| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
 Posted - 04/12/2007 : 6:00:33 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mark
There are also music services like Muzak -- Retro can fill you in here.
Whoa - heard my name in the middle of all this (rubs eyes, blinking, attempting to pull self out of whatever blissful state self was in...)
Muzak has two distinct delivery systems, and what we are required to pay depends on where the songs are used. Delivery system #1 is a satellite feed, where songs from the commercially-available disc are played in a big jukebox; this accounts for about 80% of our business. Delivery system #2 involves making a digital copy of the songs, to go onto a DVD, database, hard drive, tape, whatever.
With #1, the law treats us like radio. With #2, we are duplicating the song, and you've all seen that "Unauthorized duplication..." warning on your CDs - so we have to get authorization, under the guidelines of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
We report all our song usage, on a quarterly basis, to folks like ASCAP, BMI, SESAC (for songwriters) & Harry Fox Agency (for publishing.) System #2 requires us to get signed authorization from record labels and publishers, system #1 does not. Therefore, we can use pretty much anything in the jukebox-based programs, while the duplicated programs can ONLY use songs where we have licensing authorization - which, at present, is about 20% of our total library of nearly two million songs.
We negotiate the fees we pay to the songwriting representative organizations, usually for five years at a time. We negotiate individual deals with the record companies, and there are standard fees that we pay to the publishers - so those are the three areas where we pay our pennies (to the tune of several million dollars a year.) A "Sting," as you may guess, gets a lot more money from us than does a "Darin Leong" (though many may feel the situation deserves to be reversed.)
We assume that all other similar music services pay along the same lines; in fact, we usually negotiate contracts with the songwriting agencies collectively. Obviously, we pass on some of these costs to clients, as part of what they pay for our programming, but the clients (stores, malls, restaurants, airports, etc.) are legally covered for playing recorded music in their environment.
If a store decides to just have the cousin of one of their employees (you know, the cousin with a big music library at home) put together a songlist on an mp3 player, and they plug that into the store's p.a. system, you can bet that none of the musicians are getting anything from that store's sales-enhancing music mix.
Oh, except "exposure" - and as many folks here know, in this business, you can die of "exposure." |
 |
|
|
Trev
Lokahi
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 06:12:06 AM
|
I normally get paid in the car park (parking lot) after the gig. I then make an 'evil greedy miser' face, and cackle for a few moments whilst rubbing the notes (bills) between my grubby little fingers as I hold them in front of my nose. I sometimes dance a little jig of glee as well.
I expect most other musicians generallly respond in a more dignified way, though.
|
|
|
|
hikabe
Lokahi
USA
358 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2007 : 11:40:12 AM
|
I agree with Mark. People are fascinated with the aura surrounding musicians and artist and such. It comes from a "wanna be" mentality and a misunderstanding of what it is like to "be" an artist. The tactics and gimmicks that some people and agents use to trump up busines creates a bigger then life illusion. But musicians are no more special then any other people on the planet.
I quit my day job of 21 years last October to finally begin my career as a performing musician and music teacher. I could have started a career long ago playing the harmonica, but knew it would mean the end of my guitar, bass, piano and art studies. In high school, I was already orchestrating pieces that were similar to what Stravinsky, my favorite musician, had written. My passion and motivation was and is all about the finished product, the music.
Most of the musicans who say they are not into it for the money are lying. I am definitely doing it for the money.
The fact is that there are very few people who like what I prefer to play. I have to play what most people want to hear to secure gigs. Fortunately, I love all music and don't mind.
