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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
 Posted - 02/20/2007 : 09:35:00 AM
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quote:
even Muddy Waters was borderline traditional the last part of his career.
Ah, but which tradition? (Sorry, as a fellow folkie and mountain dulcimer player I just had to rattle your cage. Please don't take it personally.)
Arguably the first "traditional" recordings were made in the 1920s. Within 10 years country, folk, blues... and yes, Hawaiian, artists were using electric instruments, drums, etc. Wouldn't nearly 80 years of continual musical practice define a "tradition?"
In my experience, what most people mean when they say "traditional" can best be summed up as "the good old music that I like best, before those dang kids got a hold of it..."
I'd love to know what everyone means when they use the term in regards to Hawaiian music.
Acoustic? Harmony? Falsetto??? Steel or no steel?? Do we include all the cover songs you hear on everyone's CDs?? Hapa haole??? Or just Hawaiian language?? Would that leave out "Aloha `Oe" & "Adios Ke Aloha??"
And what time period? Before Bob Marley?? Pre-1970's? Pre-war?? Pre-20th century? Pre-contact??? Pre-Tahiti????
The Grammy debate is but another way of asking these questions. It is a healthy process and I am learning a lot from it. Keep it up!
BTW: I had the great fortune to attend the show at the Ritz a couple days after the awards last week. George passed his medal through the crowd -- I can tell you that's the closest I'll ever get to a Grammy!
Congratulations to everyone who added their love and artistry to that CD. Dennis, you are absolutely right. You earned that award. In spades, my friend.
As for the future??? "Que Sera, Sera." To quote another one of those non-English language hits.
Yours for fun,
Mark
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2007 : 10:48:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by RJS
Paul, the process for nomination is like this:
Any artist or their label submits the album/song with the suggested category. If it matches the entrance criterea and the category criterea it gets put on the preliminary ballot. All NARAS members can vote for the prelims, although the number of categories in which you can vote is limited. On the preliminary ballot you can choose 5 or 6 (I always forget) albums/songs. The bean counters prepare the final ballot - each category is narrowed down to 5 or 6 "finalists." Members vote for only 1 finalist in each category that they vote, again every one can vote for the "biggies," e.g. album of the years, etc., and there is some limitation as to the number of other categories in which you can vote.
In sum, as a NARAS member, you or your label can "enter you," NARAS members vote in a two step process.
FYI, HARA process is basically similar, but you vote for almost all of the categories.
Thanks, Raymond - I was going to chime in on this, and you got the information right. A couple points I would like to add: as Raymond noted, any submission has to meet eligibility criteria (released during the eligibility period, appropriate for the category.) Beyond that, the committee reviewing submissions makes NO judgement calls regarding artistic merit or technical quality.
On the ballots, in addition to the "big four" awards (Album/Record/Song of the Year & Best New Artist), voters can choose to vote in up to nine of the present 31 fields on the preliminary ballot, and eight on the final. You pick five of the eligible releases on the preliminary ballot, and one from the five nominees on the final.
Reading this discussion, as well as many others, has been helpful to me in assembling an article that will be published in the March issue of the Northwest Hawai`i Times newspaper (available throughout the Pacific NW); the story will be available online in early April (I'll update you with a link at that time.) You can read past reviews and other articles concerning previous Grammy winners at www.northwesthawaiitimes.com/musichome.htm
Thanks especially to the musicians who have shared their perspectives with us here - hard to argue with those who are in the middle of it all every day.
=Gregg=
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2007 : 12:55:20 PM
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WOW
Reading this topic is kinda like a kanikapila with the big boys.
Ya just gotta sit back and read . . . (vice listen)
Mahalo Nui Loa to all the "slack key professionals" that have chimed in. Us amateurs have supported you by purchasing your music, attending your concerts and workshops, and trying to imitate what we enjoy and revere as nahenahe music.
I for one have both of the Grammy CDs and throughly enjoy listening to them!
