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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
 Posted - 11/12/2004 : 9:42:59 PM
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Ok, still overdoing the Hapa things at times...
When I hard pan the Hapa songs Right and Left, it really helps hear what the guitars are doing (usually!).
Barry often has a predominately rhythm guitar track towards one side, and then a more melodic or lead like guitar to the opposite side.
There are times they'll cross-trade riffs, but this pattern happens alot in my initial "research".
Barry DOESN'T seem to often use the 'slack key soloist' style of constant alternating bass under a set of melodic ideas and variations.
It's more like 1) a good basic rhythm track,
and 2) some Hawaiianesque melodic lines and flourishes on the opposite track--when there's only 2 tracks!
Has anybody else had similar (or contrasting) observations?
Does he usuallly maintain these patterns in live performances? (I've seen him once, but actually didn't evaluate the joy out of it!)
He's a very physical player in concert...did his guitar have a hole in the top on Maui!?
The studio is a great place for layering--and sometimes more subtle playing...
Who knows a few of Barry's playing secrets.
Finally, for now...what is his usual approach to right hand articulation? Thumb pick? PIMA etc.
I'll be checking out for a few days, but would love any insights out there.
Still searchin' for the out of print Hapa songbook...has anyone used it and found it effective?
G
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2004 : 10:16:28 PM
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I can't answer any of those questions, but if you go to the HAPA website, you can contact them directly and they will most likely answer with great care and perhaps supply you with out-of-print songbook.
auntie n |
nancy cook |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2004 : 05:32:06 AM
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Ah, the direct approach!
Worth a try...
But also--and I know we have few Barry fans (not Manilow!).
Even very basic (Flannagan 101) insights might be useful.
Sometimes I miss the obvious.
G |
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2004 : 08:28:22 AM
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I was in shock when I got a personal phone call from one of the guys when they had booked into Redondo Beach according to their schedule, but it wasn't listed at that venue. So be sure to include your phone number He told me all the upcoming places in California and was happy that we were fans!That was last winter.
A n |
nancy cook |
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2004 : 3:20:00 PM
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barry is indeed great! one time i had called what i thought was ray kane's number; it was barry flanagan's instead. i left a message. a week or so later, i was coming out of class with a bunch of students in tow talking about the homework when my phone rang. on the other end was the gruff voice of barry flanagan. i almost fell over when he told me who he was (my students were pretty amused).
hawaiian musicians are the best folks, aren't they? what aloha spirit!
keith |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2004 : 3:34:10 PM
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Gordon,
I talked to Barry for about 5 minutes backstage at the Great American
Music Hall in S.F. around 10-12 years ago. I was trying to get some
hints about playing "Justin's Lullaby". I had figured out how to
play parts of the melody in standard tuning but was interested in
what tuning he used (it was G) for that piece and a few other
details. He indicated to me strongly at that time that he did NOT
play "slack key", and also that a lot of what was on their first CD
was done by multi-tracking/overdubbing (the appearance of Steven
Stills for instance) and multilayered Guitar parts. He also indicated
that he thought Justin's Lullaby was a "throw-away" tune (his words)
and he was very surprised that the major light-jazz station (KKSF)
was so enamored with this tune and playing it all the time (and not
playing any other cuts off the CD). I think he thought that I had
picked up HAPA / Justin's Lullaby from KKSF but it was not the case.
Of course, it turns out that "Justin's Lullaby" is mostly a greatly
slowed down version of "Kaopuiki Aloha" (see other threads on this
site), but I did not realize it at the time.
So yes, what you hear on the first HAPA release, like most modern
pop, is substantially "layered", and Barry is mostly a flat-picker
(with Rock & Roll roots in New York). When I have observed him, he
generally holds the pick between thumb and forefinger and then also
strikes other strings with two of the remaining three fingers, so you
get this half-way flat half-way fingerstyle kind of playing. So his
playing style fits the name of the Group too.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 11/13/2004 3:41:33 PM |
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Darin
Lokahi
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2004 : 06:48:10 AM
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Gordon,
Barry was my first teacher and he's a pretty good friend. What questions do you have? I can probably be of some help.
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Darin
http://www.hawaiiguitar.com/ |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 01:12:23 AM
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Wow, I'll have to think about what specific questions to ask...
If I were sitting listening to a recording, I'd be like a 5 year old--"How's he do that?"
ibid.
ibid.
ibidibidibidibidi...
I guess I'm generally interested in his approach to tunings...
But really even that boils down to VOICINGS.
Especially his higher (capoed) voicings.
A couple of my current favs are the high runs with a falling line, against a "pedal point" high note (usually on a root or 5th).
These often occur as he departs from the heart of the melody later in his instrumental breaks for:
"Ku'u Home O Kahalu'u"
and also on IZ's "Hi'ilawe"(previously discussed).
and others.
Chicken skin.
But I'm not sure those are easy questions to tackle in a word format!
He plays one of the "Hi'ilawe" multi-tracks, at 5th fret in standard.
He pointed out this puts the high guitar into a uke-like voicing (G,C,E,A).
But can I play it yet?
Nicht!
I'm also tryin' to immulate this technique on the violin...
it's effective when I get it right--and when I don't...it's 'Chicken Chalk-Board Skin' baby!
