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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
 Posted - 02/01/2004 : 6:55:38 PM
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Howdy all.
I'm about six months into recovery from a very weird shoulder injury that has seriously messed up my guitar playing -- not to mention just about every other aspect of my life. I'm curious if anyone else oput there has had something similar.
Here's the skinny: on a flight last summer I noticed a biting pain in my left arm when I put my carry-on in the over head bin (for the record, it was a bodhran...). Things got worse over the summer, then in the Fall I realized I could no longer lift my arm... period. Just holding the guitar was painful... thank God for the `ukulele!
The diagnosis? "Impingement syndrom" ... "frozen shoulder" ... "encapsulation"...."bursitus" ... and, (my favorite, from my acupunturist) "50 Year Old Shoulder." Trust the Chinese to cut to the chase.
It appears to be extremely common -- and hits middle aged folks who play guitar with a vengance. I know of about half a dozen just in my immediate circle.
What causes it? Who knows? Some candidates: Old injuries. Slouching over a computer moniter all day. Practicing the guitar for hours and hours over many years. Turning 50. Reaching up over your head to grap the freaking bodhran....
So -- any one had it?
Anyone want to know what to do so you don't get it?
I'm considering writing this up, along with some prescriptions for preventing it, for one of the guitar magazines to alert folks. So I'd appreciate your input.
Trust me, you do not want to go through this.
Thanks,
Mark
PS: Physical therapy has helped. I'm working towards having my chops back up by the end of this month -- but it'll be a while till I can play four sets again.
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wdf
Ha`aha`a
USA
1153 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2004 : 7:28:55 PM
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Hey Mark!
Sorry to hear about your condition. I've had similar pains but more in my right shoulder then the left. Rotating the joint (shoulder, that is  ) by swinging my arm in a circular motion forward and backward seems to help ease the pain and eventually eliminate it. It appears less frequently if I keep up the rotations even when I don't have the pain.
Aloha. |
Dusty |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2004 : 10:34:44 PM
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Mark,
Know exactly what your talking about. For me it also included numbness in my fingers.
To telescope the long story -- I finally got to working with a body therapist who specializes in such things -- lots of stretching, messaging, working on the fascia. I have been completely symptom free for almost 2 years ---
The kicker in this is that the musclu-skeleton system is precisely that - a system. Muscles in the arm, shoulder are connected to muscles across your chest and back. These muscles are also strongly affected by muscle in legs, etc -- (Trying not to break into song here.) The damage was cause not just by playing guitar, but bad lots of years of bad posture PLUS the extra stress of playing guitar. I tried lots of different approaches for about 2 to 2 1/2 years, but until I got in touch with Aaron who took a very systematic approach, I didn't get great or lasting success.
Now -well that's part of why I get "preachy" about posture and hand dynamics.
If you want more info on this approach, email me through my link here.
Raymond Stovich
San Jose |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2004 : 11:40:45 PM
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Mark,
Major bummer to hear about your shoulder. Hope you'll be back on your guitar for four sets soon.quote:
Anyone want to know what to do so you don't get it?
As one of the 30-somethings here, I definitely would like to hear how not to get it.
In regard to research for your article, and in my little experience, I hear more emphasis on "proper" technique in Hawaiian steel guitar. Through your contacts, see if you can contact John Ely. Read about him in "Frozen Shoulder" Blamed on Steel Guitar Playing. I think he's on Maui.
Look forward to reading more about this topic here and in the one of the guitar magazines. Stay healthy. |
Andy |
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catheglass
Lokahi
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2004 : 01:56:47 AM
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Aloha Mark:
The same sort of ailment had troubled me occasionally, only I called it "glassmaker's elbow" because that's where it usually hurt. Repeditive motion can be a culprit, as well as staying in the wrong posture for long periods of time. Most of these problems can start with the spine, especially T-2,T-3 and T-4, then it's exascerbated by the muscles and fascia.
