| Author |
 Topic  |
|
cdyas
Akahai
67 Posts |
 Posted - 10/21/2002 : 3:47:19 PM
|
Mahalo everyone for sharing your experiences with slack key.
I started playing guitar not too long ago and not having any background was having a hard time, even though I was practicing and taking lessons. I decided to look into playing slack key since it was close to the heart. I started to fool around with the Keola's online lessons and with Ozzie's book and although I am still taking baby steps I am having alot of fun. The music just makes sense.
Which leads to my questions of "How many fingers do you use on your playing hand"? and should I even worry about it?
Since I am a beginner I rely on my index finger and sometimes my middle finger since it came naturally, but should I slow down and work on using my middle and ring finger more? Probably frustrating at first but will I be better off in the long run when I progress to songs that are more difficult?
Aloha
Chris
|
|
|
wdf
Ha`aha`a
USA
1153 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2002 : 4:00:58 PM
|
Use as many as you feel you need. Everyone is different. Ray Kane uses mostly thumb and index finger, Ozzie Kotani uses all of them.
As John Keawe says, "Use whatever finger is closest." |
Dusty |
Edited by - wdf on 10/21/2002 4:03:21 PM |
 |
|
|
kihoalukid
Lokahi
USA
289 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2002 : 4:06:54 PM
|
| im no pro,but my 2 cents worth, id suggest start trying to use your thumb and 3 fingers (at least 2 fingers). theres no denying that some of the legends of slack key, blues, etc have done amazing stuff with a thumb and an index finger and you couldnt improve their work, but if you want to eventually play (or try to play-ha) songs by artists like keola, ozzie etc (and dont we all?), youll need those extra fingers, and the best time to start learning to use them is when your beginning. |
Lee |
|
|
|
cgriffin
Aloha
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2002 : 4:19:43 PM
|
I concur that you should use all fingers: P I M and A. There's a great Classical Guitar book by Aaron Shearer, the first volume is all about technique. I think it makes a lot of sense to get it and read it so that you can avoid any problematic habits early on.
I played classical so it was quite natural to go right into using all fingers but my pinky. But I'm just a slack-key neophyte.
|
--
Chris Griffin
|
|
|
|
Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2002 : 4:28:16 PM
|
Chris,
Are you referring to your picking hand or fretting hand? I was not totally clear on this.
If you're talking about your picking hand, I have some confusion here myself. When I began learning slack key, it was natural for me to use by thumb, index and middle fingers (while anchoring my pinky.) Influenced by guys like Ozzie and Keola, I started seeing the benefit of using my ring finger too (no longer anchoring my pinky), especially for arpeggios. Now I suffer some sort of picking hand schizophrenia - not sure which to use. How bad is it to change it depending on how you feel?
Maybe as a beginner, you can avoid these problems and bad habits. Strive for good technique from the start meaning to work your ring finger in too. Ultimately, you will find what is best for you. |
Andy |
|
|
|
Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2002 : 5:28:48 PM
|
Chris (cdyas), use as many fingers as you can because you'll want them all at times. I hardly ever use my pinky, but I surprised myself the other day. I guess nothing else was available?
John, Led changed some time recently; he now uses thumb and two fingers. I remember because someone asked him about it at the workshop. I don't recall his answer; he was turned slightly away as he spoke to the other person. He definitely wore two plastic finger picks (tortoise shell color), plus thumb (white or ivory). |
Pauline |
|
|
|
ohanabrown
Lokahi
281 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2002 : 11:07:54 PM
|
Aloha "Kalo,Patch" Ohana's.
Everybody hit it right on the nose.
2,3,4,or 5, Fingers, Which ever one is
comfortable for you. Thats the one you use.
Sometimes useing the thumb and index finger
you have to work a little harder to get the full sound. You still can do it with both fingers but again, The more you use,(fingers)
the greater the sound will be.(I use Thumb&Index).
I've noticed those that play classical guitars when they play slack key they have a full sound and there fingers aren't working as much but, still have that great sound. The thumb & index players can have that same full sound as the classical but, We have to work jus a little harder. And then again? It really doesn't matter
As Raymond Kanes famous saying goes.
