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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
 Posted - 03/09/2007 : 11:02:23 AM
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Now, not being a guitar player, I don't know if I am being picky or not (I am sure yunz will let me know if I am), but what do you think about squeaky strings? I think it may be the nature of the genre, but I have noticed that some slack key players squeek and some do not. Is it desirable? Is it not desirable? Does it not matter? I've seen stuff you wipe on the strings to keep down the squeak.
What say yunz?
Mahalo.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2007 : 11:58:22 AM
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There's been a lot of talk about "to squeak or not to squeak", but it's mostly about recordings. When playing live, the squeak is a transient artifact of playing, especially when sliding on the bass strings.
Many people like squeak because it sounds more "live". There are strings, techniques and additives purported to reduce squeak, but everyone squeaks. Some recordings have it digitally removed or diminished.
Jesse Tinsley |
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Davey
Akahai
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2007 : 12:24:46 PM
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I don't squeak.
OK, I squeak a little. Well, when practicing this morning, I sort of noticed I squeak a lot.
I'm in squeak denial, I guess. |
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Fingerpickin
Lokahi
117 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2007 : 12:31:27 PM
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Wcerto,
The "squeaking" sound you refer to is the sound made when fingers slide upon wound guitar strings. Sliding on unwound strings does not produce that squeaky noise. The wound strings on steel string guitars are the 6th, 5th, 4th and 3rd strings, with the 2nd and 1st strings unwound.
Some people like the squeak, I personally find it irritating. It is not that difficult to train yourself to pick up your finger slightly when sliding up and down a wound string.
Keola Beamer talks about this on his website, and not to speak for him, but the jist of what he says is that anything other than the notes played is just noise, and undesireable.
One trick I learned a while back is to wet your fingers with a little water just before you record. (remember to dry the srings off afterwards or they will rust!) This helps the fingers slide with less noise, or you could just pick them up like Keola and Ozzie do.
Hope that helps,
-Lance |
"Hey Lance, try watch." -Ozzie |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2007 : 10:19:32 AM
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Hey Lance -
quote:
you could just pick them up like Keola and Ozzie do.
I don't think that's exactly true. Sliding is a huge part of the slack key sound, and the only way to get is to, well, slide.
I've mixed two of Keola's CDs (Island Born and Mohala Hou) and belive me, the boy squeaks with the best of 'em! In fact, he has specifically directly me not to remove the squeaks as they are a part of the sound. Sure, I ducked 'em a bit, but they're there, in all their glory.
quote:
Keola Beamer talks about this on his website, and not to speak for him, but the jist of what he says is that anything other than the notes played is just noise, and undesireable.
Here's another side to that, too: On Island Born, Keola did some very funny things with his guitar. There's one cut (I forget which) that includes a "percussion" track made up of three or four diffent tracks of... ugly guitar noises. Yep, squeaks, the little tinkling sounds you get when you pick the string between the nut and the tuners, some thing that sounds like the buzzing of a short length of string before you cut it off the string post... all kinds of bizz-arrgh stuff. It hurt to listen too when I solo'd the tracks. It's mixed very low (I have my pride  ) but it's in there.
Also on the same CD, Makee Ailana is built around a percussive guitar part that starts and ends with thumps, taps and.. squeaks!
So squeak loudly and squeak proudly!
(I use Elixer strings to cut down the squeaking... )
Mark |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2007 : 11:39:50 AM
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Listen to yourself chewing, or breathing, or the rattle of your joints as you get up out of bed. Life is full of "sound effects". Squeaking proves that you're not playing a synthesizer. Real fingers touching real strings.
BTW Wanda, your Upper Ohio Valley accent is showing! |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2007 : 11:51:31 AM
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Does it make a difference if the guitar is acoustic vs. electric? I have not noticed that Ledward squeaks. And yes, I have noticed that Keola does on occasion. Uncle Ray Kane squeaks a lot, and so does Patrick. Matter of fact, I think Patrick learned so well from Uncle Ray that I have a hard time telling if it is Patrick or Uncle Ray if the mele is instrumental only. And it seems like the slower, nahenahe stuff makes more `ui`ui. I figure there has got to be some physics behind it. Does it happen with nylon strings? Who plays nylon strings that I could listen to? I guess I've been watching Mythbusters too much. I like fo' make da kine experiment.
