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guitar yogi
Akahai
Kiribati
67 Posts |
 Posted - 02/25/2011 : 6:06:52 PM
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Forgive me if this topic has been explored here before, but does anyone exactly what kind of 12-string guitar Cyril Pahinui plays on the album "Night Moon/Po Mahina"? On some songs on this album he plays in Open C Major/Atta's C tuning slacked all the way down to A or B flat. The tone he gets is simply amazing. But when I slack my Takamine 12-string down that much, the lowest strings buzz or "flab out". Does he play a Baritone 12-string? A custom-made guitar? Also, on the album "Black Sand", Led Kaapana plays 12-string on two songs: "Waikanaio" and "Highway to Hana". These are my favorite songs on the album, in fact, two of my favorite songs of all time. Anyone know exactly what kind of 12-string Led uses?
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 7:24:45 PM
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I don't know what he used for the recording, but Cyril does have his Dad's old Martin 12 string. He may have others as well. You might try a heavier gauge of strings on yours. You can only loosen strings so much before they sound like rubber bands.
Unko Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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guitar yogi
Akahai
Kiribati
67 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 5:05:36 PM
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| Thanks Paul. I was checking the liner notes for "Black Sand", the correct spelling of that song is "Waiakanaio" and Led is playing a Taylor 12-string. I love those "waterfall" intros that he does- incredible music by a great artist! |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 6:27:26 PM
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That narrows it down a bit, but Taylor makes at least 10 acoustic and acoustic/electric 12 string models. Don't start lusting yet, try heavier strings first. Also, there's the whole bag of variables- room acoustics, mic selection and placement, EQ, effects etc. All of what you hear may not be pure guitar sound.The hard walled room you played in at the music store won't sound like your soft living room full of cushioned furniture. And add to this the marvel of hands- specifically Led's and Cyril's- and you have an upmauka climb. GAS is a hard thing to live with.
Unko Paul
edit- I can't believe I said BAS instead of GAS! Which site am I on? |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
Edited by - rendesvous1840 on 02/26/2011 6:28:40 PM |
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guitar yogi
Akahai
Kiribati
67 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2011 : 08:51:31 AM
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| All good points. I think I will change the strings on my Takamine from extra lights to a thicker gauge. GAS IS bad news!("Gear Acquisition Syndrome" for the uninitiated.) That's why I don't use credit cards- this prevents me from buying stuff that I don't need. Great tone comes from the heart, soul and fingers, not from an expensive guitar. (But I'm still curious about their guitars!) |
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salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2011 : 09:37:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by guitar yogi
All good points. I think I will change the strings on my Takamine from extra lights to a thicker gauge. GAS IS bad news!("Gear Acquisition Syndrome" for the uninitiated.) That's why I don't use credit cards- this prevents me from buying stuff that I don't need. Great tone comes from the heart, soul and fingers, not from an expensive guitar. (But I'm still curious about their guitars!)
Yogi
A couple things to keep in mind when you change the strings.
1) there are several string tension calculators available on the web. You should find one and use it to calculate both the individual and total string tensions for a given set of strings and tuning. Be sure to check what the tension does if you put heavier strings on and then go back to a tuning that has higher notes in it.
2) you might want to check out the Takamine forum (takamineforum.com) and see what the knowledgable folk there say about your particular model of Tak and string tension. Dependng on which model you have, you may have quite a few options.
Dave |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 07:46:56 AM
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I believe George Kahumoku played a Takamine 12 string at a workshop a few years ago, tuned to open F (CFCFAC lo to high). Sonny Lim has a Bb tuning we all used at Aloha camp several years ago, and I don;t recall any "buzzers" in the crowd. I had light strings on my travel guitar and still no problem with the Bb. You might want to check not only string gauge, but also the setup on your guitar. It is winter, perhaps she is drying out a bit, saddle sinking, and the buzz cold be a slackened string vibrating against a fret somewhere.
BTW, if you simply MUST get a 12 string specifically made for low tunings, the Taylor Leo Kottke SM is the beast you need. |
Karl
Frozen North |
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Bau
Lokahi
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2011 : 12:38:04 AM
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Lots of good suggestions here :)
I've been wondering what slack tuning I should try on my 12.
aside from the string tension issue,
What is everyones preference and favorite tunings for 12 string?
