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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
 Posted - 03/13/2006 : 6:35:32 PM
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I've been trying to find an easy way to get traditional Hawaii beats (I have terrible rhythm) and I'm wondering if any has made their own loops of ipu heke or other traditional instruments? Has anyone found and built hula beats in loop programs?
Ideally the loops would adjust to the BPM signature in Garageband or other recording program.
I'm a novice, so speak slowly...
Jesse Tinsley
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 08:31:51 AM
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*You* have terrible rythm!??!? You are kidding, right?
Since I have No Soul (tm) - I can't even clap off the beat, I have been thinking of doing the same thing as backup/accompaniment to Sarah's recordings. Adobe Audition makes it really easy and even comes with a slew of prerecorded loops you can use, if you wanted too.
My idea, which I am gonna experiment with, is to record "atomic primitives", such as a bunch of `uke chord strums. I can do one at a time really well :-) Then with the "library" of atoms, I will just assemble a string of them and loop as required. Assembly is easy, as AA allows time stretching without pitch change (so I can match most any tempo - BPM, whatever - and even fudge it a bit in places if Sarah is not exctly regular) and I can easily link the atoms at zero crossings. Then, I will loop until an appropriate ending.
(I bet I could assemble a robot Jake :-)
As for ipu heke, that would seem simple to get. First I would rip the ipu (or pahu, or whatever) strikes from a CD. There are plenty appropriate CDs out there and almost all chant or hula beginnings have ipu alone to establish the rythm, as well as in gaps where there is no voice. They also almost always have that riff they use at the end, by itself. Then, I would do the atomic stringing thing described above - 1st 2 strikes, then 4, then 8... until I had what I needed. If you are gonna use it like a click track and lay it down first, you would only need one (surrounded by the appropriate tiny duration of silence) and then loop that single strike pattern.
So, no I haven't actually done it, but I will.
...Reid
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 09:13:56 AM
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Hi Reid,
The assembly method was what I was thinking of doing, too. I picked up a gourd at a flea market and was going to record some rhythm, then cut the sound file down to the length of a measure and then replicate it to complete a song.
But I was hoping someone had already done the work for me....;)
Jesse Tinsley |
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Bwop
Lokahi
USA
244 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 2:17:50 PM
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Aloha no e Jesse,
E kala mai, but I have some reservemanashuns about dis kine "robot music". I'm sure you wizes can make stuffs from music atoms, but if it can't exist on the real planet earth, why boddah? Music is play, music is work, music is love. You are one consumate magician musician, and you can learn 'em planny good bumbye. Melinda and I just took a workshop by Mark Ho'omalu's guy Carrie and made ipu heke, but I figgah anuddah ten yeah befo' I can bang da ting with any useful purpose. Jus' press, jus' whack. Your riddum is great, let your fingahs do the walkin'! Aloha! |
Bwop |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 3:33:12 PM
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quote:
My idea, which I am gonna experiment with, is to record "atomic primitives", such as a bunch of `uke chord strums.
Yes- and a formalized name for an organized bunch of uke chord strums (or even single string picks)... is a Sound Font.
You can get these all over the place (maybe even uke ones).
Hook it up with a MIDI soft synth and:
You put the sound font in,
you put the sound font out,
you put the sound font in,
and you stir it all about,
Thats... what.. it's all about.
(for MIDI robot-like sounds that is)
However, it does make a pretty good rythm track to play against and the percussion stuff can sound very real.
(I know... kinda makes Bwop want to throw-up don't it)
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 03/14/2006 3:34:26 PM |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 3:36:11 PM
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It's a loopy world out there, guys!
The usual way to do something like this is to record a handful of different strokes on your percussion instrument -- say a side slap or two, a deep thump, a tap, whatever -- you get the idea. Cut the audio file directly to the beginning of the sound -- zoom in close. That gives you a bunch of little audio files -- what Reid's calling "atoms." Name them something descriptive.
Then you can either load them into a sampler or drum pads and play away, or copy them as many times as you need and paste 'em to make a short loop. Ususally a couple of bars is all you need.
If you have a sequencer, choose "quantize" to automatically line up the downbeats where you want them. "Groove quantize" lets you apply a pre determined groove -- like a slight shuffle. "Humanize" adds some randomness back in to keep it sounding totally robotic.
Once they are in a sequencer, changing the tempo is a piece of cake.
So's adjusting stuff to a previously recorded performance. Most professional DAWs (digital audio workstations) let you create a tempo map by tapping along with the performance; better ones can do a fairly good job of guessing the tempo fluctuations by analysing the audio file. At the very least, you can dig in and manually adjust the drum hits till they match. Real music does speed up and slow down -- it's called "expression." (Too much is call "yuck.")
BTW: The general rule on percussion loops is to vary something slightly every fourth iteration.
Loops are terrific practice tools -- much more fun than playing along to a metronome. Playing along to a set tempo is the quickest way to improve -- and it'll really help your playing when you're playing with another live musician.
The reason great musicians have great time is because they practice playing in time.
Gotta go, the robot needs oiling.
