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Gary A
Lokahi
USA
169 Posts |
 Posted - 04/03/2005 : 09:13:49 AM
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Jesse, this thread has reignited my interest in C6 tuning. I tried C6 in the past but didn't make much progress. However, this time around I feel like things have clicked. Stacy Phillips' idea of relating C6 to the open G tuning is very powerful.
Be sure to try the "Little Heaven...#2", "Alekoki" and "Kaua I Ka..." tabs in Stacy's book. They're nice sounding arrangements. One odd thing about the "Little Heaven" tab is that Stacy shows lots two-fret forward slants on the 1st and 3rd strings. These are more easily played as a straight bar on the 1st and 4th string (for example, the ending can be played on strings 1 and 4). In fact almost everything shown on the 1st-3rd string pairs can be played on the 1st-4th strings.
Also, to follow up on thumbstruck's post, in looking at some other lap steel books I noticed that Barney Isaacs often used the C13 tuning. It's an 8 string tuning in which the six highest strings are CEGACE (just like C6), the 7th string is a Bb (the flatted 7th of the C scale) and the 8th is either a C or G. |
Gary |
Edited by - Gary A on 04/03/2005 09:15:27 AM |
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Gary A
Lokahi
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 07:51:25 AM
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I ran across this very useful collection of Hawaiian Turnarounds in C6 on the Steel Guitar Forum (I hope it's not bad form to post a link to another forum).
There are a lot of good ideas there for turnarounds that take advantage of the C6 tuning. Compared to a high or low G tuning, the biggest difference is that the C6 tuning offers more chordal possibilities.
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Gary |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 08:47:45 AM
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I'm really enjoying C6 a lot and I was wondering if anyone knows of any double-neck six-string lap steels in production (as opposed to one-off customs. If not, where would a guy start looking for a used one?
Jesse Tinsley |
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Gary A
Lokahi
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 09:22:56 AM
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Jesse, I assume you're asking about electric lap steels.
Here's a production 8 string double neck guitar:
http://www.remingtonsteelguitars.com/guitars.html
The only other company I know of that makes a double neck non-pedal steel is Tradewinds in California. They don't have a website. I can find the contact information if you're interested. I think they only make double 8 strings.
EBay often has used double neck lap steels. Just Search for "lap steel" or "lapsteel". Fender double necks come in 6 and 8 string models. They are probably the most desirable. They go for $1000 or more. Gibson also made double necks. You can find cheaper ones by Supro, National and Magnatone. Shipping could be expensive.
Here's a Gibson D-8 console:
http://www.markvanallen.com/store_non_pedal.html
and a Rickenbacher D-6 neck:
http://www.gruhn.com/catalog/eu.htm
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Gary |
Edited by - Gary A on 04/07/2005 09:37:41 AM |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 09:47:32 AM
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Thanks, Gary.
This might be off-topic, but here goes...
I noticed that most pedal steelers have a color code system on the neck which indicates, I think, straight bar chords and corresponding chords in those keys.
Has anyone here done that on their lap steels and could someone explain its usefulness or lack thereof? Mahalo!
Jesse Tisnley |
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Gary A
Lokahi
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 09:56:59 AM
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I found this Aloha Oe tab for C6 lap steel. It's a pretty basic arrangement. The tab is for the 8 string C6 tuning (GCEGACEG, low to high). However, the 1st and 8th strings are never used so it can be played with the 6 string C6 tuning - just play the stuff on strings 2 through 7 in the tab on strings 1 through 6 on the lap steel.
Here's another Aloha Oe tab for 6 string C6 tuning. It's a little fancier and has more slants in it.
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Gary |
Edited by - Gary A on 04/07/2005 10:28:44 AM |
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Gary A
Lokahi
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2005 : 08:03:12 AM
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I've been spedning a lot of time with the C6 tuning lately. I think to master a tuning you really have to understand the layout of the fretboard. Below is a document I wrote mapping out harmonized sixths in the C6 tuning.
Harmonized Sixths in the C6 Tuning
Whenever you're playing a melody you can almost always safely add some harmonic complexity by including the note that's a sixth below it in the scale.
Below are four basic ways to harmonize a G scale in sixths in the C6 tuning. The higher note is a scale note and the lower note is a note from the scale that is an interval of a major or minor sixth away. Below the tab I've indicated the pattern of slants. It's either straight (S), forward slant (F), backwards slant (B), or forward two fret slant (F2).
