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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
 Posted - 05/11/2005 : 4:40:13 PM
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So we all have different learning styles and curves...
But I keep hoping that I'll hit an "AHA" type of experience...a crystallization of my skill at some point--when I'm just doin' my art.
But right now it's just LSP...long, slow, practice.
And sometimes I wonder...am I nuts or a slow learner...
Of course, Louise Hay would not approve...
what we tell ourselves has power...
What can I tell myself without lying?
I know I've made progress...but sometimes I want more...
any Warriors with advice out there?
Forever ain't what it used to be.
Frustrated in Denver.
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 7:16:22 PM
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For me, all my guitar learning was long, slow practice. Took a good 1.5 - 2 years to get where I played what sounded like decent music -- and I practiced 2 -3 hours almost every day.
I realized that I had learned something when I got snookered into giving a workshop for our local Guitar Society, and it ended up going well. As far as my experience, and all the people with whom I've spoken to abou this, the "AHA" experience is a fairy tale. Look for periods of enjoying what you're doing along the way. At times I just plucked one note repeatedly cause I loved the hear the sound and feel the vibration. Playing the 4th song in Ozzie's book was a joy, if not a "high"
- Even now, things periodically "fall apart" for me - I get very disatisfied and down with my playing - except I'm getting better at realizing that this is a part of my process, and what usually comes from a time like that, (during which I often go back to 2 - 3 hours a day) is some kind of new integration.
That said - I think it is really valuable to have a teacher to check in with. Mine is too busy to give me much time, but I'm able to get a few hours every 3rd or 4th month -- just enough to check in and figure out what to work on next. That kind of thing can be set up on a weekend, even if it takes a commute -plane fares can be cheap - but finding someone with whom you work well is like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow - something you dream about and "sell everything you've got(figuratively speaking)" if there's a chance for it to happen -- It was really important for me in my second year to have a regular teacher -- |
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2005 : 07:42:09 AM
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gordon,
i really understand your question. we've all experienced what you're feeling. but,
1) the speed that you learn is a constraint rather than a problem. at least, as long as medicine fails to find a viagra equivalent to return your brain to a juvenile level of activity. (now, there's a scary thought!)
2) the better you get, the more you realize the less you know. each plateau is as frustrating as the previous one.
the only answer i know is to practice. a lot. which means you have to really love it. there's a reason that the word "amateur" is derived from the word "to love".
aloha,
keith
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Edited by - marzullo on 05/12/2005 07:44:44 AM |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2005 : 08:05:19 AM
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I believe hours with a guitar in your hands, playing whatever makes you happy, will translate to musical fluency.
Too many musicians tell themselves "I must play (song) just like (guitar master) or I won't be satisfied". That just leads to frustration and discontentment.
If you take away those forced objectives and just play from the heart--simply and slowly--then eventually your fingers will figure out how to play the songs you used to think were over your head.
Jesse |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2005 : 08:34:59 AM
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Dear Frustrated,
Are you putting in the time and not getting the results you want? So, you're playing on the edge of the bed and your cat won;t stay in the same room? You say you have to wear earplugs just to practice, otherwise YOU can't even stay in the same room?? Is that what's troubling you, Bunky??????
Well, what makes you think you are so special?!?!?!?!?
I guess it would be more fun, maybe, if it were not such a struggle, but when you do start to get it, it is really great. Keep at it, practice, practice, practice. I recently mentioned in another post about a book that helped me greatly. It is called Zen Guitar, given to me by my son for CHristmas. He needs to read it, I need to read it again, you need to read it, we could all benefit from it. One thing mentioned in there is a variation of the old saw, 'practice makes perfect'. They quote a famous musician who says that in reality "perfect practice makes perfect". Meaning, take your practice seriously. Have a plan. Have the time set aside, inviolate. Quiet. Know what you will practice, tune the guitar and go.
