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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
 Posted - 05/16/2011 : 01:05:00 AM
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In traditional Hawaiian music, are there any songs that would be considered "the blues". That is one thing that has attracted me to Hawaiian music...the music never sounds "down". There are some songs that certainly have something to complain about: "Kaulana Na Pua", Lai Toodle, "Keyhole Hula", but even still, they are not bemoaning anything, they are still sweet music in primarily major keys.
Question: are there "blues" songs in traditional Hawaiian music? I do not mean soomething like "Nanakuli Blues" and other such "modern" music.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Konabob
`Olu`olu
USA
928 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 06:33:49 AM
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I rarely hear anything that sounds like "the blues", except for the occasional haole blues band, here in Kona. A few years ago, Dennis Kamakahi was teaching songwriting at Keoki Kahumoku's camp in Pahala, and my friend (a Taropatch Member) played us a "blues" tune with a Hawaiian vamp tagged on at the end. Dennis got very quiet, then politely suggested that the song should be either blues or Hawaiian, but not both.
Bob Brozman explained to a class once, that the Blues is recognizable by the flatted 3rd and 7th notes, and that Hawaiian is recognizable by the use of the 2nd.
I have always enjoyed bluegrass, which is generally really happy sounding music about murder, broken hearts, and hard times. Hawaiian music is mostly about beautiful aina, beautiful women, and when do we eat?
Aloha,
-Konabob |
Konabob's Walkingbass - http://www.konawalkingbass.com
Taropatch Steel - http://www.konaweb.com/konabob/
YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Konabob2+Walkingbass |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 07:09:11 AM
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I agree with Bob. Blues is basically an African based music, which is not Hawaiian. However, once the Hawaiians heard blues rec0ordings, they incorporated it into hapa haole songs. One of the earliest recordings of steel guitar is W.C. Handy's "Yellow Dog Blues" by David Napihi Burrows back in the 20's.
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keaka |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 07:58:59 AM
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Defining blues as "down" sounding is pretty limiting, if you ask me. Blues is the basis of jazz, and jazz is a huge part of Hawaiian music of the 20s, 30s, and 40s. One of the bluesiest recordings I've ever heard is "Kaleponi" by Kalama's Quartet. The vocal melody is surrounded by two acoustic steel guitars playing some mighty funky stuff that I would call pure blues. This is the only early Hawaiian album I'm familiar with but I'd be surprised if this group was the only one with a similar sound.
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 08:04:08 AM
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The only "blue" note in Hawaiian music that is really noticeable is the flatted 5 note (in G that would be a C# or Db, dat note get 2 names). You hear Led use it in slack key among others. It was the first thing I had to get used to when I learned. What a cool thing it is. Interestingly, Slovenian-American polka music uses it, also.
All cultures sing the blues, it's part of life on the planet to deal with adversity, disappointment, etc and then summon the courage to laught at the situation. |
Edited by - thumbstruck on 05/16/2011 08:06:10 AM |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 12:52:36 PM
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| Upon further reflection on examples dealing with the question at hand, listen to the albums Gabby made with Ry Cooder on mandolin and tiple. Of all the guys on the album, you can tell that Ry is not playing Hawaiian. He's good, but his improvisations are "mainland", bluesy. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 2:39:24 PM
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i agree with what you say Kory. Is that the same kind of thing that Brozman does, too? Lots of his stuff sounds almost like bottleneck slide kinda music and reminds me of blues not of Hawaiian music, even if he is accompanying Cyril or Uncle George.
But what I was really trying to get to is that there are song -- the words of the songs -- that would fit into the blue or lament type category. That's why i cited for example, Keyhole Hula, where a dirty dog of a cheatin' jerk told the woman to come around and then she found the door locked. She peered through the keyhole and say the dirty slimy dog occupied with some other hootchie mama. Now if that ain't a blues type subject matter, i don't know what.
And Lai Toodle -- the mean haole bossman, riding around on a big white horse, lording it all over the underlings, treating them like dirt, kicking them around.
Or Kaulana Na Pua - hell no we won't sign your stupid document giving you our land. We'd rather eat rocks. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 2:41:41 PM
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I hit enter too quickly.
So I meant to ask if you can think of other mele that are not about love or beautiful places or beautiful women or things we like to eat, but rather about hard topics, tough life, lamentation kind of things. Like my wife ran away and so did my hound dog kinda things. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1022 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 3:17:13 PM
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| Just because it hasn't been done, doesn't mean it can't. Mark Nelson does a "blues" version of Opihi Moe Moe using a a slide and a blues feel. The first time I heard it, I thought "cool". I couldn't care less if it isn't one or the other (Hawaiian or Blues); I liked it. I'm also getting weary of people telling me what I can or can't consider Hawaiian (but that's another story). |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 3:36:08 PM
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| The late John Hartford said, "Style is based on limitation." Tempos, scales, instruments etc help to define a style. |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 4:21:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
i agree with what you say Kory. Is that the same kind of thing that Brozman does, too? Lots of his stuff sounds almost like bottleneck slide kinda music and reminds me of blues not of Hawaiian music, even if he is accompanying Cyril or Uncle George.
But what I was really trying to get to is that there are song -- the words of the songs -- that would fit into the blue or lament type category. That's why i cited for example, Keyhole Hula, where a dirty dog of a cheatin' jerk told the woman to come around and then she found the door locked. She peered through the keyhole and say the dirty slimy dog occupied with some other hootchie mama. Now if that ain't a blues type subject matter, i don't know what.
