHA 'OE and in other mele. I have also heard "oe" sung as "oh - eh" in the mele ALOHA 'OE and in the mele I KONA.
Is this another: I was taught it that way and so I sing it that way,
or the correct pronunciation is ____, but it is sung both ways?
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Genaro
Should I? Itʻs only $, and where Iʻm going itʻll burn or melt. |
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Allen M Cary
Lokahi
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2011 : 3:04:44 PM
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I'm no expert, but have studied a bit of Hawaiian. The correct pronunciation is always to pronounce each letter--consonant or vowel. Therefore the oh-eh is right, especially with the okina, where the "oh" has the gluttal stop at the beginning of the oh-sound (like uh-oh, in English usage.) Like in all language there are dialectical differences and just plain lazy speech which can explain the 'oe becoming oy.
Aloha,
Allen |
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GUke
Lokahi
188 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2011 : 6:45:39 PM
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| Just to follow up, I have an app for my Apple devices "Hawaiian Phrases". And for almost all of the phrases where " ʻoe " was a part, the speaker pronounced it as " oy ". Must be one of those Hawaiian diphthong things like " ia " pronounced as " ya ". Suppose if you said oh - eh fast enough youʻd say the oh and get lazy and start the " eh " dropping off the " h ". So youʻd say "oh -e" and it would sound like to this haole ear as " oy " |
Genaro
Should I? Itʻs only $, and where Iʻm going itʻll burn or melt. |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2011 : 7:35:09 PM
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I only get one BA in ʻōlelo Hawaiʻi but. I always thought that ʻoe was pronounced like ʻoe not ʻoh way or ʻoh we. And what the heck is oh eh. Alaso we have said time and again there are no diphthongs in Hawaiian language. Stop, please, comparing and analyzing Hawaiian with English grammatical features. It does not work that way. the pronunciation of ʻoe in speaking sounds sort of like oeee with the ending not as stretched out as I wrote it. It is difficult to write an example of the word. We learned by hearing it spoken over and over until we got it nailed down. The same went for words that end in i like ʻoi. I have heard many differences when the language is sung, chanted, or just spoken either in slow speech or fast speech. I wuld like Allen to clarify what he was trying to say because I donʻt understand what he meant. t
The ʻokina does not tell one how a word should sound. It is a consonant that replaced the letter K that is present in other Polynesian languages. One
only hears the oh oh sound in words that have two o separated by an ʻokina such as hoʻo or poʻo and so forth. Dialects may occur from island to island or moku to moku but ʻoe is a word that is usually pronounced the same everywhere. Some examples of difference would deal with words like ʻaʻole where some people say ʻaʻale or just plain ʻale in place of the word ʻaʻole. ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi is a very complex language and cannot be explained by using knowledge from English. Hawaiian language should be studied in Hawaiian ways. Donʻt forget that not every recording uses the language correctly. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
Edited by - noeau on 02/15/2011 7:38:15 PM |
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Allen M Cary
Lokahi
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2011 : 05:28:03 AM
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Noeau,
I am sorry if as one English speaker to another I have to stoop to comparing Hawaiian sounds to English. I understand that they can only be approximations. This is true in nearly every language, I happen to speak four and know this intimately.
With aloha,
Allen |
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GUke
Lokahi
188 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2011 : 2:30:38 PM
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Noeau,
Mahalo for your clarification. Sorry for the reference to ʻoe sounding like " oh eh". My ear did not pickup up that "w" sound until you pointed it out. And sorry for the reference to the diphthong (just did not know of a way to explain).
So in speaking I understand why ʻoe sounds. But in singing I am hearing ʻoe sung both as in speaking and oh we. In Uncle George Kahumoku, Jr.ʻs version of Pane Mai I believe I am hearing both.
I appreciate how complex Hawaiian language is. Just want to be sure that pronunciation is as correct as can be. |
Genaro
Should I? Itʻs only $, and where Iʻm going itʻll burn or melt. |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2011 : 4:40:54 PM
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| Its all good. Of course we always relate from a familiar viewpoint. I was not scolding and if I sounded like that I did not mean it to be taken in that light. Some people as regards to the pronunciation of the word either with or without the w say it is OK. I agree with that since if we listen to chants we will hear all sorts of ways to say a word that is not like spoken language at all. I am just trying to point out that written explanations sometimes are very difficult and immersion seems to be a way to learn some of the nuances of a language. Hawaiian is not exclusive to that convention not by a long shot. I am also glad that you all want to learn what is correct in face of so many variants that pop up. It might be better not to attach any reasons but just attempt to figure out in what context do the variants appear and then make some sense of it if that is possible. So in the spirit of sharing I hope not sound like a know it all nor do I mean to scold any one who has sincere curiosity and wants to properly learn what they can. Try this one out E holomua ʻoukou i ka lanakila. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
Edited by - noeau on 02/16/2011 4:41:16 PM |
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Topic |
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How to sing " oe or 'oe "
