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mike2jb
Lokahi
USA
213 Posts |
 Posted - 03/21/2007 : 09:17:18 AM
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`Ilio Nui sort of mentioned this subject in his post today, but I still have a question about it.
I was fortunate to attend a local workshop with George Kahumoku last weekend (and to see a couple of TP’ers face to face for once). Our teacher introduced himself as “Uncle George” and that’s how we addressed him.
So it got me to wondering: who do I call Uncle (or Auntie) and when? I know it’s a mark of respect, and it seemed very natural in this case, even though Uncle George is about my age. And my Maui niece and her kids call me “Uncle,” but I am their uncle.
But would I call any teacher this, even a younger one? “Uncle” Keoki Kahumoku?
Could I possibly make a mistake by implying someone is much older than me? Don’t want to insult any Aunties.
I know there are no “rules,” but could anyone here give me a little advice on this?
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 10:10:17 AM
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I think Uncle George likes his role as an "uncle" and doesn't mind the title even though most of us are near his age. We've discussed the term before and decided it's generally for people who are older than yourself, not specifically for teachers. You can probably call George Kahumoku "George", "Brother George", "Bruddah George", "Uncle" or whatever is respectful. Some elderly Hawaiians want the title as a matter of courtesy, but those in their 50s are borderline "uncles/aunties".
Jesse Tinsley |
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Sweet Pea
Aloha
22 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 12:08:16 PM
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Aloha kakou.... my first post... I've been 'lurking' for a short time.
I believe, and I could be wrong, that 'uncle' and/or 'auntie' is also a matter of respect. Depending on the circumstances and the company we are in, I will refer to my hula teacher (not an official 'kumu') as 'auntie' and she is younger than I. And, my hula sisters will refer to each other, including me, as 'sis' and we range in age fro 15 to 52.
I look forward to a more confident response than mine, as I, too, have wondered about the correct usage of uncle / aunty ('anakala / anake). |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 12:40:04 PM
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| Aloha, Debbie. Welcome to Taro Patch! I would imagine it is a sign of affection, as well. Perhaps a way of saying even though you are not of my blood, you are still `ohana. One swell fella we met in Honolulu told us that he calls everyone cousin because we all have the same uncle, that being Uncle Sam. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 1:14:50 PM
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When I started working on a Hawaiian music radio show six years back, I was asked if I wanted to be "Braddah" or "Uncle" Gregg. Being on that age-cusp where I could have gone either way at that point, I chose "Uncle." I figured, as time passed, it would be harder to sustain an image as a "Braddah" - and easier to do so as "Uncle."
I try to always choose "easier." |
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mike2jb
Lokahi
USA
213 Posts |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 5:34:51 PM
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| I don't recall which of our Hawai'ian culture books or ditionaries I read this in, but it explained that Auntie and Uncle were to be used in addressing people of aproximately the speakers parents generation.And Tutu is used for the speakers grandparents generation. I guess you need to make a guess as to folks' age, and do the best possible. I like the whole concept; it's so much more friendly than Sir, or Ma'am. Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 6:36:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by rendesvous1840
I don't recall which of our Hawai'ian culture books or ditionaries I read this in, but it explained that Auntie and Uncle were to be used in addressing people of aproximately the speakers parents generation.And Tutu is used for the speakers grandparents generation. I guess you need to make a guess as to folks' age, and do the best possible. I like the whole concept; it's so much more friendly than Sir, or Ma'am. Paul
This concept of calling someone who you are not related to "aunty" or "uncle" is not something that I would think would be found in any book of traditional culture. While it certainly has evolved here, my guess is that it is a fairly recent development, probably from the 20th century. The Hawaiian equivalents 'anake and 'anakala are transliterations ("Hawaiian-izations") of the English terms. I suspect the same goes for the use of the term 'ohana to describe a group of individuals joined by something other than blood. This is not to criticize people who do this, but it is not something that should be passed off as traditionally Hawaiian.
Just out of curiosity, I did a search of Ulukau, and found no matches when searching for 'anake. I did find 367 matches for 'anakala, all occuring after 1924. The newspaper site is far from complete (about 6,000 pages are text searchable) but a pretty good sample.