If you're familiar with High-G tuning (GBDGBD), then the first pattern is the same as the one played on the 2nd and 4th strings in High-G, the second pattern is the same as the 3rd and 5th string pattern in High-G and the third pattern is the same as the 1st and 3rd string pattern in High-G. The fourth pattern is unique to the C6 tuning.
E |---3----5----7----8---10---12---14---15--
C |-----------------------------------------
A |-----------------------------------------
G |---4----5----7----9---11---12---14---16--
E |-----------------------------------------
C |-----------------------------------------
......R....S....S....R....R....S....S....R
E |-----------------------------------------
C |---7----9---11---12---14---16---18---19--
A |-----------------------------------------
G |-----------------------------------------
E |---7----8---10---12---14---15---17---19--
C |-----------------------------------------
......S....F....F....S....S....F....F....S
E |---3----5----7----8---10---12---14---15--
C |-----------------------------------------
A |---2----3----5----7----9---10---12---14--
G |-----------------------------------------
E |-----------------------------------------
C |-----------------------------------------
......F...F2...F2....F....F...F2...F2....F
E |-----------------------------------------
C |-----------------------------------------
A |--10---12---14---15---17---19---21---22--
G |-----------------------------------------
E |-----------------------------------------
C |--11---12---14---16---18---19---21---23--
......R....S....S....R....R....S....S....R
Often you stay on the same strings when playing harmonized notes. This gives you a smooth transition between notes. However you can combine these patterns to minimize the number of slants needed.
E |--------5----7-------------12---14-------
C |---7-------------12---14-------------19--
A |-----------------------------------------
G |--------5----7-------------12---14-------
E |---7-------------12---14-------------19--
C |-----------------------------------------
E |---------------------------12---14---15--
C |-----------------12---14-----------------
A |--10---12---14---------------------------
G |---------------------------12---14---16--
E |-----------------12---14-----------------
C |--11---12---14---------------------------
Below is an example of how you might use a harmonized scale when doing a transition from the V chord to the I chord:
E |-------------- |------------
C |--6--7-------- |---9--7-----
A |-------------- |------------
G |-------------- |------------
E |--5--7-------- |---8--7-----
C |-------------- |------------
Sometimes you might use notes that aren't in the scale. Here's an example of a chromatic walk-up:
E |-----5--6--7-- |------------
C |--7----------- |--12-13-14--
A |-------------- |------------
G |-----5--6--7-- |------------
E |--7----------- |--12-13-14--
C |-------------- |------------
Here's an example of how you might go outside the scale when doing a transition from a I chord to a IV chord by going through the sequence I->I7->bVII->IV. The notes marked with a "*" are outside the harmonized scale:
E |--7---|10---13|-12
C |------|-------|---
A |------|-------|---
G |--7---|10---14|-12
E |------|-------|---
C |------|-------|---
...........*....*....
Below is a table that summarizes how these intervals relate to the chords. The first column is the interval - major or minor sixth. The second column is the scale degrees of the low and high notes. The third column relates the two notes to a major chord and lists the how those two notes function in the chord. The fourth and fifth columns relate these notes to other chords.
For example, the first pair in the scale is a minor 6th interval, the low note is the 3rd of the scale, the high note is the root of the scale, these can be considered to be the 3rd and root of the I chord or the 5th and flatted 3rd of the VIm (so you might use these notes with a I chord or VIm chord). The second pair in the scale can be used with a V7 or IIm. If you're playing music that mostly has I, IV and V chords then you only need to pay attention to the Maj-Chord column.
Interval Degree Maj-Chord Min-Chord Other-Chord
m6 3-1 I (3,1) VIm (5,b3)
M6 4-2 V7 (b7,5) IIm (b3,1)
M6 5-3 I (5,3) IIIm (b3,1) VIm7 (b7,b3)
m6 6-4 IV (3,1) IIm (5,b3)
m6 7-5 V (3,1) IIIm (5,b3)
M6 1-6 IV (5,3) VIm (b3,1) IIm7 (b7,b3)
M6 2-7 V (5,3) IIIm7 (b7,b3)
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Gary |
Edited by - Gary A on 04/11/2005 11:08:15 AM |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2005 : 09:36:42 AM
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Slow down with the study materials, Gary! I'm still trying to catch up! (Just kidding, keep it coming)
I've been listening to 49th State recordings (right after WWII) which have lots of lap steel in them and found that style to be different from the jumpy 1920s/1930s Sol Ho'opi'i style and not fully into the slower, longer sustain style associated with the 1950s. Very clean and lots of 6th harmonies, but never more than two strings. Lots of sliding up and down, though. It might be my favorite era of Hawaiian guitar.
