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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
 Posted - 02/22/2007 : 08:33:21 AM
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quote:
The 'Appalachian Ukulele' sounds good on Hawai'ian music, even if it ain't traditional.
Actually, it is traditional. At least in the sense that lots people played it back in the early days. A couple of folks did a nice story about it for the "Old Time Herald" some time back. Just because none of the revivalists didn't play it in the 60s and 70s doesn't mean it didn't exist.
And yes, there were fiddle, banjo, mandolin and autoharp traditions in Hawaii years ago. All sadly forgotten, though you will still hear an isolated trace every now and then.
And I don't mean the three-finger bluegrass style of banjo either. Nor frailing. Leilehua Yuen has ressurected a little of her grandfather's playing - very chordal, and unlike anything I'd heard on the mainland.
All of which again begs the question "Traditional? When???"
RE: the frailling vs three finger debate in Banjo Newsletter-- these are but two of numerous old banjo styles, most of which are long gone. Leonard Coulson, of Intermountain Guitar and Banjo, calls the fancy drop-thumb melodic playing so many people play now "college style banjo." 'Bout sums it up.
And, just in case anyone wonders why the heck we're talking about banjo in a slack key forum -- the elusive Mr. D, Donley Smith, is a fine banjoist and a fine slack key player. He's been known to drop in slack key turnarounds in his old time band, much to the chagrin of the fiddler.
Mark
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2007 : 08:52:15 AM
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I wonder how much we more-or-less urban-middle-class folk romanticize the place of traditional music (or storytelling or quilting or insert-your-favorite-folk-art-here) in the lives of non-urban-working-class folks. I think of the picture a lot of us in the north had, back in the folk-scare days, of the social and artistic lives of farmers and small-town people in the south, whether black and white. On the one hand, there was all that dance and social music provided by part-time players and the fact that before radio and universal access to recordings, music was home-made and local. But how many families back then were (like mine, though we're Yankee blue-collar) not particularly musical--no piano in the parlor or guitar or fiddle under the bed, no tradition of home-made music. Why should I assume that other cultures have radically different distributions of interest and talent--unless said culture really does privilege music by making it central to religious practice or (in fully oral cultures) preservation of history and such? If large numbers of contemporary Hawaiians don't show much enthusiasm for tradtional music, it's not much different from what has become of "old time" (polka to the rest of the world) dance culture in Minnesota and Wisconsin or contradancing in New England: both are niche enthusiasms, the former the preserve of geezers and the latter largely (I suspect) of middle-class urbanites. I suspect that pre-mass-media traditions always wind up as niche enthusiasms, supported largely by people from outside the traditions and/or generation-skipped inheritors (grandpa or great-grandpa played this), while the majority of the population from which the traditions arose turns to other amusements and expressions of identity. Compare the audience even for a fairly healthy tradition such as bluegrass to that for NASCAR in the south. But enough amateur anthropology from the hack journalist--
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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2007 : 09:47:05 AM
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Mahalo Mark and Russell for your well written perspectives.
Music, of course, is always evolving. Regarding the banjo, I'll wager that in another generation or two the "melodic/chromatic" music brought to us by Bill Keith, Bela Fleck, Tony Trischka, Larry McNeely, Pat Cloud and Pete Wernick will be considered mainstream, if not traditional urban banjo.
Larry |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2007 : 12:29:40 PM
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Russell,
You are on to something, but as a person who actually was an anthropologist/archaeologist for a decade (until I realized there was no future in it as a science and went back to being a computernik/mathematician), I can tell you that there are exceptions to everything and there is no way to predict anything - or even "postdict" either. It is just all "natural history" and everything is anecdotal and arguable. You are quite right in the case of jazz, for instance, which has become almost the exclusive province of the urban white upper middle class, and is otherwise dying out. Winton Marsalis and others have been very vocal about that. There are more examples, too. But, on the other hand (you have warts - to quote Jackie Mason) certain sorts of mountainy music has resurfaced in certain places in Appalachia - a friend of mine is a friend of Wayne Henderson (Clapton's Guitar) and wherever Wayne is there is old-timey stuff, and nobody would call him and his friends and neighbors middle class or urbanites.