The things that worked for me were: Feldenkreis exercises (most community colleges have classes, books and videos are everywhere available)talking with an occupational therapist (to reposition myself while working) and yoga exercises. Best of luck. |
cathe |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
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richard
Aloha
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2004 : 4:22:52 PM
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Aloha Mark:
Sounds like classical bursitus of the shoulder. The first time I got it I was 50, and it cost me a car. I was driving to work every day over a mountain road with 200 turns in a car that lacked both power steering and automatic shift. Got dianosed, got rid of the classic Beemer (the car, not Keola), and the bursitus went away.
The bursa are grooves on the end of bones that tendons slide through. When the lubrication dries up or there's so much stress that they swell up, the tendon gets pinched and the bursa gets irritated. Ouch.
I got a bum shoulder last year, I expect from lots of luggage lifting and guitar playing. I saw an orthopedist who gave me a cortisone shot in the shoulder, told me to stop lifting anything over 10 pounds to shoulder level, and hold my left elbow to my body when playing the guitar. The pain went away in 3 days and hasn't come back.
Good luck, Mark.
Richard |
Edited by - richard on 02/02/2004 5:11:41 PM |
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Bwop
Lokahi
USA
244 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2004 : 6:22:22 PM
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Aloha e Mark,
Man, I've been exploring the stark realities of hitting fifty for at least two years now (I can't feed my body like I did in High School, and a week back pack doesn't "whip me back into shape"). I'm heartbroken.
Preventative stuff is way good. Keoki Kahumoku is real good at explaining ergonomics of playing (the gist of which is, stay RELAXED and loose, minimize motion, etc.). Notice body responses (I used to get numb in one leg if I played standing up), and stay in balance (Jerry Garcia put so many gizmos in his guitar-- 14 pounds worth-- it eventually curved his spine).
I had a shoulder malady last year. Chiropractic helped, as did more chiropractic. Osteopathy (new one for me) was good, too. But nothing ultimately stopped my bad shoulder. Until I returned to Hawai'i. It wasn't "rest" (I jumped into putting up the tents for the slack key workshop), just the curative powers of the ocean and the healing of Hawai'i nei.
I've asked my doctor to perscribe a trip for any malady I have (and, fo' reals, it REALY does work). |
Bwop |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2004 : 7:47:55 PM
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Ye-oww! I walked (and probably talked) like Johnny Depp (as Cap'n Jack Sparrow). But I digress...
Anybody else notice that Johnny was doing a dead-on Keith Richards? Now THAT woulda been casting!
I've opted not to do the cortisone route... oh, and it's whiskey. As in Scotch.
Keep the posts coming, this is getting interesting.
Cheers,
M |
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2004 : 11:01:52 PM
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My left shoulder never froze, but it does get sore.
Add leaning on your elbow to the list of things not to do. It's a tough habit to break, too. The skin on my right elbow is smooth. I have a bit of a calus, at least the skin is rough, on my left elbow, but it's smoother than it was. |
Pauline |
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duke
Lokahi
USA
163 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 12:58:53 AM
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I turned 50 last June and just like strange magic, that same shoulder pain hit me. Mine was in the right shoulder. Then the left. I tried a good Glucosamine/Chondriton/MSM blend and initially it seemed to help. A few months ago I noticed the pain was back and stayed with me for quite a while. Same thing--could barely lift my left arm. One day about a month ago, I go into "Alive and Well" Health Emporium in Kahului asking for advice on a chronic stiff neck problem. They suggested Calcium/Magnesium/Citrate and KavaKava pills. I started taking them and also revived some morning TaiChi-like exercises that I hadn't done in awhile. About two weeks later, I realized, almost as if hit by a falling brick, that I no longer had the pain in my shoulders. I had gotten so used to living with the pain that I learned to tune it out. I'm still pain free and I don't know if it's the calcium or what, but hey. I cut back on the amount I was taking and still no pain. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
Duke |
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Julie H
Ha`aha`a
USA
1206 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 01:04:45 AM
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Aloha Mark,
from one single-malt-Scotch drinker to another: I knew there was something special about you! 