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2011 : 11:13:59 AM
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| I used to have an Epiphone 12. I used taropatch, G Wahine. I used light guage strings and the low E got kind of flabby if I put down to low C for Leonard's C. |
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guitar yogi
Akahai
Kiribati
67 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2011 : 4:42:15 PM
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| Thanks for all the input! Because of my concern over string/neck tension and the fact that I already had a fresh unopened pack of Martin extra-lights, I decided to just change my strings, but keep the same gauge on my 12 string. The tone is much improved with the fresh strings in Taro patch and G Wahine, but I still don't like the feel or tone when I slack the lowest string pair down to B or lower. In fact, I just can't get the hang of it when I try to play in slacked Atta's C (Open C down to B) anyway, so I'm putting this C tuning on the back burner for a while while I keep learning and writing more songs in Taro Patch and G Wahine on my 12 string and Leonard's Drop C and regular Drop D on my 6 string. In fact, I would also recommend Taro Patch G, mainland Open D and G Wahine tunings especially for 12 string guitars, but leave some of the other tunings for 6 string guitars. BTW, I also like Leo Kottke's 12 string sound (WOW!),but I don't think I could spend that much on a guitar right now! |
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John Neff
Aloha
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2011 : 08:26:04 AM
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I was there when Steve Siegfried of Panini Records presented Gabby's restored Martin 12-string to Cyril at the start of the "Pahinui Brothers" sessions in August of 1991. It was recorded at the studio I had with Walter Becker in Ulupalakua, Maui.
Last year Cyril played in Marin County, CA, where I had a studio for 6 years, and I interviewed him on the radio for his upcoming show. We told the story of how the 12-string was recovered from the Hard Rock Cafe in Lahaina and how it had been stolen from Pops's apartment the day he died, and I asked him if he used it on his then current CD 'He'eia'. He said that Steve Siegfried had the guitar (Steve originally bought it for Gabby from Harry's Music in Honolulu, still had the original receipt, and that was how he got it back). Funny, I didn't ask Cyril what he was currently playing, as I was so surprised at what he had just said. During the 'Brothers' sessions, we all surmised that Steve had given the guitar to Cyril. Anyway, when Cyril came to Maui to start the record, he had a Takamine 12-string. |
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cyril
Lokahi
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 11:20:48 AM
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Aloha,
OK den this is interesting discussion. And I do have my dad's 12 string and steel guitar but I don't play them. I use the steel bar once in a while when I teach in Hilo cause it is very different form those you buy and sounds great. My dad had it made. I am thinking of making one as a Gabby Brand product to help raise funding for the Hawaiian Museum of Music and Dance. And that is another upcoming discussion.
On my Night Moon and other albums, I use my own Martin 12 string. It was bought for me by George Winston at pawn shop in S. F. I picked it out by sound of it like I do all my guitars. Then George took it to the shop and had some work done to it. It was pretty beat up but good sound.
I used this guitar on all of the Dancing Cat recordings and if you want to see what it looks like it is in the photos of my He'eia album taken at He'eia Beach in Kona by my wife Chelle.
When George sent it to the shop along with a 6 string guitar I had they did some repairs and then added extra strings to the guitar. So the 6 string guitar has an added string so it was a 7 string guitar.
And the 12 string has an added 2 strings so it is a 14 string guitar.
But actually we never did use the extra string in the recording we put on the album so it was still 6 and 12 strings used to record. The 7 and 14 strings recordings is on some unreleased recordings.
I only use Martin strings on all my guitars. And I always use my Dad's C tuning known as Atta's C tuning because Atta also loved that tuning and used it. My dad's favorite C has one string different. Atta's C is the best for me. And once you learn the cords you can play anything. So come to my workshops any time to learn it if you like learn.
On my 6 string I always use medium gauge for the 12 string I use light gauge Martins.
When you pick out a guitar you have to listen to the sound. It doesn't matter how much it costs or who makes it. I can pick up hundreds and only find one I really like the sound.
And bruddah call me anytime you like ask a question like this or email me at cyril @ cyrilpahinui.com and I will be glad to share with you.
Cyril
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Cyril Pahinui
cyril.cyrilpahinui.com |
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guitar yogi
Akahai
Kiribati
67 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2011 : 10:10:38 AM
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| Cyril, thank you very much for all the information. I'm glad that your father's guitar was returned. I'm starting to get the hang of Atta's C now on my Takamine 12-string. It sounds really nice, as long as I don't slack down to B flat or A. I hope I can get a chance to see you this fall at the festival in Seattle! (I live in Oregon.)(And I hope my old truck can make it up to Seattle without falling apart!) Matthew |
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Mike Anderson
Akahai
Canada
84 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 3:23:46 PM
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Sorry I missed this thread, because I just read Uncle Cyril saying he is thinking about marketing a Gabby Brand steel guitar tone bar.
Count me IN!!! :D |
It's never too late to have a happy childhood! |
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Robert Pater
Aloha
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2011 : 12:04:06 PM
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I was fortunate to be able to attend a short guitar workshop with Cyril Pahinui a few weeks ago - excellent player, teacher, person. He gave out a handout on some of his Open C tuning chords (CGEGCE).
I was wondering if anyone can direct me to find a source for more chords in this tuning?
Mahalo
Robert Pater |
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Mike Anderson
Akahai
Canada
84 Posts |
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Cyril's and Led's 12-string guitars??