And Lai Toodle -- the mean haole bossman, riding around on a big white horse, lording it all over the underlings, treating them like dirt, kicking them around.
Or Kaulana Na Pua - hell no we won't sign your stupid document giving you our land. We'd rather eat rocks.
Bob's original inspiration was the acoustic steel guitar of the prewar (WWII) era. Have you listened to Sol Ho`opi`i?
On the "downer" topic side of things, "Ka Makani Ka `Ili Aloha" - The Love Snatching Wind. Read through the Kihei De Silva essays, check "Ninipo Ho`onipo i ke Aloha," "Alekoki," and the real bummer, "He Aloha Moku o Keawe" written in the cold and gloom of San Francisco to express the heart-rending longing for the island of great chief Keawe.
"My Island Maui" sounds like a travel poster at first, but on repeated listenings it's a sad story of the loss of one's home to progress and one's own failings, or at least that's what I hear.
My favorite example is one that sounds happy and cheerful but represents a soul in pain: "Nani Ka`ala" tells of a woman driven to drift from place to place (man to man) seeking something that cannot be found.
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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ricdoug
`Olu`olu
USA
513 Posts |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 01:37:31 AM
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Thanks, Fran, for pointing out more examples to me. For sure "He Aloha Moku O Keawe". That was written by the Emalia Kaihumua who was sung about in the song "Hilo One". Uncle Kihei tells a very sad story of her life. She missed her homeland so very much. She lived a tragic life, eventually dying in an insane asylum.
"Ka Makani Ka `Ili Aloha" does sound so very plaintive. Each of the examples you cited is an example of what I was looking for. Maybe even "Pua Lilia". As George Kuo explains so well, the guy in the song is very sad because he finds out his beloved lily flower has already been "plucked". "Maunaloa" is the ultimate brush off song. Yeah, OK. I am seeing there are a lot more examples of this than i earlier thought.
And Terry -- What I intended this to be about is not what is Hawaiian or what is not Hawaiian, rather, just as Fran helped me with -- songs that have the types of topics that could be considered subject matter that has frequently been sung about in blues songs as well. You like what you like and that is only your business. I did not mean it to be about any new music; rather to look at the words in the poetry of traditional songs for subject matter that is not always happy even though the melodies in the songs are so deceptively sweet and upbeat.
I guess I must be way too tired of the incessant rain here in Ohio. See what lack of sun can do? it brings on the blues. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 03:39:47 AM
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We get plenny clouds an' rain, Seattle side. You can tell the natives here from the out-of-staters, the natives don't have umberellas.
I remember my grandmother singing sad songs in Swedish (funny ones, too). The ability to complain shows that one has standards. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 04:28:07 AM
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Eh Kory. Then I must have plenny standards because I complain plenny.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 08:06:06 AM
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Wanda -
It's amazing, but I can't believe you raise this topic at a time when I was actually researching (what I have been calling) Hawaiian "torch" songs - and, specifically, songs about unrequited love. I got to thinking about this because I am a huge fan of Hawaiian music (duh!) but, also, I am a huge fan of Frank Sinatra who delivered a torch song like nobody else.
So, there are lots of songs of this kind - love songs that do not necessarily have a happy ending (or whose ending is unknown because the story does not end with the song). No Ke Aha, Ho'onanea, Ei Nei, Kawaipunahele, E Huli Ho'i Mai, 'Ahulili, Hi'ilawe, Ipo Lei Manu, Kauoha Mai, Hilihila'ole 'Oe, Hali'i Ka Moena, Adios Ke Aloha... But to your point, none of these sound as dire as the mele really imply.
This is because, I think, of a long-standing tradition among haku mele to deliberately mismatch the message of the mele and the sound of the music. (Noelani Mahoe writes about this - briefly - in the preface to "101 Hawaiian Songs.") I think of this as a type of "musical kaona" - masking the plaintive meaning of the song with a more joyous melody and chord structure. (This is not unlike funeral dirges in New Orleans. Listen to a brass band play a New Orleans funeral, and if you close your eyes you would think it was a wedding!)
Hawai'i's haku mele are the masters of layering the meanings in their work. Why not layer them within the melody and chords, too?
I discussed this with Moon Kauakahi...nearly 20 years ago now. And he takes a different approach. (He mentioned this briefly in his interview in Jay Hartwell's "Na Mamo: Hawaiian People Today.") Moon's approach - and it is evident in the Makaha Sons' work - is to make the arrangement of a song sound as much like the story of the song as possible - a sort of "tone poem" - so that audiences that do not understand the Hawaiian language can still find meaning in the song.
My mother gave me a definition of music that she co-opted from her music theory courses. (I have not heard such a convoluted definition since.) She said, "Music is sound that has been organized and, through the system of organization, conveys mood and motion through orchestration and form." That is such a loaded defintion, but this is what Moon was talking about. What he suggests is that sad songs should sound sad, and ironic songs should sound ironic. (And I am thinking now of the Makaha Sons arrangement for 'A'ole La**.) It is possible to do. But it is another kind of poetry entirely - and typically Hawaiian - to avoid such a western convention.
- Bill
**Sadly, I believe this is now being referred to as the "Governor's Hula."
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Edited by - hwnmusiclives on 05/17/2011 08:12:49 AM |
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"The Blues" in Hawaiian Music