As for music making in the home, Sarah's family is a perfect example of vocal and instrumental music being made as entertainment in the home. Just about every one of her family sang and played one instrument or another, at home. I had to be a spectator, because I couldn't contribute much. And they mostly still do.
My family was one of serious listeners, although I was forced to attempt the violin at age 5. We were the poorest of the poor, too. Gramp pushed fruits and vgetables in a pushcart and I helped as a kid. My father was a steel worker and later bought a small liquor store. Sunday was opera day; every day was Dixieland and Chicago style (Sidney Bechet, especially)jazz day on shellac 78s. From the age of 3 I was enrolled in a monthly record program with songs by the Weavers, and that whole bunch. I saw streaky b&w movies of Leadbelly before I entered grammar school, and I attended children's concerts weekly at Yale. As a teenager, we always sang songs at friends' houses (lots of Stephen Foster stuff and Folkie things) and I even made an abortive attempt to be a jazz trumpeter, because a buddy was a good jazz saxophonist. I failed utterly, but the noise was in his house :-).
Now, of course, music reigns, and we have guitar picking parties with friends in our house, and theirs, too, with styles all over the place and lots of really good originals.
Next door, the mom and her daughters are continually playing piano together and up the street a few houses is a pro clarinetist and his friend and students.
So, these are a few anecdotes for you.
...Reid |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2007 : 4:49:23 PM
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| Evolution in music is inevitable; it remains for those who care to keep the old stuff alive. It's just as true in music as in crafts or Grandma's favorite recipe. As we learn ,and add bits of Gabby's playing to the bits of what we picked up from Stephen Stills and Dave Guard,the music changes. B.B. King, Chuck Berry, and Chet Atkins all listed Charlie Christian as an influence. He died of TB at about 24 years of age. The little recording he did was with Benny Goodman's Orchestra. None of them sound much alike. My own playing is full of my mistakes. And what I attempted to put in. Some pieces got there more intact than others.(Good thing nobody paid for my music. Good thing I have a job.) |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
Edited by - rendesvous1840 on 02/23/2007 4:34:00 PM |
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naukilo
Lokahi
USA
103 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2007 : 11:07:16 PM
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In response to several points that have been brought out regarding Slack Key Music.
First of all, Slack Key Music has a lineage similar to what the hula has except not as ancient. It is the FIRST true endemic Hawaiian folk music derived from the first "Paniolos" or cowboys taught by Mexican vaqueros who brought the first guitars to Hawaii in the early 1840s and utilizes both guitar playing and vocalizations. It reflects the Paniolo lifestyle of Hawai'i, that is fast disappearing, and now presevered through this old form of Hawaiian folk music.
Secondly, this constant bickering from non-slackers about Slack Key winning the GRAMMY Award the past 3 years is just plain STUPID. The bottom line is non-slackers have got to travel the concert circuits just like us. Plain and simple, if people don't know about your type of music, then don't expect to win if your only goal in life revolves around a brass gramaphone. This is not the Hokus, it's a bigger game. Again I must reiterate, no matter how popular you are in Hawaiian music, the key to getting people familiarized with your music and with your music craft is to perform LIVE and make the same sacrifices we slackers made. I'm not talking about LIVE performances of 2, 3, 5, 10 times a year. I mean constantly----weeks, months etc. There are no shortcuts. This recent bickering about what type of Hawaiian music is acceptable and the proposed BANNING OF SLACK KEY from future GRAMMY nominations, uh huh !!! you heard it right, is plain IDIOTIC and shows how insecure some in the Hawaiian music industy are today. My wife put it right on the money, IT'S SOUR GRAPES and certainly fits the old Hawaiian euphemism perfectly of the 'alamihi crabs in a bucket.
Lastly, my answer to the self appointed righteous GODS of Hawaiian music is, if people don't know who you are in the music world outside Hawaii, then there's nobody to blame but YOURSELVES regardless of how popular you are in Hawaii or the amount of albums you've sold. It's time to get out and play the bigger game outside of Hawaii. Quit blowing smoke on your shortcomings and making excuses. It's time to get real if you have the guts to walk the walk and talk the talk.