Mark
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 3:46:40 PM
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Hey Bwop, you sound good on the Aloha in the Redwoods recording! Your kids, too!
If I had anyone to play Hawaiian music with, I wouldn't be looking for loops! But I'm really just wanting to build some simple percussion tracks and nothing in my electronic keyboard or drum loops sounds like an ipu. I don't think I'll build a sound font, just a few measures that can be duped as necessary. I think I could use Audacity to change speeds on the short clips without changing pitch.
Thanks for the info.
Jesse Tinsley |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 4:07:29 PM
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| Sorry to hear that Sarah is not regular |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2006 : 04:44:15 AM
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Bwop,
In the Beginning Before Recording and Mastering (BBRM), I ,too, had the naive notion that recorded sound was supposed to be "natural", realistic, and utterly unprocessed.
Now that I know just enough to be dangerous, it is quite clear that there ain't no such thing. Every time a sound pressure wave hits a mic (or a wall of the room, or your ear drum), every time there is any conversion to digital, every time there is any interaction with any object, every time *anything* is done to it, the music is changed and becomes "artificial".
I am still what you might call a "minimalist", but I have shaped so much sound already, that I have no qualms about doing other stuff in the sonic realm.
Too bad the world is not ideal, right?
...Reid |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2006 : 10:41:28 AM
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I tried to produce my own soundbite of an ipu that could be looped, but the background room tone made a hiccup between each iteration I cut and pasted into the timeline in Garageband.
But I did use an ipu on a song while recording, and found that I could hold the beat for about a minute then I start to wander.
Here's a song:
http://users.adelphia.net/~jessehj/HeWahineUi.mp3
I mixed the ipu in and it might be lost in the mix. I've also never posted an mp3, so if you have trouble making it play, I probably can't help.
I may try Reid's suggestion of sampling a commercial recording, but I'm still looking for one.
Jesse Tinsley |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2006 : 11:22:33 AM
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Jesse,
We have quite a few chant CDs. Give me a few days and I will try to find some approppriate clips and send them to you. I won't edit the clips tightly; I'll let you do that.
One of the things that occurred to me is that if you edit out the *end* of the "font" too closely, you don't get the "sustain" of the sound. The next thing I would do is overlap the beginning of the next "font" with the end of the previous one before it decayed completely. It might sound more natural and less staccato that way.
Anyway, I'll search.
...Reid |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2006 : 07:41:41 AM
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Thanks for the tip about overlapping the soundbites. I thought I would be using the soundbites end to end to keep the rhythm even.
Here's another song I recorded using my cheapo keyboard rhythm keys to create a hula beat:
http://users.adelphia.net/~jessehj/KeAlaOKaRose.mp3
When mixed in deep enough, the fake sounds don't stick out too badly.
Jesse Tinsley
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Bwop
Lokahi
USA
244 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2006 : 3:13:48 PM
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Ho, Jesse!
I jus listen to your recording. I shut up now. You one great group. Geeb 'em! |
Bwop |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2006 : 6:43:52 PM
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OK... I cannot resist...
All this talk of loops reminds me of a song Pulelehua taught me:
Loop-de-loop thru the noodle soup,
just to give your socks a shine.
I'm guilty judge, I stole the fudge,
THREE CHEERS for old lang syne
Way down in Barcelonia,
they jump into the foamee'ah
But that is just Balognia,
Padaruski blow your horn!!
(an old Camp Song)
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 07:29:46 AM
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Jesse, the latest recording was Mormon Tabernacle Choir *gorgeous*, as Bwop, said.
Then there is the "but"...
The *only* thing that didn't work right was the "pseudo ipu" slaps. I found it distracting that it was only coming from the right channel. Even if not centered, as it usually is, because the kumu/chanter is the center of attraction, it should be audible from both channels. Then, the first strike/slap didn't seem to always be on the beat, or else the subsidiary da-da-da was in the wrong place (where it wouldn't be if this were really an ipu-based vocal) occasionally.
Maybe this is just the wrong song for it, BUT I have some (2) real ipu clips for you (which I emailed you about) and they are a series of 4 standard ipu sequences, hence a measure, which you should be able to simply drop into any 4/4 song. Try them in a substitute track and center them in the mix. There are also 2 ending ipu sequences for you.
Oh yeah, the ipu should be synched to the `uke which is doing essentially the same rythm pattern.
Then let us listen again.
...Reid
PS. I can get you some pahu, too, if you want.
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Edited by - Reid on 03/21/2006 07:34:01 AM |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2006 : 05:54:33 AM
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So here's the first experiment with some drum samples Reid sent me by email. After trying to stitch them together, I found that a few milliseconds were missing from the beginning of the clips, making for a slightly jerky rhythm. So I spaced the clips out to even out the main beats but found the room tone (background noise floor) to be somewhat high so that there was a distinct start and stop to the clips. My solution was to dip the volume a little bit between clips.
Here's a sample:
http://users.adelphia.net/~jessehj/ipurhythm.mp3
I'll try this again, perhaps taking a new sample that has a little more time on the front end of the clip. It sounds pretty cool, though.
Jesse Tinsley |
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