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E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2007 : 1:29:00 PM
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| I didn't think to mention this last night, but it seems to relate (sort of) to the topic at hand: This month in Banjo Newsletter, a reader wrote in to complain about "All This Old-Time/ Clawhammer" coverage. Seems he only wants to read about 3 finger Bluegrass style playing, and threatened not to renew his subscription. The editor pointed out the # of pages dedicated to 3 finger was way above the clawhammer coverage, and told him they hoped he would reconsider, but had no plans to change their content. As a dedicated 'Clawhammerist', I would like to see more of my style featured, but I read it cover to cover. Old Time gets no radio time, no grammy, and most uninformed people confuse it with Bluegrass. It's important not to let a part of heritage disappear, and old time is highly endangered.This relates to why Wanda & I went to the hula workshop last weekend. As old time songs were sped up(Bluegrassed)the dances were lost. You just can't get the steps in at that speed. I'm glad there are dedicated people in hula who aren't allowing that to happen. There's room for modern and ancient style hula, as there's room for Old Time and Bluegrass. |
Edited by - rendesvous1840 on 02/21/2007 12:02:09 PM |
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naukilo
Lokahi
USA
103 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2007 : 2:26:35 PM
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Wow Paul C,
Now I'm getting even more curious. I better start reading up on that.
Aloha,
Dennis
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2007 : 3:28:06 PM
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I play a lot of old time music with members of the Old Time Fiddlers. Those of us who play old time make sure everyone knows we're NOT bluegrass.
Jesse Tinsley |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2007 : 4:13:22 PM
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| Mark, I think you must know me better than I realized, having never met. When I'm wrong I'm wrong, but when I'm right, I'm insufferable.(and amazed)I stand on what I said yesterday:it's all good. We have rock, folk, jazz, big band, Carribbean, Italian, and lots of other stuff at our house. Bye the way, Buckeye Dulcimer Festival is March 7-11, in Ashley, Ohio. It's been a long winter with no festivals, and not much jamming. Up here, we're ripe for some pickin'. I hope to see you there. The 'Appalachian Ukulele' sounds good on Hawai'ian music, even if it ain't traditional.Lots of dulcimers, guitars, Banjo's, mandolins, tin whistles, and even some more rare stuff turns up. Usually at least one Hurdy-Gurdy. |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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Darin
Lokahi
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2007 : 10:52:26 AM
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Hi folks,
Great topic. As someone recently transplanted back to Hawaii from the mainland, I find it fascinating that the market for traditional Hawaiian Music is so much stronger on the mainland. I hope in the coming years that we will be able to boost Hawaiian music in Hawaii! |
Darin
http://www.hawaiiguitar.com/ |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2007 : 11:01:40 AM
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I hope in the coming years that we will be able to boost Hawaiian music in Hawaii!
Which is exactly what George and the "Slack Key Concert Series" folks are trying to do!
Of course, they are not the only ones and everyone needs the kokua of others to make it happen.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 02/21/2007 11:02:25 AM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2007 : 12:05:56 PM
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Yes, we hope so, Lawrence. And we do what we can to help. But, I am not so hopeful. Not because I am naturally pessimistic, but I think the demographics are against Hawai`i. (I wish Chunk would do a demographic analysis of the Islands - he knows how to tell us if I am right or wrong.) Where do all the self-identified Hawaiians live? Mostly on the mainland, really. There has been this exodus for decades, because of jobs and opportunities. Hawaiian economics have been messed up for so many decades. And it is getting worse and worse. On the boat coming back to Maui from Moloka`i last Feb, we talked to a local woman who said that 1 bedroom simple unfancy condos in Kaunakakai were going for $350,000. I think I saw that the median on Maui was $450,000. How can a working or middle class family afford that, or even the other prices? There were about 40,000 building permits in line for permission according to the local Maui paper. What can they work at? Tourist industry (including entertainment) and construction, right? So, the flow is to the mainland. The only flow to Hawai`i that I know about is wealthy haole.
The same thing has happened in the western Caribbean. Poor people are migrating "up-island" to the USVI and BVI, displacing native VI people to Fla and other places in the south, and the white people in the boating business are moving south to more pristine islands. Rich mainlanders are building extraordinary villas, coating the once pristine volcanic hills and covering the reefs with construction dirt and debris. St. Thomas is a pit, and the National Park is not saving St. John.
Paradise is being paved.