IT'S NOT HOW FAST! YOU PLAY.
BUT, HOW SWEET! YOU CAN MAKE IT SOUND!
Malama Pono!
Kevin.
|
|
|
|
cgriffin
Aloha
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2002 : 10:31:42 AM
|
It's good to look at classical technique because they have it all worked out how to get the most ergonomically correct motion from them fingers without causing excess tension in th hand. In the end, any tension in the hands or body (especially arms, shoulders, back) is going to get you, and you'll have trouble.
For instance, when I was playing classical guitar I took lessons from a woman who did masters classes with Segovia. I figured she had to know her shit, but she taught me some really bad habits which ended up causing RSI in my right hand and wrist. I had to lay off guitar playing for several months to get better.
Planting the pinky is a really bad idea. That is going to cause tension and strain on the hand muscles. The best idea is to play with right hand totally relaxed and minimum motion, while having enough carry through to produce a clear consistent tone. If you can keep the wrist relatively straight, that is pretty good. I've noticed that some great players play with a fairly extreme sideways bend of the wrist, including Keola Beamer. i guess if it works for you, that's fine, but it may cause problems in the long run as it's not a natural position for the right hand.
Once again, the Aaron Shearer "How to Play Classic Guitar, Vol 1" is a must read for this. There is very little about classical guitar music in this book, it's all just technique which applies very directly to slack key, especially if you're playing a nylon string instrument.
If you really work with the book, you'll find that about 90% is immediately helpful for a beginner, and the the other 10% is stuff you can come back and study later when you're more advanced, or it may be applicable more to classical guitarrists.
Chris |
--
Chris Griffin
|
|
|
|
marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2002 : 7:42:23 PM
|
on the number of pickin' fingers, i put picks (alaska) on three fingers and a zookie on my thumb. i use them all, but if i'm being absent-minded, i'll start to gravitate towards one finger and the thumb unless i'm arpeggiating a chord. the one finger i drift towards is my ring finger, i think because of the way i hold my hand, i can get a good pluck out of it. on the uke, too, i tend to strum with my ring finger and thumb.
i became aware of all this stuff when recording "isa lei" for the RMMGA-III CD. when i tried to break myself, i found that me picking with my index finger sounds different than when i pick with my ring finger. i don't know why.
so i had a beer and tried another take of "isa lei". i should look at shearer's book.
jwn, i play in "classical" style because i found it easier to do barre chords that way. but, i try to swap around a bit. i find the best position to play, all things considered, is with my feet on maui.
aloha,
keith
|
Keith |
|
|
|
richonmaui
Aloha
7 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2002 : 1:50:43 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by cdyas
I started playing guitar not too long ago and not having any background was having a hard time, even though I was practicing and taking lessons.
<snip>
Which leads to my questions of "How many fingers do you use on your playing hand"? and should I even worry about it?
Hey Chris - good topic!! My first lesson with Ozzie he suggested something about number of fingers that just stuck with me. I was a total newbie to the guitar, and Ozzie said to pick with whatever is comfortable, but... then he said... as a beginner you are going to develop habits. Why not start with a habit of using more fingers. It will give you more flexibility as you progeress.
Then he suggested that I "assign one finger to each string" as a way of developing that new habit. So now I almost always use ring on the first, middle on the second and pointer on the third. It's just habit now.
Good luck with your slack key "habit" !! 
A hui hou
Rich |
--
Huli i ka nani o na mea apau!
--
HawaiianRainbow - Hawaiian Music Now in MP3Pro Stereo!
Streaming da kine in stereo since 1999!
http://www.HawaiianRainbow.com
HawaiianRainbow is an officially licensed ASACP and BMI Station
,.-*"*-.,<º))))><"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,<º))))><
,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"><((((º>,.-*"*-.,,.-*"><((((º>
,.-*"*-.,<º))))><"*-.,,.-*"*-., |
|
|
|
David
Akahai
92 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2002 : 9:12:35 PM
|
How many fingers? Depends on how many surviving fingernails I have at the time. Fortunately I'm on a good run with the nails .. they have been healthy and intact for several months. But uh-oh, I'm thinking about doing some brick work soon, and they have survived a couple near misses while tensioning my windsufer downhaul. I guess as long as I pretend I'm a lefty, I stay ok. So now the thumb and three fingers are looking good. I would like to engage the ring finger more, but usually only use this for a four string chord pluck. When I break my middle nail, I do enjoy playing with thumb and fore-finger though. Love watching two finger players!!