Aloha Ke Akua,
Rev. Dennis Kamakahi
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Edited by - naukilo on 02/23/2007 11:09:29 PM |
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Ianui
Lokahi
USA
298 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2007 : 05:00:21 AM
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Uncle Dennis has it exactly right.
While I'm not the most experienced producer around. I'll reinterate on what I was attempting to post before. There are Venues established here due to a lot of hard work by artist, promoters and a lot of cooperation from fans.
As a singer or other artist you have the advantage of some of the ground work laid out by the Slack Key Artist and promoters if you do mainland tours BUT marketing you is something else.
If you want to come here there are some things to consider.
This is just me talking, but if you expect thousands in fees, limo's hotels meals and air paid, don't call. Most venues here will not support all of that. It will be hard work.
Exposure is the key and as has been expressed you will need to come and come often.
To most folks on the mainland you are a picture on a CD cover and they have no personal connection to you. Slack Key artists have have made fans feel like they are personal friends.
Don't expect to develop overnight what Slack Key artist have spent years developing. However you have the advantage of all the ground work they have established. So other type of artists that choose to come can take advantage of what is here.
Instant success is not one of them.
No matter how popular you may be in Hawaii If you come in with a name no one has ever heard of on the mainland the show has to be a little something more than your good voice and a guitar or a uke. That's also why you have to come often and build a mainland following.
If nothing else come once and see what the Slack Key artist have had to contend with and why they have earned what they have.
The people of Hawaii pratically gave up on the music and certainly didn't support the artists. Isn't it incrediable that you could and probably still can find all the Uncles playing at the opening of something like a Pizza Parlor. As I posted earlier no one was doing anything with the music on the west coast 6 years ago, and most will never know the very large roll Partick Landeza played and the small roll I played in getting Slack Key rolling on the West coast. Plus it could never have been done without the cooperation of all the uncles. They gave 1,000% in support of making Slack Key successful
So Hawaiil music artist roll up your sleeves and come to work. The mainland is open and welcoming Hawaiian artist of all types. It's just not going to be handed out. Through exposure you will earn the respect of large audience thats waitng for your participation. That audience may or may not vote you a Grammy.
But until you let the audience know who you are, they are only going to vote for who they do know.
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2007 : 06:09:37 AM
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First off, I am not an authority on this subject. I just have an observation to pass along.
Last December,'06, I went to see Keola, Moana, and John Keawe in MINNESOTA (Talk about leaving your environmet behind!).
Anyway, Keola's performance was definitely a "show". He made it unexpectedly fun and enjoyable for the audience. I felt good after the show. His plan was obviously to have the group be personal with the audience and they made a wonderful connection by telling about thier personal lives.
The show was much more than just Slack Key. It was about traditional Hawaiian music and dance too. Moana opened with a chilling chant that left me spellboud--I definitly want to hear more after hearing it. She danced Hula and played a bamboo percussion instrumnt--not sure of the name. Keola also played the nose flute and told the audience about the reason it was played with the nose.
I realy don't know what other Hawaiian performers are doing, but I has seen Keola Beamer laying a foundation for traditional Hawaiian musicians. I think all that needs to be done it to folow up on it!
He drew 420 people...
My observation.