...Reid |
Edited by - Reid on 02/21/2007 12:09:14 PM |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2007 : 3:48:47 PM
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"...to boost Hawaiian music in Hawaii!"
"Which is exactly what George and the "Slack Key Concert Series" folks are trying to do!"
The Maui concert series is a wonderful setting for Hawaiian music. I've seen three different shows there. But at $35-40 a seat in the custom theater at the Ritz Carlton, I'm not sure it's bringing in "da kanaka off da shtreet." But it all helps.
I would hope that informal kanikapila increase, too, to let the local people, who all struggle to make ends meet, find their musical roots. This happens everyday on the mainland where homesick Hawaiians pick up the uke or slack key guitar, never having played it before.
Plus, the more jams like Waihe'e that happen, the more opportunities for us visitors to jam with local people.
Jesse Tinsley |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2007 : 4:57:35 PM
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Jesse, another downer from me - I am sorry, but true story, and it means to me that "da kanaka off da shtreet" doesn't exist.
10-12 years ago, Kevin tells us about a *free* benefit concert at Christ The King Church School in Kahului. So, we go early, and there are choke people eating the 2 scoop rice, teri chicken plate dinner; there are choke people flipping through the used clothes on the jumble sales tables.
Then the music starts on the stage. First up is Keoki Kahumoku and his kids (one of which was Garret Probst- we talked to him and his mom last year and they remember it). Then it is is Kevin and Ikaika and Ka`ena doing a lot of wonderful things. Headliner is Dennis Pavao (his daughter was a student there). Dennis Pavao, for gosh sake, with his upside-down left handed guitar. Who is watching and listening? Me and Sarah and Billy Pellazar and Joleen and Joleen's dad (maybe 2 or 3 other people), on a little grass mound. The night is clear, the west Maui mountains are rising behind the stage. The music is enchanting. Everybody else is milling around, looking for more clothing and more cheap food. Nobody cared about the music! Couldn't get over it, and I can see it in my mind's eye like it was yesterday.
It all boils down to economics and cultural destruction.
Sorry.
...Reid |
Edited by - Reid on 02/21/2007 4:58:27 PM |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2007 : 5:52:44 PM
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The light in the tunnel isn't always an oncoming train. Check out www.gardenislandarts.org, and look for the E Kanikapila Kakou page. One night a week for several weeks in the spring a featured artist teaches a few songs to anybody who shows up with a guitar or uke, and a cocert/jam erupts. If I can just get to Kaua'i at the right time, you bet I'll be there.
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"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
Edited by - rendesvous1840 on 02/21/2007 5:54:24 PM |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2007 : 6:20:16 PM
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I think we're talking about the same thing, Reid. When local people regain their appreciation of their musical heritage, then there will be a new awakening in informal music. No one in my Hawaiian family plays music either. But maybe someday.
Jesse Tinsley |
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Pua Kai
Ha`aha`a
USA
1007 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2007 : 06:40:35 AM
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Hi Reid,
Not all folks embrace music. And as you well know, not very many anywhere enjoy slack key until they listen to it, and really hear it. It sounds like you were at a local fund raiser for a church school. It was really nice for you that the music was there. And I'd guess that the music kept folks there a bit longer, spending money which I'm guessing was the purpose of the event. Please don't be disappointed that everyone else doesn't see the world through your music-colored glasses.
The locals don't have the money to go to the concerts, but enjoy the events like the slack key festival, and especially the free concerts at the senior center like the ones George Kahumoku gives. The "music on the back porch" is only a tradition within the musical families. Like here, the grammar schools introduce students to music. Some become interested and others don't. Like Jessie, no one in my family over there is avidly interested in the Hawaiian music, though my fascination with it came from a wake of sorts in Lanai City when the wife of the cousin we were staying with played along with local kanes most of the night out by the 1/2 50-gal drum barbecue. I loved it, but even there, most of the folks were inside talking story, cleaning up, tending to the youngsters. Most had come in from the other islands so it was a time of catch-up.
Here in SoCal where we do have a fair amount of music, and certainly a lot of Hawaiians, we see pretty much the same folks at all the events. We're hard-core supporters, as are you and the others here in the taropatch.
aloha,
nancy |
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