Seriously, since I've been fooling around with those little ukuleles, I've also had this soreness in my right shoulder. I attributed to an autoimmune disorder I have. Then I thought maybe it came from working on computers day after day. But in retrospect, it seems that this nagging soreness increased when I started playing a lot more. It makes it even more difficult to hold a guitar, as my arm has to really stretch to get around that big body. Dancing hula is tougher nowadays...
I'm not sure what to do about it, except that NOT playing is not an attractive option. And yes, I'm way past 50, but have no plans on slowing down. I take a lot of Aleve. Frankly, I don't think the medical profession has put enough research and energy into pain management, and that's why people like me drink good Scotch! Aha!
Wishing you the best with your shoulder. When you find a solution, let us know. Aloha nui,
Julie
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 01:59:03 AM
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Julie,
That body worker I wrote about is in San Mateo -
he's really good at dealing with the kind of stuff you're writing about
Raymond
San Jose |
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launie
Aloha
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 09:43:14 AM
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Hey, it's nice to know I'm not alone! I got the frozen shoulder thing a few years back. It was so bad, I had to let my fiddle partner set up the pa every gig. My arms couldn't do much other than dangle. Physical therapy was a bit physical (I've spent a lifetime avoiding things like developing muscles) and I also underwent a bit of acupuncture - it was remarkably effective ... for 24 hours after each session. Eventually, these two treatments, combined with how I held the instrument, seemed to bring back the mobility. Sadly, I now have to join in on setting up at gigs, again.
Changing stance and how I held my guitar was recommended by fellow musicians. Instead of slouching over the instrument, it was suggested I shifted it to my left knee (I play right handed) and that I raised my left foot somewhat, just like a classical guitarist. This worried me because I didn't want people suspecting I could actually play guitar properly. But as I said, I think it helped the mobility come back.
Last thing? As someone who tends to play Irish music, I must admit Mark, I had to smile when you mentioned how you first noticed the complaint. It's the least a bodhranista deserves! All the suffering us others have to go through! (Jus' kiddin').
Jamie |
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wdf
Ha`aha`a
USA
1153 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 10:02:45 AM
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| Not sure about scotch, but I know that a nice Ravenswood zinfandel seems to help. |
Dusty |
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Puna
Lokahi
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 12:53:11 PM
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Julie
Be cautious on things like Aleve. It is easy to set up a feedback loop where the NSAIDs (Aleve, ibuprofin, aspirin, etc) actually add to the inflammation (rebound effect), so you have to keep ramping up the dose to get the same relief. An excellent natural anti-inflammatory (that doesn't seem to rebound) is ginger. A good source is candied ginger...plus it gives you an excuse to eat candy!
Some people respond to foods from the nightshade family (tomato, eggplant, etc) with extra joint pain/arthritic symptoms. You might also try diet modification.
For all of you...age should NOT be a factor, except that your body is less forgiving of insults like poor posture. Biomechanics, stretching, nutrition are vital. Many of you have mentioned "alternative" therapies...Duke's CalMag and TaiChi, RJS's body work, admirable and wdfs rotation warm up/stretching, and hell, even the rum/scotch route (which works best if you STOP playing periodically to get up and get your drink which you leave on the other side of the room). Accupuncture is great...you should all be getting massages, too. If you don't want to pay for full body, find a class where you and your partner can learn some techniques. Guitarists should be getting upper body and forearms/hand massages as often as possible.
Admirable...the cortisone shots...yes it works, but hooyah, that's a potent chemical being injected into your body! I'd say that's a way to deal with the crisis which caused the pain, but then go onto other therapies.
So, sit up straight, eat right, and be nice to yourself.
Sincerely,
Your mother! |
Puna |
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