Bob |
Bob |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2007 : 07:17:22 AM
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| As Bob points out, there is certainly an audience for Hawaiian music even in the frozen north--and there has been for ten years, when the Dancing Cat tours started coming through. The Cedar Cultural Center in Minneapolis holds 300-400 (depending on how the seating is arranged), and it nearly always fills to the walls for slack key concerts. Last week's show with Keoki Kahumoku, Sonny Lim, Jeff Peterson, and Kohala was a sellout-plus (the manager told me he could have sold another thirty tickets), and the audience was clearly familiar with the music, up to and including singing "Hawai`i Aloha" at the end (with, to be sure, a certain amount of humming through the hard parts). And it's been this way since the first Dancing Cat troupe to come through and Led played to the Hawaiian *half* of a full house with jokes in Hawaiian. This is not, of course, an entirely mainstream audience--the Cedar is the premier folk/traditional venue in the area, and its supporters tend to be of the old-folkie/unrepentant-hippie demographic, but the local public and community radio stations also get the word out to the rest of the music community; and Hawaiian Sugar, a local band, puts on a lobby show; and it's an event that everybody looks forward to. I suspect that with this sort of receptive audience a non-slack-key act could do OK as well. We Minnesotans have been listening to Hawaiian language for so long it's not much more exotic than the Norwegian or Swedish or Finnish we hear at the annual Scandahoovian festival. |
Edited by - Russell Letson on 02/24/2007 07:19:14 AM |
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dagan
Aloha
37 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2007 : 09:16:11 AM
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Very interesting reading indeed! I wanted to contribute my two cents, as someone brought up the issue of the younger generation's support of Hawaiian music. I'd say that very few if anyone in my age group (20-35) play Hawaiian music. I won't get into what exactly is "Hawaiian" music, but we can all agree in involves certain instruments, generally sung in Hawaiian and should refelect the Hawaiian perspective.
I think there are three major points that need to be looked at. One, the over riding powerful influence of reggae music. Everyone wants to play/hear reggae, or Jawaiian. This is the stuff we hear on the radio. These are the "cool" concerts to go to, also more affordable and at local venues (local meaing, that's where we usually hang out, sorry we don't go to the Ritz-Carleton for an evening on the town). There should be nothing wrong with this, I love reggae, but it is how it is.
Second, there was and is a major disconnect between this generation and those that contributed to the rebirth of Hawaiian music and language. My generation was quickly thrust into the thoes of modern society. MTV, radio, CDs created the desire for what was new and hip. We didn't want to play "grandpa's music" And frankly we didn't know how. Maybe a few lines here or there, but the feel and meaing was lost. People now work and live away from the ohana. Industry changes broke up communities and therefore created a disconnect between the the young and the old.
Third, general laziness. This is the one that kills me. It's almost like a lot of us don't care. We take the music for granted. We haven't been taught that this music almost dissapeared and that we have a kuleana (responsibilty) to keep this alive. This is everyones fault. It takes time to learn all the verses and meaning of these songs. The stories behind them, where they came from. This takes a commitment and a desire that very few have. It is a lot easier to play a G and C throw down a little reggae drum beat and sing about how much you miss your girl.
But alas, everything always goes in cycles. I do play what I consider Hawaiian music and I have many friends my age who can sing and play the real deal stuff. Granted many of us have side bands that do play rock and reggae or whatever, but the mana'o is still there in us, and can't be taken away. So this will allow the music to evolve and change. The sounds that will be coming out of the islands will be new and different and really challenge our views of what is traditional hawaiian music. This is happening all over the wolrd as the cultures of yesterday have to come to terms with the culture of tomorrow.
I just wanted to give a younger local perspective to the issue of the current state of Hawaiian. I have enjoyed reading everyone's opinions and I am truely amazed and all the aloha that is shown to the musicians that travel to the mainland to share the music. I agree more vocalists and hula halau need to do more exstensive touring in the mainland, but I am not sure that will come to pass at the levels we would all hope. Maybe that time will come sometime in the future.
Thank you for reading my post and keep supporting Hawaiian musicians!!!
Aloha
Dagan B. |
www.daganb.wordpress.com
www.paniolomusic.com |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2007 : 09:17:39 AM
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Uncle Dennis - you say it so well, and from the perspective of someone directly in the middle of it all. If you'll allow me the indulgence of cheating, here's how I put it in another web-forum recently:
"And on the album that WON the Grammy this year? 8 out of the 12 tracks ARE VOCALS. Is there a Hawaiian phrase for "sour grapes"? Between this story, the commentary in the Star-Bulletin (calling for an "embargo" on submitting slack-key albums for Grammy consideration), and the discussions that I've read on innumerable online sources - there's a lot of complaining that leaves out a lot of information.
