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Bing
Lokahi
USA
100 Posts |
 Posted - 09/05/2005 : 09:39:58 AM
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A friend of mine is making a DVD documentary on surfing legends and asked to use my recording of “Hi’ilawe as back ground music for an interview he is doing. I play the version from Keola and Mark’s book
“Learn to Play Hawaiian Slack-Key Guitar” where they give writing credit to Mrs. Kuakini. Does anyone know if this song is in public domain or if I need to get permission from anyone for this.
Thanks for the help.
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Bing |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 10:04:05 AM
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The song is old enough that it should be in the public domain, though that doesn't mean that someone hasn't registered copyright to some version of it (A.P. Carter, among others, claimed ownership of all kinds of Appalachian tunes). And if you recorded a particular arrangement, learned from a published-and-copyrighted source, then there are ownership issues. There are folks who know the ins and outs of this better than I do, but I think you need to do some checking.
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 1:30:56 PM
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The original melody is in public domain; it was first published in Hawaii about 1888-90. It is derived from a Portuguese folk song. A significant number of other Hawaiian songs also in strophic form (verses only -- no chorus. And verse is a couplet) share this same melody. This older version is okay to use, if you stick to the melody line.
Hi`ilawe is Gabby's signature song. When a Hawaiian thinks of slack key, they think of Gabby and Hi`ilawe". The first recording and publication of Hi`ilawe in 1946 by Gabby represents a paradigm moment in slack key, where for the first time a broader public became exposed to slack key guitar. It was no longer just a simple but beautiful Hawaiian song played at home or in the backyard, it had now become a mass media commodity. The melody that Gabby uses is newer from about 1934, or thereabouts. The lyrics remain the same. Copyright on the newer melody belonged to Johnny Noble, off the top of my head the song's title was "In a Canoe" or something along that line. Johnny Noble's publishing catalog was acquired in its entirety by Miller Music, Inc., and was later sold to 3M, I'm not aware as to what the ownership issue is at this point for this version.
Keola's and Mark's version use the Noble melody. Assuming that the proper derivative licenses were obtained, there would probably be some kind of split on royalties, normally with some form of compensation going to the holder of the original copyright (3M?) and then the split with whatever publishing entity that Keola has set up.
This particular song title has a lot of copyright baggage attached to it and it would be best to secure the services of an intellectual property rights attorney to obtain the necessary clearances. Of all the Hawaiian songs, "Hi`ilawe" probably has had the most legal activity surrounding it, not so much actual copyright suits, but the threats to file suit. Be careful on this one.
PM |
Edited by - Peter Medeiros on 09/05/2005 4:32:36 PM |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 2:48:00 PM
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quote:
Keola's and Mark's version use the Noble melody.
Actually, it's Keola's version, pretty much the same one he published in his earlier book. I had nothing to do with it, save laying out the page. To the best of my knowledge based on what I could find at the time, the "Mrs. Kuakini" authorship was pretty much accepted and the song was very firmly in the public domain.
F'raid I have to plead ignorance on the "ownership" of the melody -- or even if anyone could be said to own it at this point. I had never heard this story, nor had I seen anything about it until just this minute. As I have said, Peter, I learn something new everytime you write in. I'm going to reserve comment until I can learn more. I'd love to get a source on this.
Still this is a very interesting development. I plead the fifth. I wasn't there. We're just friends. I never met the woman...
But, in a more general sense, it is never a good idea to record an arrangement you learned from a book, because somebody will most certainly have ownership of the arrangement. In that case, at the very least you'll need to get permission, and possible do the royalty dance. Of course, if you learned it from the CD, then you can always record it, providing you work out the mechanicals... no permission needed. (Confused? I don't blame you.)
So Bing, I'd suggest one of two courses:
1) Find another song, prefferably one that is firmly in the public domain and your own arrangement, or
2) Get in touch with Keola and see what he has to say.
Hey, I'll offer a third option: I'd be happy to let your bud use anything I've done -- the ones that pass the "pd or fully owned" test, that is.
good luck!
Mark |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 2:51:51 PM
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Peter-I keep running into this kind of complexity when I want to establish authorship of a song: Old tune with new words, old words set to new tune, multiple sets of words to a given tune (and vice versa), multiple attributions of authorship, and so on. "Hi`ilawe" is the one that causes the most puzzlement because it's so famous and frequently recorded--I found three different attributions as I did my research (the ones summarized on the Huapala site). And that's not even getting into the stylistic variations arising from performance.