For me nutrition has a lot to do with the quality and strength of the nails. I take a good multiple vitamin for calcium and vitamin D, as well as suplemental vitamin E caps. The nails grow quicker than they wear with steel strings, and are strong and flexible enough for daily abuse. The index nail is worn at an angle, so it's a close race. Using light strings helps with longevity .... but the second string sounds pretty wanky wen tuned down into C Mauna Loa. Thinking of trying a .017 for this, such a nice tuning.
My favorite playing position is plopped down and semi-reclined in my overstuffed easy chair, with legs crossed while resting on the stuffed foot thing. My arms are sort of wedged between the chair arms, insuring lack of mobility. The guitar is sort of facing the ceiling, insuring that my picking hand is positioned at an odd angle. Guess this is why I have this persistent wrist pain (laughing). And my left hand usually supports the neck, so fret mobility suffers unless I squeeze hard with my right arm on the bout. Infrequently, on the right chair arm I may have music somehow propped up .. and usually falling over, so it's a good reason to practice by ear. To the left is the puter, with keyboard and mouse on the left arm for Emails and chatting on ICQ with friends and family .. as I sort-of play. Tv is often on to add to the chaos. I know, all of this is terrible, but if I can play like this then when hunched over in proper position ... playing is easy.
My beach guitar suffered a tragic death, with chronic neck warp. I gave it a solemn viking funeral ... such pleasure this sick one wen give me, so it deserved the high honors. This was so funny!! I soaked em with lighter fluid, torched it and floated it out into the bay. It burned down to the waterline crackling, poor ting. Now I use a La Patrie Presentation classical for knocking around. This is interesting because I prefer the steel strings, and adjusting to the nut width takes a few minutes. But it has a nice sound this and a wide playing field. The night beach air is so humid that you if you listen carefully you can hear it groaning in protest. Sometimes it might get dewy!!! Oh no!! Maybe I should get a rainsong ... wouldn't That be something .... but so expensive .... pipe dream. I'm always looking for something cheap, with good playability and access to the 15th fret, to be sacrificed to the elements.
Sorry I strayed from the topic. About the use of fingers, I've learned from many players admired. Ozzie is a wonderful teacher and a great argument for mega-fingers.
aloha |
|
|
|
Stacey
Lokahi
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 01:30:39 AM
|
Aloha everyone!
David, I enjoyed reading about the 'viking funeral' for your dear departed beach guitar. So sorry it had to go, but what an awesome sendoff!
Back on the finger subject, I tend to play with my thumb, index and middle fingers, but am working on getting the other 2 involved. As for fingernails, I have bitten my nails since I had teeth to bite them with, heh heh, but I'm still able to get good sound with my calloused finger tips.
Aloha, Stacey
|
|
|
|
jlsulle
Lokahi
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 1:55:52 PM
|
| With my limited skills I want all the fingers that work to be helping out. I vote for three fingers and a thumb doing the job. The Rainsong is a wonderful and durable geetar and it really doesn't care how many fingers you use sooooo Jus prezz Sulle' |
|
|
|
cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 3:57:13 PM
|
quote:
quote:
My favorite playing position is plopped...music somehow propped up...
I knew I wasn't alone! Excellent description David! However, I did invest in a music stand that I've wedged between a book case and my favorite recliner.
Ha! The only reason I started using a music stand was because I got tired of trying to keep my guitar still enough so the music would stay propped up on the bottom of the guitar top (leaning against my knees) without falling down behind the guitar. It was either that or limit myself to the top half of each page of music I played! |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 10/25/2002 4:00:12 PM |
|
|
|
David
Akahai
92 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 9:45:08 PM
|
jwn, I'm so sorry. I ...I didn't know. You have been victimized by circumstance and cursed with a left-handed nature. Some defect at birth perhaps beyond your control, and I have been callous in assuming that were we all with born properly functional right hands. Sorry! But some of the people who I admire most have learned how to deal with and overcome handicaps greater than yours. So be of stout heart!! And it's also my belief that we learn humility through our suffering ...... well, perhaps you might have to suffer more for your craft, and for the wisdom.