As a solo performer on the uke, I get paid a standard fee of $120 an hour and often get a tip from between $20 to $50. As a soloist, I keep all the money. As a teacher, I charge $40 for a 1hr private lesson from my home teaching harmonica, bass, guitar and ukulele. Although I have enough material for about 30 tracks, I do not have a CD out yet. (If anyone wants to sponser my CD, I'll put your name on it and pay you back against sales)
I am now making as much as my old job in half the time. I am also burning designs onto ukuleles for extra money as well as freelance artwork. I'm paying bills and am generally doing fine. |
Stay Tuned... |
|
|
|
wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2007 : 12:28:33 AM
|
| Hikabe - Very happy for you that you are playing music and making money at it. I see, though, that you too, as many other musicians, have to have many irons in the fire...live performing, teaching and other miscellaneous tasks. You are also right about people "glamorizing" musicians. I certainly have learned a lot from this thread- it is very hard work, at the very least, and can be all consuming. To those of you who do perform and record, mahalo for letting us share your gifts. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
|
|
|
slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2007 : 06:02:27 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mark
quote:
"Don't quit your day job!"
Actually, it is my day job. I go to accounting jams for fun...
For the record (so to speak) making a living as a musician is absolutely no different than any other form of creative self-employment: ya own yer tools, ya look for work, ya do the job and ya pays yer rent. Heck, it's no different from many knds of non-creative self-employment.
The difference is that no one glamourizes furniture builders or, oh, window washers...
Hey, Mark! You've seen ol' Thumbstruck. Ain't he glamorous???? See ya' Sunday at the Kona Kitchen, I hope. |
keaka |
|
|
|
hikabe
Lokahi
USA
358 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2007 : 07:48:20 AM
|
Mahalo Wanda and everyone at the taropatch for your insights. What a wonderful way for people to exchange their life experiences. I learn so much from visiting the lohi.
I forgot to mention an important factor in my situation. None of what I am doing is possible without the full support and help of my wife. There was a time when she would come home and find me in deep research, and yell at me for sitting around playing music all day. We are over that now that the business is panning out. I also got her to join the group and now she is happily singing and strumming with The HUI Players. She's my inspiration and my family is the driving force behind all I do.
Another important fact is that I have medical and dental coverage by my wifes employer. That is the main reason I was able to leave my other job. I think this is the main reason other musicians keep a day job.
Wanda, you are right about having lot's of things on the fire. I am constantly trying to set up workshops and gigs for income. I attract students by performing at festivals and giving workshops. I use my website as a calling card. hirambell.com
Good luck and continued success to all working artist and thanks for the hard work you do. |
Stay Tuned... |
Edited by - hikabe on 04/17/2007 2:30:23 PM |
|
|
|
Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2007 : 10:50:34 AM
|
| Hiram, thanks for that reminder as well. Many of us get to do the things we do with a generous amount of support (from financial to emotional) from our families, significant others, partners, innamorati. It's a blessing when you have someone who shares the joy that music can bring, rather than seeing it as something that takes you away from them. |
|
|
|
Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2007 : 1:40:15 PM
|
quote:
It's a blessing when you have someone who shares the joy that music can bring, rather than seeing it as something that takes you away from them.
True. But Annie was sooooooo happy when I gave up trying to learn the fiddle. |
|
|
|
Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
|
|
cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 11:17:42 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mark
Podcasts, net radio etc have been getting off scot free, but that's another topic.
Actually, podcasts are legally prohibited from using RIAA music at all (unless they have enough money that they are able to negotiate directly with the labels) and are only allowed to use indy music with the artist's permission, which most indy artists are happy to give in exchange for the free promotion. In fact, I'd go so far to say that the RIAA's refusal to set up a licensing structure for podcasting has done more for independent musicians over the past two years than anything else from a promotional perspective. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 04/18/2007 11:18:51 AM |
|
|
|
Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2007 : 5:15:17 PM
|
Another aspect, which I envy, is songwriting. The royalties still apply...no matta if internet or mechanical sales. Some of our friends have made hundreds of thousands.....but you have to be good, and land a song with a hot artist at the right time...
but then, there's always someone who rocks the boat and breaks the rules...
usually by just doing their art. |
|
|
|
Auntie Maria
Ha`aha`a
USA
1918 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2007 : 10:55:01 AM
|
Mark answered:
Performances: including everything from passing the hat on the street corner to full-fledged concert hall tours. You get paid a percentage of the take, less expenses (which can include fees for your agent, hall rental, ticket printing, the janitor, sound lights, etc etc etc...).
