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Bing
Lokahi
USA
100 Posts |
 Posted - 04/21/2006 : 06:26:51 AM
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I’m thinking about adding a nylon string guitar to my guitar quiver. I’d love to get some opinions on which classical guitars people like for Slack Key. I’m thinking in the $500. to 1,200. range. Any advise would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Bing
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Bing |
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sandman
Lokahi
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2006 : 06:40:38 AM
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Bing, I have a La Patrie Collection, the top of the line classical made by Godin, who also makes Seagull acoustics. They are a Canadian company which allegedly is supported in part or in some way by the government. This allows for a lower price and higher quality because of their access to certain woods, etc. Accurate or not, the Collection when I bought it came in under your bottom line, even with an excellent hardshell case. I think today, with an eq (which I don't have)and a hardshell case, it would still be around $600 although I have not priced them recently. The Godin website gives the specs but basically it is a solid wood, very nicely made guitar. Good bass and it gets better with age, as we all should.
Please give me a holler if you want more specifics.
Are you still in Cabo? I was down there last week and the weather sure was fine. No wind until Friday.
Malama pono,
Sandy |
Leap into the boundless and make it your home.
Zhuang-zi |
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cmdrpiffle
`Olu`olu
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2006 : 09:26:02 AM
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Bing,
Good Morning!
I'm not so sure the brand of guitar is going to make that much difference so much as the neck. A 'standard' classical is going to be joined at the 12th fret, so that alone can limit some of the higher reach notes.
That said, I have an old Ramirez built just like that, and it works absolutely fine, as long as the song being played is in the range of the neck.
You may consider some of the nylon stringed guitars like Yamaha's ABX. It joins at the 14th fret and has a compensated saddle.
My $0.02 anyway. Raymond I think still plays exclusively nylon, he may have some good insight.
Cheers,
Mike |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2006 : 09:58:42 AM
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Bing,
I looked at a lot of classical guitars and played many of the high end ones. I had a difficult time transitioning from a steel string guitar with a cutaway. The fret spacing was different, there were no dots to tell me where I was on the fretboard, and the nut width was generally wider. I did really like the tone on many of them but kept coming back to the "playability" issues.
I finally ended up with a Taylor guitar from their Nylon Series. This guitar had a similar feel to my steel string and I did not have as much difficulty in the left hand finger memory positions as I did with the classical guitars I played.
I tried many of the models and altered the tunings for some of my more favorite songs. This narrowed down my selection to tone desired and playability. I ended up with the larger body style, a cutaway, and the pickup built in. The maple body seemed too bright for me. The mahogany/sapele had no visual appeal. The rosewood sang to me and convinced me that she was the right one. My model is the NS74 which also happens to be at the top end.
One drawback is this guitar does not sound like a Spanish classical guitar. It has its own unique sound that closely resembles Keola Beamer's double puka Grimes nylon string guitar. I prefer my versions of Ku'u Home 'O Kahalu'u and He Punahele No 'Oe on this nylon string to the same songs/same tunings on my koa steel string.
I really like the ability to pick and choose what songs to play on what guitar and when I bring two guitars to a gig or open mike I have them preset to two different tunings, minimizing time spent playing that short improvisational chinese song -- too neeng. |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2006 : 10:05:20 AM
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I wouldn't worry much about the 12-fret neck--remember that before the 1930s, that was the standard even for steel-strings. When I play a 12-fretter, I don't have any problems, even when going for Uncle Ray's 17th-fret high G. Normally the highest position I play is the 14th, which is not a big challenge (just arch the wrist and hand a bit). I have more trouble recalibrating my eye when switching between necks, since a good bit of my position-judging seems to depend on where I think the 12th fret is relative to the body, but even that is a matter of waiting for the right set of values to load into the neurological control buffers.
On the matter of position dots--that can be fixed by a competent repairman (one who's used to dealing with cosmetic issues), who can add small dots to the side of the fingerboard. A moderately brave and steady-handed layman could even do it with a small drill and some colored epoxy.
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Edited by - Russell Letson on 04/21/2006 10:11:11 AM |
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Bing
Lokahi
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2006 : 10:15:28 AM
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Thanks guys,
It seems the 12 fret issue would not be a problem with a cutaway. I am just learning He Punahele and I think it would sound better on a nylon string guitar. I guess it would be smart of me to Just demo as many as I can until one feels right.
I would still like to hear from more nylon players.
Bing |
Bing |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2006 : 10:51:28 AM
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Bing, I am with Russell on the 12 fret issue. We have 2 12 fretters, and it is not hard to do what Russell describes. I have found that an important part of the ability to go higher on the fretboard is the shape of the neck's heel. One, a classical, has a "hook" in the heel that allows my thumb to remain there while my short fingers can get up to the 17 fret. And the other one, a 12 fret 0 size steel string, has a very small heel protrusion, which allows about the same reach. Neither have, nor need, a cutaway.