Who is willing to say that Dennis Kamakahi, Cyril Pahinui, Ledward Ka`apana, George Kahumoku, Jr. and Martin Pahinui (just to name a few of the folks on the winning CD) do NOT deserve a Grammy, or that they are NOT representative of Hawaiian music?
Yeah - the story goes a lot deeper than that, but you know what? The only musicians all huhu about this are ones who haven't won one of the three Grammys awarded to date; in fact, it's most of the same group of people whose suggested restrictions on what would constitute eligibility for this category got rejected (restrictions that, not coincidentally, would have helped their own recordings have a better chance of being nominated...)
Only three years. Not a lot of time to shake it out and get Mainland Grammy voters to learn more about other forms of Hawaiian music. The Grammys will never be a forum to celebrate the diverse quilt of Hawaiian music, historically or currently - that's why we're lucky to have the Hokus. Celebrate that we have Na Hoku Hanohano Awards (industry awards), Hawai`i Music Awards (public votes), AND a Grammy category (national recognition); this infighting over the Grammy Award is foolish." |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2007 : 11:17:14 AM
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You're right, Retro, about the sour grapes. That's part of it. But no one here at TP.net EVER said that the slack key masters on the winning album or any other don't deserve the Grammy. They are wonderful representatives for Hawaiian music.
Let's separate the sour grapes from the discussion at hand. What we are talking about now is whether the nominated and awarded music represents the spectrum of Hawaiian music. There is also a perception that slack key is preferred by Grammy voters because of marketing by Dancing Cat and touring musicians, not by traditional definitions of Hawaiian music. Being defined by mainland people is what offends some Hawaiians. Telling those Grammy losers to "suck it up" and be quiet is also not a pono way to end the discussion.
No one should be diminished or belittled during this discussion. Every winner has deserved the Grammy.
Thanks to Dagan for chiming in. We haven't even asked the question about whether Hawaiian reggae is Hawaiian music.
Jesse Tinsley |
Edited by - hapakid on 02/24/2007 11:19:22 AM |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2007 : 1:08:24 PM
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True, Jesse - I apologize that my comments did not have the full context of the other forum where they originally appeared. Part of that discussion focused on the call to have an "embargo" on slack key albums as nominees, which I felt was insulting. I am certain that different styles of Hawaiian music will win Grammy Awards in years to come, and I would hate to have those wins accompanied by an asterisk in the record books - something along the lines of "winner in the year when such-and-such music was not allowed to compete."
As for the Mainland definition of Hawaiian music - as long as there is a Grammy Award for "Best Hawaiian Music Album," that risk will remain high, as it will primarily be voted upon by Mainland-based members of NARAS. The only way to change that is to get more Hawai`i-based members of the music business to join NARAS. There are many more than 100 members of HARA, most of whom would qualify for NARAS membership. Why don't they join, why don't they influence the direction of this award, why don't they make the effort to further educate the voting membership about the huge range of Hawaiian music available?
I have yet to hear any answer to that beyond "the cost of NARAS membership." It's $100/year, less if you sign up for more than one year at a time; and there are literally hundreds of discounted services available to members that more than make up the cost of membership.
I don't ask anyone to be quiet or "suck it up" - I'm saying that they need to do more than complain - they need to join NARAS, they need to spread their message within the organization to which they have directed their complaints, not stand outside. If they are not willing to make the effort to accept the opportunities in front of them to actually make the changes they are clamoring for - then I cannot respect their message.
=Gregg= |
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naukilo
Lokahi
USA
103 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 7:35:09 PM
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Aloha Everyone,
Mahalo for the all the responses and it's time to move ahead and hope that eventually this thing will heal itself.....maybe not right away....LOL.....but eventually.
Looking forward to touring soon and maybe in your area and hopefully not get stuck on the tarmack for 8 hours as some of friends did 3 weeks ago.....AMEN
Aloha,
Uncle D
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 03:48:38 AM
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Dennis, please come back to the NYC area! Sometime *not* in icy Feb as you used to do when Freeman was scheduling you :-) May is good.
...Reid |
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