But many promoters and venues now pay a flat performance fee -- sometimes in addition to the musicians' travel expenses, sometimes not - - but disregarding all other expenses and the attendance.
|
Auntie Maria
===================
My "Aloha Kaua`i" radio show streams FREE online every Thu & Fri 7-9am (HST)
www.kkcr.org - Kaua`i Community Radio
"Like" Aloha Kauai on Facebook, for playlists and news/info about island music and musicians!
|
|
|
|
noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2007 : 12:57:54 PM
|
| I've done a lot of backstage work for concerts by big name groups and at the end of the day the promoter would go to the meeting with 50 others who had their handout when it was time to split up the bucks. So many hands in the pie . When the media reports that a tour made a jillion dollars practically 80% went out to pay for the production. That includes all the roadies, the techies , the TV guys, the musicians and the other things associated with the project. Insurance takes a big bite. I saw a rigger lose half his foot when a piece of stage he was guiding got mis guided and landed on his foot.. Putting up a stage was three days in and three days out and people getting 17 to 29 dollars an hour the crews went through 300 cases of bottled water and stuff. When a concert comes to town a lot of people make money besides the musician but even if your name is Mick Jagger you don't always get the lion's share. The musicians don't have to do half as much as the rest of the people associated with the show but the musician is what the show is about. I think I counted at least 40 people in the tour management alone and there was crew A and crew B leap frogging from one venue to the next along the route of the tour. Everyone has special jobs for example the guitar player for one show brought 25 different guitars and a guitar tech that kept them strung and tuned and if the electronics went out the guitars had to be repaired on the fly. I asked the guitar tech what he got for doing what he did. He said he will pay off his house with this tour. Of course he was away from home for almost a year. It is quite an industry. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
|
|
|
wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2007 : 02:32:51 AM
|
Now that our youngest daughter, Marianne, is traveling around the country with "High School Musical on Ice" (yeah, I know, I know), I am certainly getting and education through her on what it takes to put on a show, with all the pack in and pack out stuff that has to be done. After hearing her stories, I find it absolutely amazing that any kind of big production show can come into a town for a couple of days and do everything that needs to be done to get the show on the stage and satisfy the audience. I am amazed at the variety of jobs that it takes to do something like this, not only costume folks, as she is, but naturally all the lighting and sound and choreography and muscle guys and on and on. There is the 80% that Al said goes to those who support a show. It is a cost of doing business just like any other business needs to buy raw materials and pay labor to make whatever product they are selling. On the other hand, living out of suitcases and bopping from city to city, while perhaps exciting at first, has got to grate on you after a while. So far she has been Lakeland, FL (her company's HQ), Orlando, Nashville, Knoxville and now moving on to Virginia for a series of shows. They are even going to Mexico City for two weeks right before Christmas.
Not only does she have to help make and tailor the costumes, but they have assignments to "dress" and "change" one or two specific members of the cast, so they have to use lots of velcro and snaps. They run off stage into a separate little tent which is the portable dressing room. Each costume worker is assigned to specific performers for the run of the show.
My point through all that rambling, is that it really takes a huge staff to put on "professional" shows in large venues. Way more work that I ever would have imagined, and now I am kind of re-thinking my attitude toward those "big" name guys that charge $80 or more for tickets. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
|
|
|
sm80808
Lokahi
347 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2007 : 04:58:43 AM
|
hmm... I can say this, if you play at Roy's restaurant in Hawaii Kai on a weekend evening for 3 hours your group will get about $400 + tips + comp. dinner and drinks. You could probably sell a few CD's on the sly while you're at it.
Not bad if you do have a day job. :) |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
