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cmdrpiffle
`Olu`olu
USA
553 Posts |
 Posted - 07/20/2005 : 06:42:54 AM
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1st of all, I'd like to congratulate myself for actually starting a thread instead of hijacking someone elses'.
I'm putting a finish on an instrument (uke) and wonder if anyone out here has used Micro Mesh for finishing?
For those who don't know...Micro Mesh is a system of sandpaper that was developed to polish aircraft windows. As an indicator....'fine' sandpaper would be 800 grit. This stuff goes to 15000.
I'm using it to polish out the finish.
Anyone out there that's used it....let me know what you think. I've heard all the sales pitches, but haven't talked to anyone that's actually used it.
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my Poodle is smarter than your honor student |
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Puna
Lokahi
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2005 : 07:47:31 AM
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Don't know about Micro Mesh specifically. When finishing my guitar, I used grits of 1000, 1500, 4000, and 8000 (and then buffing). Don't remember the brand name.
Couple words of advice...be super careful about cross contamination. For example, if you get one speck of 1000 grit on your 8000 grit paper (or instrument surface, etc.), you'll get amazing scratches. You wouldn't think it would, but I guess it's all relative.
I did all my finish work wet, using a surfactant with the paper. The surfactant was in a cup with a sponge applicator. I'd wet the sponge, let it drip on the area to be sanded (never touching). Rinse the paper (even new sheets)with fresh tap water - sand - and remove the waste with a special soft 'shop' paper towel which was then tossed. This was suppose to minimize the chance of cross contamination, and I still got scratches, which took forever to get out (and made me very nervous, since I figured I was getting close to the bottom of the lacquer layers).
Another suggestion - change direction when you change grit. So, sand left to right with the 1000 grit, up and down with 1500, and diagonal with 4000, etc. Then, you can look at the direction of the scratch to figure out where it came from (and get an idea of how deep it is).
Finally, use a very bright light at an angle to look for scratches. I used a 300 watt halogen shop light. When you move the instrument around in the light, looking at different angle, you can see that the surface you thought was perfect often needs some work. This makes a huge difference when you get to the buffing stage, since buffing usually makes 'invisible' scratches pop out.
I was told it would take about 3 hours to polish the finish. It actually took somewhere around 8. Have fun! |
Puna |
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cmdrpiffle
`Olu`olu
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2005 : 08:02:34 AM
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Eric you Rock!
Thank you. That's some of da kine info I was looking for. |
my Poodle is smarter than your honor student |
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slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2005 : 01:17:08 AM
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This is interesting. Did you ever consider using a thinner to "melt" the surface and then add another coat before polishing?
Mike |
Aloha, Mike |
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cmdrpiffle
`Olu`olu
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2005 : 07:23:45 AM
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No really, I didn't. In fact, I didn't realize that you could do that.
I didn't use a pore filler, I figured 20+ coats would take care of the problem. I was wrong on that one. Either that or I'm putting them on to thin.
I'll look into it. |
my Poodle is smarter than your honor student |
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Puna
Lokahi
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2005 : 08:20:35 AM
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I'd be cautious using thinner - you might get a 'crater' effect, where some of the lacquer thinned at a higher percentage than ddoes the lacquer near the edges of the application. I suppose you could do it - it just might be tricky getting it smooth.
Pore filler depends on the wood type. Wasn't your 'uke koa? That has fairly small pores - wouldn't have thought it would matter. I did not use pore filler on my maple.
I didn't actually spray my lacquer - that was done in a spray booth by someone wearing a Tyvek suit and respirator. I know he thinned the lacquer, but I don't know what ratio. I know we tried to keep it as thick as possible without 'glopping', but still thin enough so that it would 'flow' into dimples. We did five coats, let it cure, sand (usually with just 1000 grit), five more coats, etc. Whole process took two weeks.
Small dimples (or sand-throughs) can be fixed with an eye-dropper of lacquer. But, if you have a bunch because of pores, you may need to reshoot.
Good luck |
Puna |
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slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 01:55:26 AM
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Very good point!! Lacquer is dangerous stuff.
Mike |
Aloha, Mike |
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Mutantmoose
Aloha
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2005 : 4:21:56 PM
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Cool thing about Micro Mesh is that it is washable, so you can keep reusing it for a long time. I use it when I turn pens on my lathe, the MM buffs the CA glue finish to a high shine. And I figure, if I can wash CA glue out of MM, then it must be allright. I think it's now available as a hook n loop pad for a power sander, too. It's not aggresive at all, and won't cut too fast.
Just looked at a comparison chart, and I see that 1500 MM is equal to about 700 regular grit, 2500 MM is about 2000 regular grit, and from there it pretty blows by everything else. The only thing I polish with after MM is the handle from a paper bag, that seems to be the next finest grit!! Follow it up with some Renaissance Wax, and good to go. |
Mark
"In the business of enriching lives for 15 years." |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2005 : 10:47:31 AM
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First, a worthless answer; YES, it works great on airplane windsheilds!
Second, a question some may find bordering on the ridiculous (What would anyone expect,coming from me?); why do folks spend so much time on the finish of an instrument. Let me back track here just a bit...I am building a Weissenborn, first and probably last guitar i will ever make. I will have put plenty of time into materials, mesuring, cutting, fitting,. glueing, clamping. Other than the obvious beauty of a well finished guitar, is there any really GOOD reason to spend that kind of time and effort on the finish?
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Karl
Frozen North |
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Puna
Lokahi
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2005 : 09:08:01 AM
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I went with lacquer instead of other choices because in addition to the depth and beauty of the lacquer finish, it also adds a layer of protection. It guards against small nicks and scratches, and also provides some protection against moisture--not humidity, but spills.
The recommended cleaning process is a soft cloth with warm water...can't do that with some of my other instruments.
Timewise...I spent about 100 hours (over five months) building the guitar. I spent about 15 hours (over one month) on the finishing.
After spending the 100 hours, another 15 to get beauty and protection seemed like a good deal |
Puna |
Edited by - Puna on 08/16/2005 09:10:29 AM |
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cmdrpiffle
`Olu`olu
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2005 : 09:31:30 AM
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Actually,
I'm pretty full of myself, and I figure the higher the shine, the more I can look at my reflection in the finish!
That, and I got lucky and have a world class curly koa on the front and back, and I want it to just shine. |
my Poodle is smarter than your honor student |
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Mutantmoose
Aloha
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 08:57:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Karl Monetti
Second, a question some may find bordering on the ridiculous (What would anyone expect,coming from me?); why do folks spend so much time on the finish of an instrument.
Well, for me, it has a lot to do with making the instrument last. If the finish is string and durable, then the instrument itself is likely to last longer because the areas of wear will be impacted much more slowly. Nothing like unwanted holes in the top of the guitar to wreck the sound.
And then there is the sound quality. I guess we could all just put a sheet of counter laminate on the top of our guitars to keep them from harm, but that might not sound good.
Beauty is good, if I buy some cool bookmatched koa, I want people to look at it and say "Damn, that's some nice bookmatched koa there." (Hopefully not with the followup phrase "I think I'll steal that guitar.")
Future repairs might play a part too. If the finish is right, repair should be easy. On the opposite end of the spectrum are those Fender electric guitars from the late 70's with the huge finish on the neck that makes a refret job almost impossible without a blowtorch and a chisel.
And then there is the Hummer factor. Why do people buy Hummers? I'm sure that some people have gorgeous guitars for the same reason...
Mark |
Mark
"In the business of enriching lives for 15 years." |
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