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mike2jb
Lokahi
USA
213 Posts |
 Posted - 01/30/2007 : 06:08:20 AM
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Mark and Jeff-
Interesting to hear about slightly changing the pitch of some strings if you change the guitar's tuning. It seems to me that in Taro Patch I'm always fiddling with the B string. My current project is "Moe `Uhane" from Hanson's book, in which it seems that nearly every measure features a "D" on the open top string followed immediately by the same note on the fretted second string. A slight difference in the two is very distracting in this song, maybe not so much in others.
So I'm wondering (since you mention flatting that B string when changing to TP from some other tuning) if you tweak the string sometimes depending on the specific song, as well.
-Mike |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2007 : 07:17:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mike2jb
Mark and Jeff-
Interesting to hear about slightly changing the pitch of some strings if you change the guitar's tuning. It seems to me that in Taro Patch I'm always fiddling with the B string. My current project is "Moe `Uhane" from Hanson's book, in which it seems that nearly every measure features a "D" on the open top string followed immediately by the same note on the fretted second string. A slight difference in the two is very distracting in this song, maybe not so much in others.
So I'm wondering (since you mention flatting that B string when changing to TP from some other tuning) if you tweak the string sometimes depending on the specific song, as well.
-Mike
Even in standard tuning, the B string is the most difficult to get right, because of its pitch, string length, string diameter, etc. Since each string doesnt have an individual bridge, compromises have to be made, and the B string suffers most. There are compensated bridges out there, but messing around (I was going to say "fiddling" but that might lead people to use a bow  ) with the string until a satisfactory compromise is reached is the usual solution. I play a series of chords, adjusting the string until each sounds "right" to my ear. For the steel guitar, I use harmonics after use of a tuner to temper the tuning. There are tuning lists for pedal steels which temper them - only the E's on the E7th neck are at A440; the rest are below, which is what the harmonics give you. Since the lap steel involves bar slants, that kind of tempering doesn't work as well. |
keaka |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2007 : 08:33:27 AM
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Well that's a lot more than I planned on saying which was bascially "sorry Mark."
Why, of all the insultin', low down, rotten, guttersnipe things I've been called in my life, "Sorry Mark" certainly has to be the .... oh, wait. You weren't calling me names? Never mind. 
(The preceeding was a joke predicated on the near universal misunderstanding of written communication on on-line forums. I am not now, nor ever have been, mad. OK, I have been mad before. But not about this.
Lance, no need for apologise. I didn't take your comments as harsh, I just wanted to point out to those reading this thread that we'd basically said the same thing.)
RE: Tempering one's tuning. It is a constant thing. All kinds of factors might cause something to sound out of tune: where you are playing on the neck, where the string in question falls within a chord, humidity, your guitar's action, how long it's been since you last tweaked the tuning, how well you can hear the difference, a butterfly flapping its wings in Tibet.
And, maybe the most important, how much you care.
I'm serious about this last one. When I was in the studio biz, I couldn't care less if a vocalist (or fiddler, or whatever) was slightly out of tune if the emotion came through.
At some point, you realize that tuning is preference, not science. Which is why claims of "absolute pitch" always make be wonder: "absolute" compared to what? A440? A442-common in Japan and in many orchestras? Baroque tuning? 1960's Irish fiddle tuning? (Yes, it was different, particularly in the thirds and sevenths).
Blues? Vocal or instrumental? What era? What locale? Who???
Maqam?
Pelog? OK, which village?
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Since the lap steel involves bar slants, that kind of tempering doesn't work as well.
Boy howdy! After hearing Kaliko playing through some excercises, Keola turned to Fred Lunt and said, "I'm renaming your class "Dare to suck!"
Happy tuning.
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Edited by - Mark on 01/30/2007 08:40:32 AM |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2007 : 07:47:47 AM
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Mike
Since you mentioned "Moe 'Uhane", I just wanted to pass this along to you. Hansons book recommends dragging a finger up the strings for the triplet runs. Try a three finger roll w/thumb accent (4 fingers- four notes). After listening to Chillingworth again, I decided to try it with a roll and like it better. Maybe you will too.
Bob |
Bob |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2007 : 1:46:03 PM
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Tuning, along with string noise, is part of the deal. I've just learned to enjoy it. When others are tuning, it gives me valuable talk story time and also time to slurp a beverage. When I tune, they take on the aforementioned activities.
I remember seeing a 2-sided harpsichord on TV once. One side was for playing in "C" and the other was tempered to play in all keys. Bagpipes aren't tempered, thus when accordions play with them, the choice for the box is a "wet" tuning to blend better with the pipes. We all learn to compensate. Jus' press. |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2007 : 1:49:50 PM
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quote:
Bagpipes aren't tempered, thus when accordions play with them,
Yikes - doesn't that Kill-0n-Contact !?  
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 02/08/2007 1:51:25 PM |
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javeiro
Lokahi
USA
459 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2007 : 2:03:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Haole_Boy
Mike
Since you mentioned "Moe 'Uhane", I just wanted to pass this along to you. Hansons book recommends dragging a finger up the strings for the triplet runs. Try a three finger roll w/thumb accent (4 fingers- four notes). After listening to Chillingworth again, I decided to try it with a roll and like it better. Maybe you will too.
Bob
I'm not sure what you mean by a "three finger roll". Is it three fingers (three notes) in quick succession with the thumb making the fourth note of each triplet? |
Aloha,
John A. |
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Fingerpickin
Lokahi
117 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2007 : 3:15:48 PM
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I'm not sure what you mean by a "three finger roll". Is it three fingers (three notes) in quick succession with the thumb making the fourth note of each triplet
Right on, John. Sonny used this technique a lot, according to Ozzie, and I am just beginning to get this down (it's not hard to do , but it IS hard to do well!)
The basic technique is to use your index, middle and ring fingers to play the three notes using an *upward* pluck, then use your thumb for the 4th note using a *downward* pluck. This really has a very, very cool sound to it when done correctly.
You can also upstrum a chord, then hit the last (lowest) note of the chord using the thumb downstroke, sounds cool as well!
Good luck, this technique (for me at least) has required a LOT of practice!
-Lance |
"Hey Lance, try watch." -Ozzie |
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javeiro
Lokahi
USA
459 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2007 : 5:06:43 PM
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| Thanks, Lance. I just read my own words quoted in your post and noticed that I said "triplet" and then mentioned the fourth note.......I guess I should have said quadruplet! |
Aloha,
John A. |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2007 : 03:23:53 AM
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Yes, I knew it was not a triplet but it does have a triplet sound and feel. I used the term as a way to descibe the passage--I think Hanson used it too. As long as you knew what passage I was talking about then it was an workable (but incorrect) description.
I can see how it would be seen as curious choice of words.
The finger drag sounds whispy to me. My profile has a link where I have the song posted if you want to hear what I mean. I plan on re-doing the song with a roll sometime soon.
Aloha
Bob |
Bob |
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