Aw geez, a mind is a terrible thing...
But do appreciate the background.
G |
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Darin
Lokahi
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 12:24:03 PM
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Hi Gordon,
No tricks to tuning. Either standard, drop D or taro patch.
Most of the time with a flatpick (Dunlop purple, extra heavy). Sometimes hide the flatpick between the fingers allowing for fingerpicking with the thumb, pointer and middle finger.
As for voicings, if I understand the terminology correctly, an important and often used shape is based around the D chord. For example, the arpeggio would be 1st string-5th fret, 1st string-2nd fret, second string-3rd fret, third string-second fret, fourth string-4th fret, fifth string-5th fret, sixth string-2nd fret. Barry plays around with that shape all over the place. For example, in the key of E, everything I said above would be transposed up two frets. Let me know if this makes sense.
As for the "pedal point" licks, I think you are referring to a tremolo type line, where one note stays while another descends. Try this. Start with the pinky on the second string-16th fret (E note) and the pointer on the first string-12th fret (also E note). It's a big stretch. With a pick, downstroke on the second string, downstroke on the first string, upstroke on the first string. That should sound three E's. Then drop the pinky to second string, 15th fret. Downstroke on the second string, downstroke on the first string, upstroke on the first string. Keep dropping the second string note. The effect is a moving line on the second string and a constant note on the first string. The analagous example is a tremolo, classical style. The thumb plays the moving line, and the I, M, A fingers play the same note in succession, creating the effect of a constant note.
Let me know if any of this makes sense. |
Darin
http://www.hawaiiguitar.com/ |
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Darin
Lokahi
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 12:32:57 PM
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"It's more like 1) a good basic rhythm track,
and 2) some Hawaiianesque melodic lines and flourishes on the opposite track--when there's only 2 tracks!
Has anybody else had similar (or contrasting) observations?
Does he usuallly maintain these patterns in live performances? (I've seen him once, but actually didn't evaluate the joy out of it!)
He's a very physical player in concert...did his guitar have a hole in the top on Maui!?
The studio is a great place for layering--and sometimes more subtle playing...
Who knows a few of Barry's playing secrets.
Finally, for now...what is his usual approach to right hand articulation? Thumb pick? PIMA etc."
Sorry, just looked back at the original post.
Yes, the recordings are often hard panned. As for rhythm guitar, Barry often plays the bass note, then strums (kinda bluegrass). The hard panned guitar on the opposite side is usually melody. Live, same techniques. When playing rhythm, bass notes and strumming. When playing lead, flourishes, etc.
Also yes, Barry is a very physical player. Lots of bending vibrato (as opposed to side to side classical vibrato). Lots of hard attacks (with the extra hard purple pick) near the bridge. The guitar of choice is an old Washburn with the original Barcus Baggs pickup. I don't remember exactly where the hole in the top came from, I think someone dropped a drill on it. He also uses an old delay pedal.
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Darin
http://www.hawaiiguitar.com/ |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2004 : 10:16:47 PM
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Yes, this is the type of things I seek. Thanks Darin. I'll try the descending thingy in the morning.
Gonna take some time though!
His common Tunings you mention are also about what I expected...He also mentioned using a track of C,G, D, G, B, E...(Keola's C) on "Hi'ilawe", the post-humous tracks he added to IZ's version. And he said that was punched in at the modulation. He had a 3rd guitar doing Bach-like lines, but that is either invisible to us mortals--or left in the editing room tape vault.
So for that tune there is standard, Drop D, and the C.
So with a little capo action, it opens up lots of possibilities.
Thanks for the extra insights.
G |
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Darin
Lokahi
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2004 : 09:20:55 AM
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Hi Gordon,
I was curious so I went back and listened to the Hi`ilawe version again. I don't hear the "Bach-like" lines. I do hear lots of parallel 6ths, fingerpicking through most of the song (just flesh on the right hand, not nail), flat pick towards the end. Lots of chords with the 5th of the chord on the 1st string.
On the solo, I hear fingerpicked parallel sixths first, then flatpicked single note lines. Then a technique I didn't mention in the last e-mail: three-note hammer/pulloff/slides. This can have variations (example in the key of A: Use the 1st string, pull-off from fret seven to five, slide fret five to four, hammer back to fret five. This is all one motion, very agressive with the left hand, to get all four notes to sound). The next section starts with a muted noted followed by a pulloff with some agressive vibrato. Then the "tremolo" technique with the moving string moving up, then down. Then a repeat idea: muted note followed by a slide on the next string. Then a parallel 6th with one of the notes hammered. Some artificial harmonics at the end of the solo.
The second Ha`ina switches to flatpick. Then rolls with the flatpick. The ending is pulloffs, three notes on each string with some variation at the end.
Probably not completely accurate, definitely incomplete, but it might give you some ideas. |
Darin
http://www.hawaiiguitar.com/ |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2004 : 10:23:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dl584
I don't hear the "Bach-like" lines.
That info came from me. Some of it may have gotten lost in the translation, but Barry was telling me about Bach-like runs that he played on that track. I sort of recall him saying that it is not loud enough to be heard in the mix or maybe it was not included at all? Anyway, go by dl584's observations since I think he knows Barry's playing better than anyone (well, besides Barry himself). |
Andy |
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