Side dots are very easily inserted. You can buy a set of MOP or Ab dots and do it yourself, as a friend of mine has done, or any garden variety tech can do it inexpensively and quickly.
The luthier who made my classical, Paul McGill, pointed out to me that, given the thicker nylon strings, the interstring distance on a 2 inch neck is just about the same as steel strings on a 1 3/4" neck. Not hard to adapt to.
Go for the tone.
...Reid |
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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2006 : 10:54:28 AM
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To my ear wahine tunings just sound so much sweeter on a nylon string instrument. As much as I enjoy playing my steel-string guitar, my Ramirez R-4 is definitely the favorite. It's not inexpensive, but I got a very good price at a Guitar Center store.
And yes, it's really nice to just pick up the classical and not have to tune five strings to get from Taro Patch to F-Wahine.
On the other hand, those barres in He Punahele on the wider neck are a challenge, at least for me.
Larry |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2006 : 2:35:43 PM
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Well, I play almost exclusively on classical style guitars because I like the sound. I like the cutaway, but I played for years without it and still managed ok. As written many times - which guitar -- well go to a good store and play a bunch - that may be harder in slack tunings 'cause the nylon strings don't adapt very quickly, but it is doable. If I were buying again, on the cheaper end, I would probably pick up one of the Kenny Hill models. He is duplicating the work on many of the great old classical models. I think you get a lot for your money. My first one came through a want add in our local newspaper - a real cheapey that I still love to play on.
My best suggestion is to allow yourself enough time and have some fun shopping.
Good luck
PS
Two other things I forgot - Apparichio (sp?) guitars have gotten very good reviews for low end instruments. Also, some of the guitars coming from Parecho, Mexico are very good for their price -- in the 750USD range. Beware the real cheapies. There was a guy in Berkely, CA who handled them - lost the contact but I originally found it on the Acoustic Guitar website. |
Edited by - RJS on 04/21/2006 3:43:41 PM |
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Mainkaukau
Lokahi
USA
245 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2006 : 6:00:26 PM
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Howsit Bing, I suggest you add to your sample list a Takamine Harade. I've put mine through the accidental drop test, the long distance travel test, the play in the rain test, the record in studio test, the "no break string" playing live test and the "Kanikapila" for hours test and the sounds from the guitar still makes me smile after all these years. Have fun in your search for the holy guitar grail. Alohas,
PS: Still waiting for my steel string...year 2 |
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sandman
Lokahi
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2006 : 6:30:29 PM
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My best suggestion is to allow yourself enough time and have some fun shopping.
Good luck
Apparichio (sp?) guitars have gotten very good reviews for low end instruments. Also, some of the guitars coming from Parecho, Mexico are very good for their price -- in the 750USD range. Beware the real cheapies. There was a guy in Berkely, CA who handled them - lost the contact but I originally found it on the Acoustic Guitar website.
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I think Thinmanmusic.com is the contact you are thinking of. He has had different classicals from Paracho and carries Lucinda and others now. He has a Yamaha marked down from >USD12,000 to around USD6,000 if you are interested. For what it's worth, and it's not that important, many classical guitars have fret markers on both top and side.
As others have said, shop around and enjoy the experience.
Sandy |
Leap into the boundless and make it your home.
Zhuang-zi |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
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Bing
Lokahi
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2006 : 11:58:52 AM
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Thanks Craig, I think I’m looking for something more traditional primarily to use for the C and F Wahine tunings.
Bing |
Bing |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2006 : 12:34:33 PM
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| No problem! |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2006 : 2:49:30 PM
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I can recomend a brand.
I have three classicals, an expensive old Alvarez-Yairi CY-140, a $500.00 LaPatrie cw, and a $450.00 Alvarez AC60-SC. Thea AC60 is a cut away with Piezo and Mic pickup built in. Recently I recorded all the songs I know to date, and the AC60 is the best sounding of all my guitars in the recordings. It is also a consitently good model. I would sell my LaPatri cw if interested (because I want another Alvarez). |
Bob |
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parlorplayer
Aloha
16 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 7:21:08 PM
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I have a Kenny Hill Fingerstyle made in China. I bought it used and have discovered that even though the label says "Fingerstyle" it's probably the La Curva model. When I first played it and tried Punahele, I couldn't believe how much easier it was to play than any guitar in my growing collection of steel string guitars. It has an Engelman top/rosewood back and sides. The bass is shocking--deep and rich and the trebles are clear with great sustain. --no plunky nylon sounds. It's a cutaway too. I thought the two inch nut width would be a problem but it's not at all.
The place that someone mentioned in Berkeley might be www.berkeleymusic.com or www.marcsilbermusic.com/. They were partners in the Mexico guitar venture. Kenny Hill started there too, but now his New World series are from China. I also have an old Hirade master series and somehow it just doesn't sound good to me at all for slack key. Good luck on your quest! |
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