I was able to pick up a thrift store turntable ($10) that will play my old 78s, so I'm them all to digital! It's fun to hear Johnny Almeida sing "Kanaka Waiwai" in the Al Jolson style and to hear Hilo Hattie sing "Manuela Boy" with sanitized lyrics.
Jesse Tinsley
Jesse Tinsley |
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Gary A
Lokahi
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2005 : 10:37:21 AM
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Here's the same analysis for harmonized thirds in C6 tuning. You don't need to study this in detail - you can work out the patterns for yourself. The main point I'm making is that the patterns are there. You just need to learn where they are, how they connect and how they relate to chords.
Harmonized Thirds in the C6 Tuning
Below are four basic ways to harmonize a G scale in thirds in the C6 tuning. The pair of notes are notes from the G scale separated by an interval of a major or minor third. Below each tab I've indicated the pattern of slants. It's either straight (S), a forward slant (F) or a backward slant (B).
If you're familiar with High-G tuning (GBDGBD), then the first pattern is the same as the one played on the 2nd and 3rd strings in High-G, the second pattern is the same as the 1st and 2nd string pattern in High-G.
In the C6 tuning the 1st and 2nd strings are the same as the 5th and 6th strings except they are an octave higher. Thus the pattern for the 1st and 2nd strings is the same as the pattern for the 5th and 6th strings. The 2nd and 3rd strings have the same relationship as the 4th and 5th strings so the pattern is the same on those string pairs.
E |---3----5----7----8---10---12---14---15--
C |---4----6----7----9---11---12---14---16--
A |-----------------------------------------
G |-----------------------------------------
E |-----------------------------------------
C |-----------------------------------------
______R____R____S____R____R____S____S____R
E |-----------------------------------------
C |---7----9---11---12---14---16---18---19--
A |---7----9---10---12---14---15---17---19--
G |-----------------------------------------
E |-----------------------------------------
C |-----------------------------------------
______S____S____F____S____S____F____F____S
E |-----------------------------------------
C |-----------------------------------------
A |-----------------------------------------
G |--12---14---16---17---19---21---23---24--
E |--12---14---15---17---19---20---22---24--
C |-----------------------------------------
______S____S____F____S____S____F____F____S
E |-----------------------------------------
C |-----------------------------------------
A |-----------------------------------------
G |-----------------------------------------
E |---3----5----7----8---10---12---14---15--
C |---4----6----7----9---11---12---14---16--
______R____R____S____R____R____S____S____R
You can combine these patterns to minimize the number of slants needed.
E |-------------7-------------12---14-------
C |---7----9----7---12---14---12---14---19--
A |---7----9--------12---14-------------19--
G |-----------------------------------------
E |-----------------------------------------
C |-----------------------------------------
Below is a table that summarizes how these intervals relate to the chords. The first column is the interval - major or minor third. The second column is the scale degrees of the low and high notes. The third column relates the two notes to a major chord and lists the how those two notes function in the chord. The fourth and fifth columns relate these notes to other chords.
For example, the second pair in the scale is a minor third interval, the low note is the 7th of the scale, the high note is the 2nd of the scale, these can be considered to be the 3rd and 5th of the V chord.
Interval Degree Maj-Chord Min-Chord Other-Chord
m3 6-1 IV (3,5) VIm.(1,b3) I6.(6,1),IIm7(5,b7)
m3 7-2 V (3,5) IIIm7.(5,b7)
M3 1-3 I (1,3) VIm.(b3,5)
m3 2-4 V7 (5,b7) IIm.(1,b3) IV6.(6,1)
m3 3-5 I (3,5) IIIm.(1,b3) IVm7.(5,b7)
M3 4-6 IV (1,3) IIm.(b3,5)
M3 5-7 V (1,3) IIIm.(b3,5)
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Gary |
Edited by - Gary A on 04/11/2005 11:04:05 AM |
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Gary A
Lokahi
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2005 : 10:55:53 AM
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One more thing  .
