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Pua Kai
Ha`aha`a
USA
1007 Posts |
 Posted - 01/27/2007 : 07:04:15 AM
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Hi Mike,
I too like the drop-C tuning. But Sarah's comment about retraining your thumb is very pertinant. If you're used to standard tuning, you are very used to the 5 string as base to the I and IV chords and the 6th string as base to the V7 chord. That's the way it is in taropatch, but with drop-C, where you used the 6th string as the bass for C, and the 5th string as base for G7, it fried my brain. Kevin Brown used that tuning for Ka Manu at the beginner class on Moloka'i a couple years ago and as a very new beginner, it hung me up so badly I kinda missed everything else.... but that's an old brain trying to work with short term memory. But now, I really like the drop C and it does give you a great other range for singing.
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Rich_Smith
Lokahi
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2007 : 10:08:42 AM
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| What's the case for using standard tuning as some do? |
Rich Smith |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2007 : 11:50:33 AM
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Nothing wrong with standard tuning or "tight key"  I used to play every Sunday in "tight key" 'cause it confused the rest of the worship team when I didn't.
The "beauty" of slack key tunings is the different tones and subtones created when strings you are not plucking make a sound as sympathetic vibration takes hold. Also many of the techniques used to produce say, a turnaround, or the ins/outs (walking parallel thirds/sixths) are more difficult to do in "tight key".
By the way, you can play "Blackbird" by the Beatles in TaroPatch very easily.
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Mike,
I second  or third  or fourth  what Sarah and Mark said. My problem is I hear a song I really like (for example, Keola's arrangement of Bali Hai and Strangers in Paradise Medley) and struggle to figure out how to play it in a tuning I have not yet mastered and there is no tablature for it.
Buy Mark's new Old Time Slack Key Book and CD, find the song that speaks to you the most, then put your guitar in that tuning and --- jus' press. |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2007 : 05:41:37 AM
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Rich,
In my humble opinion, because I don't play anything in standard tuning, I would say that the case for standard tuning is A) if that's the tuning you already know best and B) if you are in a situation where your fretting is cueing other players and they can't "read" slack key fingering.
Otherwise, I think the fact that standard tuning requires much more fret-work is a downside for two reasons. First, it's more work for the fingers and as Mika'ele pointed out, some basic vamp figures are harder to do, and second, one of the beauties of the slack key sound is the resonance of an open string and the mingling, and lingering, of open string resonances. To my ear, an open D, say, is more resonant than a fretted D, and so on. So there is an important tonal difference, I think. Furthermore, an open note can continue to resonate while your fingers move on to doing something else, instead of continuing to hold a fret to maintain that pitch.
However, that said, I do know that some very accomplished slack key players have played in standard and I haven't noticed -- so I think it depends also on the particular piece played, as well as the player.
How's that for muddying the waters...
aloha,
Sarah |
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javeiro
Lokahi
USA
459 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2007 : 07:29:54 AM
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| Mika ele and Sarah make some good points, especially about resonance and sympathetic vibrations in open tunings. I learned to play in standard tuning way before I learned slack key so I sometimes accompany others in standard. And similarly to what both Mika ele and Sarah pointed out, (and to my ears at least) the more open strings a chord has, the better I like its sound. Therefore whenever I do accompany in standard tuning, I've almost unconciously taken to using chords with open strings as much as possible. |
Aloha,
John A. |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2007 : 09:19:49 AM
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Standard tuning became the standard because it works well for many different types of music. The most obvious benefits are in transposition and harmony -- you can play any chord or scale, in any key, in bunches of positions.
You can play complex harmonic music far easier than one would with open tunings (quick, try to play the changes to "All the Things you Are" in Taropatch, with the correct bass notes. Or "Waikiki," for that matter. But that one's easier cuz it mostly stays in one key.)
quote:
By the way, you can play "Blackbird" by the Beatles in TaroPatch very easily.
Which is how most people play it. Though I seem to remember reading somewhere that Paul played it in standard.
I agree slack key makes the guitar sound like magic. But standard has its advantages and a sensitive player can make it sound as sweet. Once you get past learning basic chords, it can be easier than slack, believe it or not. Why? Because you don't have to relearn the neck every time you change keys, for one thing.
And, to muddy the waters even further, Kevin Brown plays exclusively in slack; and I've sat in with him while he blew through some intensely complex changes in keys not even remotely related to where he was tuned.
Like I said somewhere along the way, it's about the music, not the tuning. Don't get hung up on one tuning or another. Play what's in your heart.
cheers,
M
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2007 : 10:21:50 AM
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| The main thing to remember about different tunings is that they are different. You have to learn the new fingerings and positions. You can observe corespondencies and similarities, but each tuning is it's own "instrument", and time and effort must be expended. It's also fun to scare them that's uninitiated to open tunings. |
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mike2jb
Lokahi
USA
213 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2007 : 10:40:27 AM
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Nancy, Sarah, Mark, et. al--
OK, I did try a few of these alternate tunings and, yeah, the thumb feels very different in, for example, Drop C or in D major, when I'm used to the Taro Patch bass pattern.
That said, I *really* like the sound and feel of that lowest bass note being the tonic, as opposed to the fifth-string G, as in Taro Patch. |
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Pua Kai
Ha`aha`a
USA
1007 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2007 : 2:31:08 PM
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Aloha,
Chunky Monkey, Mary and I went to the Makaha Sons concert yesterday and sat in the front row....
Both Jerome and Moon play in standard tuning. Jerome is just amazing - he has great big fingers, an Ovation 12-string, and plays chimes all over the place, and does a lot of picking. The music is SO sweet! and so are the voices and the whole performance was ono.... They are taping today for release before Christmas. They didn't bring any CDs to the show, only DVD - I hope this isn't the wave of the future, mostly because they cost twice. I'll have to see if they work in my car CD player to at least get the music.
So - not bad to stick with standard tuning if you're really good already.
jus' pres' |
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Doug Fitch
Akahai
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2007 : 11:37:30 PM
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Different strokes... of course. Nonetheless (and for what its worth), I'm glad I was taught Drop C as my 2nd tuning because it opened up a lot of other possibilities. Having said this, please bear in mind that free advice is often worth what you paid for it! Take care and have fun.
Sincerely, Doug |
Doug Fitch
fitchdoug @ yahoo.com
www.dougfitchmusic.com
http://youtube.com/user/dougfitchmusic |
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Puna
Lokahi
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2007 : 07:19:02 AM
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At a workshop, Dennis Kamakahi said that he often composes in standard tuning, and then later changes it to a slacked tuning.
At jam sessions, I'll often go to standard, because my fingers know where to go while my brain is thinking of something else...singing/remembering the words, or trying to figure out what key the 'uke players changed the song to when I wasn't paying attention.
(However, if you are in standard and Mark is across from you in Taropatch and Kory is next to him in some other tuning, it doesn't do me any good to look at their chord patterns to try to figure out the key! So I watched the 'ukes.) |
Puna |
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