How you can wet you fingers and no get bzzzzated? What if you got ka lima hou? Matter of fact, how you can play one electric geetar an' no get bzzzzzat anyhow? Inquiring minds want to know. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2007 : 11:59:11 AM
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quote:
BTW Wanda, your Upper Ohio Valley accent is showing!
See -- 50-some years living in Cleveland and W.Va. is still in me!
People think you are srom the south when you say you are from W. Va., and that you say "you'all" or "y'all". We don't --- we say yunz. Kind of like saying da kine.
Plus which I have never heard squeaky violin/fiddle (exccept when our daugther was first learning to play -----sheeesh) or squeaky mandolin or mountain dulcimer. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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feoli
Aloha
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2007 : 12:45:56 PM
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| I have used an unwound G (3)string for years. It makes a huge difference in sound and playability. I use a .22 unwound. I also use heavier 2nd and 1st strings - 22 and 18. I use John Pearse Phosphor Bronze and Silk Wound Light/Medium for my remaining (3) strings. The smooth bass combines well with the louder studier trebles. I also have taken a little off my frets to really make my slides smooth. |
Frank E. Griffen |
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feoli
Aloha
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2007 : 12:47:12 PM
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| Correction - 3rd = .22 2nd = 18 and my 1st string is .15 |
Frank E. Griffen |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2007 : 1:40:35 PM
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OK, I know,I am a pain, but, why don't we search the archives for this topic? It is there.
To summarize:
Squeaks happen. But there are at least 2 kinds of squeaks.
One is the sound of fingers on strings when sliding - on purpose. That can be minimized in lots of ways. The way Sarah learned, from Ron Loo, is to rotate your sliding fingers so that they are in line with the strings (and press just enough so that the slide is sounded - like being light with the bar, as I am learning, on a lap steel). I find this hard to do, especially sliding "down" toward the nut, but Sarah doesn't.
Another squeak happens when you are simply moving your fingers to another fret position and don't raise your hand completely off the strings. Lots of people use the feeling of the strings to guide them. Pull 'em up and plunk `em down in the right place,and no squeak. This is easier to do when you are playing slowly but, when playing really fast, or complicated moves, it is harder. I can do this when I am under 120 bpm. Sarah can do it 99% all the time.
Whether or not you think these sounds are "nice", is personal opinion and "In this Greeeeeaaaat Uniiiteee Staaaaaates of Uhmurrrrrica" errrrybuddy is entitle to his'n or her'n upinyon. (Or your`n or their'n, as I lahrned grownin nup in N`ngland, Ayuh, By Gorry.)
Keola's Makee Ailana is kind of a special case. When he whacked the guitar with so much emotion at the 1st AMC, my heart stopped. Actually. I had to politely cough to start it again with a diaphragm pulse.
...Reid |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2007 : 8:34:04 PM
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| Repetition is the mother of retention. |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 09:01:46 AM
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| As was pointed out, lifting your fingers just enough to damp it as you move to a new position will stop the squeek.(Jus' press, but not too hard?) However, when you want the first note to blend into the second, you need to maintain the pressure on the string. That's when you get the squeek. Keola Beamer says, in his instructional CD something to the effect of' Don't worry about it ;it's there, and Hawai'ians like it.' You can reduce it, some folks use flat wound electric strings to reduce it, they eliminate nearly all of it. So does not sliding from one note into another. But slides are a part of most musical styles. If I practiced carefully enough to eliminate it, I could reduce most of it from my playing. Read into that what you may, I stand guilty as charged. |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 09:28:03 AM
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quote:
Plus which I have never heard squeaky violin/fiddle (exccept when our daugther was first learning to play -----sheeesh) or squeaky mandolin or mountain dulcimer.
Want me to send you some audio files?
I've played Appalachian dulcimer since the late 1960s. You better believe that it'll squeak when you slide on the wound string. Ditto mando, though slides aren't used much in old time music. For that matter, listen to `ud, bouzouki, quatro, tar, or just about any instrument with wound strings. It's a function of the strings, the technique and da fingers, not the instrument.
In my case, I tried fiddle. It didn't squeak, it squawked. |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 12:25:08 PM
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| Good recordings of (gasp!%&*# @ !) accordion music will feature the sound of fingers hitting the keys. Omelets come with the cracking of eggs, presents with the ripping off of pretty paper, colds come with sneezing, etc. |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 12:57:11 PM
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| I try to eat a lot of fried food with my fingers right before playing. Works like a charm. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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