The midi file of the melody on Huapala (presumably from Sonny Cunha's Music Book, 1902--so would that be close to the Portuguese ancestor?) sounds pretty close to Gabby's--is the Johnny Noble version an adaptation of the older tune or a new setting for the old words? Stuff like this makes me remember why my editors emphasized that my book isn't a work of musicology.
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 3:45:06 PM
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The huapala.org Midi file is the Noble version. One of the things that Johnny Noble did systematically was take either a public domain tune or lyric and create a new copyright in order to acquire the publishing royalties. He was basically following along the lines of Charles E. King who had built a million dollar publishing empire. Both were talented musicians, arrangers, band leaders and producers.
Charlie King was older by about twenty years and resisted the temptation to make rag time or early jazz arrangements of Hawaiian tunes. He more or less developed further a more languid style of Hawaiian music -- like parlor music. Johnny Noble on the other hand followed along the lines of Sonny Cunha going full speed ahead into Jazz -- doing contemporary arrangements of traditional Hawaiian music. A lot of the stuff in "Johnny Noble's Royal Collection of Hawaiian Songs" he lifted directly from the an 1898 publication called the "Aloha Collection of Hawaiian Songs" put out by Charlie Hopkins, published by Oliver Ditson, and the 1914 edition of "Famous Hawaiian Songs" by A.R. Cunha.
Right now I'm looking at 1902 collection of Hawaiian music arranged by A.R. Cunha entitled "Songs of Hawaii". If you want I can pdf you a copy of "Halialaulani" the original title of Hi'ilawe. It uses the original melody. I have another copy from an older collection, but it is so fragile I cannot safely handle it.
Sam Li'a is actually the composer of this song according to Eddie Kamae. I have also seen a claim by a Martha Maui probaly a psuedonym for false claim. Steve Siegfried, producer Panini Record, told me when they released the Brown Gabby album with Hi'ilawe (which by the way launched the Hawaiian Renaissance) eighteen claims for the Hi'ilawe copyright were filed against them.
PM |
Edited by - Peter Medeiros on 09/05/2005 3:58:06 PM |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 6:21:14 PM
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Thanks to Peter and Mark for deep and recent background. It's under-explored paths like these that make me wish that my deadline could recede another six months--or that I could publish serially, like Dickens.
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 8:12:49 PM
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Hey, Russell,
What's happening with your book? Mind giving an update? |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2005 : 06:13:11 AM
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The book is supposed to be nearing completion (again), and maybe this time it really is. I'm trying to fill in research holes in the third section, which covers the "Renaissance generation" players. Currently the manuscript (well, the fileset) is around 70,000 words with another 10,000 to be written or edited into shape.
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2005 : 08:12:57 AM
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quote:
Right now I'm looking at 1902 collection of Hawaiian music arranged by A.R. Cunha entitled "Songs of Hawaii". If you want I can pdf you a copy of "Halialaulani" the original title of Hi'ilawe. It uses the original melody.
Peter,
I'd love to see a copy.
quote:
One of the things that Johnny Noble did systematically was take either a public domain tune or lyric and create a new copyright in order to acquire the publishing royalties.
This kind of thing is all to frequent in the folk world, too. Russell mentioned AP Carter -- at least he had the decency to "imrove" on some of the older songs he, umm, stole. Roy Acuff claims authorship of "Wabash Cannonball" - a song dating from sometime around 1902, according to Utah Phillips.
If Noble's melody can be shown to predate his copyright, such as if you can find an earlier printed version of the melody, regardless of the words, he and his assigns can basically go suck eggs.
Incidentally, I'm guilty of much the same thing. On the advice of a lawyer, I registered arrangements for tons of pd fiddle tunes with BMI for my first few LPs. It's not the same as trying to claim I wrote 'em, but it sure looks funny when you look at my song credits on line. Of course, the big difference is I would never try to claim royalties if you record "Joke on the Puppy."
I think we should all listen to Shakepeare's advice...
cheers,
Mark
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2005 : 10:21:23 AM
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I think we should all listen to Shakepeare's advice...
"to thine own self be true" might be the reference.
Good choice of quote source, since there is now ample evidence that some of the works credited to Shakespeare were written by Sir Francis Bacon and others!!
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2005 : 12:40:35 PM
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Mark,
I'm unable to email the pdf to you, send a note to my school address at petermed @ hawaii.edu and I can piggyback it to you.
PM |
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islandboo
Lokahi
USA
237 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2005 : 1:00:39 PM
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| "The first thing we do, let's kill all the [copyright?] lawyers". - (Act IV, Scene II,Henry VI, Part II) |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 07:51:15 AM
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quote:
"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers". - (Act IV, Scene II,Henry VI, Part II)
Bingo.
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