As for AHA experiences, I beg to differ with RJS, because i just this weekend had one. At a workshop with George Kahumoku in San Diego, someone asked him a question about playing along with somebody. He had one of the students (our own Dusty, aka wdf) play a tune, and George showed us how he would accompany the sololist. The rest of that workshop and for most of the next one the following day, I found myself playing counterpoint to Uncle George, almost effortlessly. That was a Holy Smoke! deal for me. Now, if i could just find someone up here in Alaska to play along with..... Guess I'll just have to go back to practicing that type of playing along with recordings. On the way home in the airport, if found myself writing 3 new variations for a song i learned last year; just fills to be used in place of the melody or to accompany someone playing the melody. I don;'t think i could have done that two days before. So, yes, I do believe there are plateaus you reach. Some just are longer than others, some have canyons in them you must cross, sand traps you fall into, water hazards, poisonsous snakes, werewolves..........werewolves???? And then i woke up! |
Karl
Frozen North |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2005 : 08:54:20 AM
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Well, while I was writing my reply between clients, both Keith and Jesse replied to yor querry. As you can see, they are probably nicer guys than i am. At least gentler in their approach.
One thing i had meant to address was the part about perfection. Who needs it? (who can do it?) I would love to play perfectly, but I do not. It is almost embarrassing to admit i have played for 48 years (off and on, mostly on) and I don;t think i have ever played a song perfectly. But, i still enjoy what i do and the sounds that come out of the guitar are usually pleasing enough to be rewarding. If you are truly talking about becoing a perfect guitar player, that is a story about which i know nothing.
I really think Zen Guitar would be a good book for you. It's sections about practice, perfection, the reasons you play, the meaning of what you are doing, are very enlightening. That book, in itself, might be the AHA! experience you are looking for.
Discovering slack key was an AHA, for me, as was slide guitar prior to that, and fingerpicking before that. Eqach one has brought with it a new understanding of the art of playing, a new set of goals to shoot for, a new set of friends to share the usic with. And in each, there were long droughts punctuated by moents of brilliance, soe of which sunk in, others that bounced off and i have searched for ever since (good reason to have a tape player going while practicing:)). Finding this website was a big AHA for me, because without it i would never have evenknow about lots of the music i now play, the workshops available and the incredible resource of caring, sharing, knowledgable folks willing to help in all areas.
If you like what you are playing, play it like you mean it, and it will come. At the heart of Zen Guitar is not perfection, speed or licks, but playing from the heart...Jesse was right on.
Good pickin' |
Karl
Frozen North |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2005 : 11:03:03 AM
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| A fellow who occasionally takes a lesson or two from me asked me how much practice I do a day. I responded, noy nearly what I would like to ... nowadays 1 - 2 hours, about a half hour of which is just playing repetoire, the other time working on stuff. He asked how I could force myself to do that. You gotta be nice to people, but boy is that the wrong question. Do you have to force yourself to hang out with someone who think is gorgeous and with whom you're in love? Bottom line is I just love this stuff, no matter how much I don't meet my perfectionistic expectations, and I start feeling off wen I don't practice |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2005 : 7:57:40 PM
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OK, let's see...
Beginner's Mind, well I've got that mastered!
Now to find intermediate-advanced mind.
When I was 9, I started violin lessons...and a lesson a week and maybe half an hour to an hour of practice 3-6 times a week, plus a daily orchestra...slow, almost imperceptable baby steps...
Then, out on the road at 23 and played in various state of focus for about 8 years.
Chippin' away...little by little...day by day.
Sometimes I was just in a self induced "bunnyland",
--But other practice and goals were concious and deliberate...and always lots of immersion in muscical situations.
But that was NOT the guitar or uke, and while I have loads of musical experience, it doesn't automatically transfer to finger memory for a different instrument.
That for rare, and probably younger musicians!
The sponge still absorbs...but with a little less rapid, automatic response.
But when I cut the clutter,
sometimes I see and hear amazingly simple-- yet profound insights that arise from stretching and relaxing our sticky webs of thought.
Moments like...
Noticing the microscopic dew on blades of grass, and the transient light.
Maybe we're just inside the clock, and can't read the time thingy...so we don't know that we are IN the time thingy.
Magic is focusing AND relaxing.
But it's the the time studying "2 + 2" that can be tedious...especially as an adult.
If we are flowers waiting to bud, but I must be an IMPATIENT.