I first tried to learn the C6 tuning about three years ago and I didn't feel I got very far. This time I am really amazed at how much progress I've made. I think it's because I now know the right way to approach to learning the fretboard layout.
I created a webpage that describes my approach to learning the C6 tuning. It's here: Learning C6 Tuning
I'm really not fishing for compliments or get off on hearing myself lecture on how to learn lap steel. I just think this is a very organized way to learn the fretboard, based on my experience. I'm sure a lot of people already approach it this way. However, I sure didn't do it this way when I was learning a few years ago. Comments or criticisms are welcome.
I've actually got one more document I want to write on dom7 chords and C6, but after that I promise I'll stop with the C6 pontificating.
EDIT: Fixed bad link.
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Gary |
Edited by - Gary A on 04/12/2006 4:52:51 PM |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2005 : 1:04:46 PM
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quote:
I've actually got one more document I want to write on dom7 chords and C6, but after that I promise I'll stop with the C6 pontificating.
Pontificate away, meastro. You're approach is very straight ahead, and much appreciated. While nothing can subsitute for the insight gained by working it out for your self, having your "cheat sheets" is going to help me a lot. Mahalo nui bigtime.
So, know where I can find TAB for Sands?
cheers,
M |
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Konabob
`Olu`olu
USA
928 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2005 : 07:35:29 AM
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Hi Gary,
Thanks for all the interesting tabs... I am starting to learn how to read them with the help of Chris Yeaton.
I also found an interesting piece of Freeware that works on Windows and Mac computers, and lets you
quickly write your own tabs. As with most Freeware, there is a learning curve, but it's not too bad.
http://etktab.sourceforge.net is the web site.
My first project is to do a Taro Patch steel tab for "Aloha 'Oe" which I can use in beginning steel guitar lessons.
Once I have it done, I need to have a couple of you check my work. I have played by ear for a long time and
never used tab, so I am in unknown waters at this point.
One other bit of news - I had a cheapo Johnson single cone resonator (roundneck, metal body) that I really
didn't like. The round neck tended to flex too much when played on my lap, and the string spacing was a lot
narrower than that of my Superior. I handed it over to Dennis Lake, and he is putting on a koa square neck
with the same spacing as my Superior. He is also putting in a new Quarterman cone. It is taking a bit of time
to finish the project, but I am starting to get all chicken skin every time he calls. I can't wait!
-Konabob |
Konabob's Walkingbass - http://www.konawalkingbass.com
Taropatch Steel - http://www.konaweb.com/konabob/
YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Konabob2+Walkingbass |
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seldomfed
Aloha
USA
33 Posts |
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Gary A
Lokahi
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2005 : 08:12:53 AM
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Konabob,
I'd be happy to proofread your Aloha Oe tab or any other instructional material that you develop. I also have a couple of exercises for polishing one's steel guitar technique. They're easy but I found they made a big improvement in my playing. I think they'd be good for beginners - getting a clean sound is the one of the hardest things about steel guitar when you're starting out. I post that in a separate topic when I get around to writing it up. |
Gary |
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Gary A
Lokahi
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 10:12:38 AM
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I ran across an interesting C6 chord study on the www.hawaiiansteel.com website. It shows some nice harmonizations of a V7->I transition that make good use of the C6 tuning. As written they are more suitable for Western Swing rather than Hawaiian music, but they can easily be adapted.
Here's the first half:
http://www.hawaiiansteel.com/tab/chordstudy1.html
Here's the second half. This has a couple of tricky, multi-string slants in it.
http://www.hawaiiansteel.com/tab/chordstudy2.html
My browser had a problem formatting the page so you may need to copy the text and paste it into a document with a fixed-width font.
The website has some pretty good material. I wish there was more of it. The "Learning" section of the website has two articles that are pretty good. One article is a handy string gauge chart for lap steel tunings. The other is a very insightful article discussing lap steel tuning - what distinguishes one tuning from another and why you'd want to choose one over another. As I've gotten into C6 tuning I've realized that at least 80% of what you do in C6 can also be done in an open G tuning (or at least approximated in an open G tuning). Part of the fun of learning C6 is figuring out the unique things you can do with it.
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Gary |
Edited by - Gary A on 04/22/2005 10:15:31 AM |
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