About nails .... I once broke a nail on the steering wheel on the way to a ki ho'alu workshop. It was my middle nail, looking so sad and floppy. Tink I wen get bachi for making a rude sign at some kid who almost killed me with a high speed zig-zag. It's been a long time now, and no more rude signs!!!! But this nail ... driving along, looking at my nail before I was to receive this important event ... this shock feeling. What should I do!! Should I let it flop? Find some crazy glue? Rip it off? Like a man I tore it off raggedly and went into the lesson, looking unconfident and sheepish. You see jwn, you are not the only one who know suffering!!! I did save the end piece though for a few days .... my precioussssssss. I once had a tooth knocked out and I saved this as well. Why? I don't really know, but guess cause it's part of me! So this event brought me back to thumb and forefinger playing, but I felt crippled. Luckily this workshop didn't have a "let's see what you got" event.
About nutrition and nails ... this is something I've experimented with and paid attention to. It's true that nails are nothing more than dead keratin, but they do have a formative stage and reflect health. Now my nails don't even have those white things ..... and are now 27" long. Yes .... no kidding!!! Right now I'm absent-mindedly picking my guitar resting in it's stand a couple feet away. So you see why I must pretend why I'm left handed. My dog is 13 years old with no moah teeths, but he's always attacking the nails .. he doesn't remember that cruel trip to the vet and tries to kill them with his savage gums.
About gardening and nails? What could be better than four little shovels working for you?
Music stand. I invented one that works pretty well by adjoining a couple wire coat hangers together and wrapping this around my neck. It sticks out about 15", and if you stay really still then the music does not fly. It's good for maybe a verse, and then I must yank it off ..... then it looks junk ... like a wire mess on the floor.
And the dog ate the tabs? Oh sorry ... more suffering for you. Nice lil doogy .. is he black? Mouth ztarting to water. I know a manapua man who would like to adopt him!
About my sensitivity and compassion ... yes I agree. And this poor guitar had such humble roots too. It was a Kay Starter Series classical guitar which was knocking around in my friend's basement. So wretched with it's thick coats of lacquer .. shiney humble. He offered it to me, and of course I took it. The frets were so worn on the 4th and 5th frets around the first string that you had to nail this just right or get a horrible buzz or a buzzz/zzzzt. I took this as a challenge, and really enjoyed playing this monster, and Really enjoyed loaning it out! But without a truss rod, it was not prepared for the hard times it would see in my hands. I was truly sorry to see this guitar go. I even though about mounting it on my wall, but it was too disgusting with it's popped strings ... it had to be put to rest. Too bad, it never got to be refretted, poor thing.
I'm something of a reverse guitar-snob. I love seeing ppl playing more ordinary instruments well ... and have resisted buying guitars with ornamentation .... not that I have not admired inlays and rosettes and teetered on the brink. I have resisted this evil!!!!! Perhaps one day I'll be drawn to the other side, this strange world of high end guitars and custom jobs. The Larrivee California Edition, with a mop palm tree on the headstock, nice rosette, and blue binding ..... but NO!!! Such an evil guitar this. And there are guitars in the $3000 range tried in stores that sound so lovely .... there was a Taylor 814ce that sounded wonderful .. but so malevolent!! Ha, I tried a humble Fender acoustic that sounded and played great for cheap .... but somebody bought it when I went back. Now that might have been a score!!!!! All the other Fenders sounded questionable. I wonder if one day this shopper might be boasting of his aged tonewood and subtle overtones eminating from this vintage fender.
No offense to you guitar collecters out there!! K then, now I hide. |
|
|
|
cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2002 : 6:51:24 PM
|
quote:
Yeah... da dog ate my tabs!
Hey, have you considered gluing the music to his back and having him lay next to you while you're playing? |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