The classification of kinship in Hawaiian is pretty complex, even with siblings (separate terms for sibling of opposite sex, younger sibling of same sex, older sibling of same sex). The book "Polynesian Family System of Ka'u" is a good introduction to this.
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hawaiianmusiclover06
`Olu`olu
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 7:10:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by keoladonaghy
quote:
Originally posted by rendesvous1840
I don't recall which of our Hawai'ian culture books or ditionaries I read this in, but it explained that Auntie and Uncle were to be used in addressing people of aproximately the speakers parents generation.And Tutu is used for the speakers grandparents generation. I guess you need to make a guess as to folks' age, and do the best possible. I like the whole concept; it's so much more friendly than Sir, or Ma'am. Paul
This concept of calling someone who you are not related to "aunty" or "uncle" is not something that I would think would be found in any book of traditional culture. While it certainly has evolved here, my guess is that it is a fairly recent development, probably from the 20th century. The Hawaiian equivalents 'anake and 'anakala are transliterations ("Hawaiian-izations") of the English terms. I suspect the same goes for the use of the term 'ohana to describe a group of individuals joined by something other than blood. This is not to criticize people who do this, but it is not something that should be passed off as traditionally Hawaiian.
Just out of curiosity, I did a search of Ulukau, and found no matches when searching for 'anake. I did find 367 matches for 'anakala, all occuring after 1924. The newspaper site is far from complete (about 6,000 pages are text searchable) but a pretty good sample.
The classification of kinship in Hawaiian is pretty complex, even with siblings (separate terms for sibling of opposite sex, younger sibling of same sex, older sibling of same sex). The book "Polynesian Family System of Ka'u" is a good introduction to this.
Aloha mai kaua e Keola! I am currently reading the book that you mentioned "The Polynesian Family System of Ka'u. It is a great book and read for this subject matter. I had to read it for one of my Hawaiian culture class that I took. |
Aloha Kakou, maluhia a me aloha mau loa (Hello everyone, peace and love forever) |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2007 : 05:12:37 AM
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Ray Kane was the first player/teacher I met in person ten-plus years ago, and it immediately seemed quite natural to call him (and think of him as) "Uncle Ray"--which was not the case with any of the dozen-plus other players I've interviewed. Of course, I'm older than all of the new batch of uncles (except Bla, who's a couple years older than I am), and no matter how much I respect the playing of Oz and George Kuo, it would feel very odd indeed to call guys a decade or more younger than me "uncle." As for "braddah," I make a point of not salting my speech with Hawaiian or pidgin words that aren't part of specific musical-artistic-cultural discussion--thus "kaona" rather than "subtext" (not a good translation anyway) and so on. So for the time I spent with George Kahumoku, it was always just "George," and Oz is Oz, and so on. This, of course, is a personal choice, but I made a conscious decision about how to present myself to folks from other cultures (gypsies, Hawaiians, Appalachians, African-Americans, Iowans). Only a very serious formal occasion or a very close personal relationship would induce me to break out my fragments of halting, badly-pronounced and almost certainly comically incorrect Hawaiian.
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2007 : 07:21:37 AM
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A friend reminded me of the following circumstances, gleaned from discussions with the artists named:
Some musicians who would have certainly earned the respect title of "uncle" don't want it. The two that prominently come to mind are Keola Beamer and Robert Cazimero. They only kids they want calling them "uncle" are blood nephews and nieces. |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2007 : 3:18:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Retro
A friend reminded me of the following circumstances, gleaned from discussions with the artists named:
Some musicians who would have certainly earned the respect title of "uncle" don't want it. The two that prominently come to mind are Keola Beamer and Robert Cazimero. They only kids they want calling them "uncle" are blood nephews and nieces.
I think it also has to do with length of familiarity. My children have known Keola B. since early childhood, and even though my son is now 24 and we're not related by blood he still calls KB "Uncle Keola" and I sense no discomfort with that. Some of my son's adult friends, ones I've known since they were children, still call me Uncle and I have no problem at all with it. But having a grown man who I've never met before come up and call me Uncle makes me a bit uncomfortable, and it has happened. It's the presumption of familiarity and intimacy that "uncle" imparts that does it. |
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