But those lucid moments... when a simple chime or pattern rings and lingers in the air, our ears and our minds. The little aha's...are worth the 2+2 times.
Practice is climbing inside the clock, and forgetting where we are.
Now, where was I?
I've tried to return to the 9 year mind...
but my Impatient, Adult Committee tends to butt in and demand assessments and proof of ARRIVING.
Total bunk.
Anyway, I'm think I'll try various combinations of yoga (or was it Yoda?), exercise, meditiation, visualization and maybe a little red wine...
and of course, my spiritual advisor --The Blue Nun--in seeking a return to my 2nd "Bunnyland".
And for insurance, I'm gonna stand up REAL FAST...
WOW, DUDE!
Heretofore, subsequent creations shall be historically known as:
Ka Kapila Kane Blue Bunny Nunnery Period...
moody, opaque, yet somehow...irrelevant.
But in conclusion, I hope,
perhaps the little aha's may be those times you push yourself and teach a class, play a church, or put it out there and keep presenting to someone...perhaps a song for a nursing home friend, a kids' class or your favorite fish or tree...just for the Aloha of it.
If this appears to be silly and childish...remember, I'm only 9 in bunny years.
Time to go climb in.
But first gotta stand up...
woooooooooooo. |
Edited by - Kapila Kane on 05/13/2005 05:12:12 AM |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2005 : 8:03:24 PM
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Aw geez man, I told ya not to give the Kool-Aid to Goober.
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2005 : 05:29:24 AM
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LOL  |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2005 : 06:23:19 AM
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Geezsh...
I was trying to learn Hawaiian, and I thought I knew American English, but what DID he just say?
Something about a Cake in the Rain perhaps?? 
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 05/13/2005 06:24:30 AM |
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2005 : 07:16:40 AM
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mmh, the scary thing is it made sense to me...
on a similar topic: i was blown away by my freshman uke class yesterday. a week ago i took five minutes at the end of class to show them how one fingerpicks a simple version of "skip to my lou". i didn't push hard, because it's been my experience that very few have the patience to learn how to fingerpick a uke (time, level of commitment, etc). i would be happy if one or two was fingerpicking by the end of the class.
this week i asked them how they were doing with the fingerpicking. all complained that i had not written it down so they didn't remember it. that's fair; i'll write it down this weekend and email it to them. so i went over the tune again, slowly. after ten minutes, about six of the students were fingerpicking, albeit slowly. another five or six were clearly about to start doing it; it was starting to click. i then spent time with the remaining students, and by the end all but one was at the "about to click" stage.
woof.
oh, yesterday's class was our first outside. when i left, 20 minutes after the class was officially over, there were still eight students playing and enjoying the sun. two students - boy/girlfriend - were lying on their backs next to each other in the grass, looking at the clouds, their legs dangling over a cement ledge, both strumming chords to some song they were composing on the fly. most romantic thing i've seen in a long time.
aloha,
keith
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Edited by - marzullo on 05/13/2005 07:19:04 AM |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2005 : 08:36:56 AM
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KK
May da Schwartz be wit chou
Yogurt |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2005 : 10:12:54 AM
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| Seeking the "aha" moment is the best way to avoid it altogether. |
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catheglass
Lokahi
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2005 : 8:26:17 PM
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Aaaahhhh.
Mahalo to you Gordon, for starting this thread and mahalo to all you who joined in. My playing might not be perfect, <BEG> but this was the perfect thing for me to read at this perfect time.
If it comes from my heart, my fingers will follow. I needed a reminder today.
My learning curve is also slowing down, and I get frustrated 'cause I can't retain what I just played more times than i would like. But it's there, somewhere inside, and if I allow my heart to fuel my playing rather than my brain, it's mo'bettah.
Like Led says - jus' press, eh?
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cathe |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2005 : 8:59:58 PM
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I was afraid I would alienate my taropatch family when I checked on Friday morning...so I shortened my diatribes...but not enough.
Rust never sleeps
Marzullo's story was inspiring and sweet.
Today I had some very challenging kids...great to hear of someone getting it right.
And it sounds like you broke through with the kids to pure sunshine...wished I could have seen and heard it.
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