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Gary
Aloha
USA
43 Posts |
 Posted - 04/13/2007 : 04:05:36 AM
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Do you boost the mids or the treble to get clarity running a line out from an amp to the PA. Additionally, the guitar has a pre-amp on-board with treb, mid, bass.
Thanks
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http://www.stylesupportmidi.com
Bass and Drum MIDI Tracks |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 06:44:58 AM
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Well - "Clarity" for most instruments would be that have the most accurate sound, and that would be that have the response "flat".
You do not provide enough information: What kind of Guitar (Acoustic or Electric). What kind of output on the amp? (Speaker, D.I., balanced , unbalanced, etc). Is it going through a snake to the PA or just a guitar cable?
Normally, with a good Acoustic Guitar pickup, and a decent Amp that has a P.A. or D.I. output, you just adjust the Amp the way you want the Guitar to sound on stage and send the D.I signal to the P.A. the way it is. D.I. signals are usually balanced and low impedance and can travel thousands of feet with little loss. The house mixing person is going to adjust the EQ the way they want it to be anyway.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 07:32:26 AM
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Hi Gary -
Fran's correct; it is always better to cut something -- say lo mids to accentuate the upper mids -- than to boost. But there are so many variables that it is really impossible to answer your question. What kind of guitar? What kind of amp? What is you goal? (For some, the hi mid honk of a piezo defines the acoustic sound. 50 million Hawaiian guitarists can't be wrong.  )
And Lawrence is also correct; flat may be the best option, particularly if the FOH operator is worth his/her/its salt.
Personally, I want to be sure the PA gets the best possible guitar sound, which can then be modified to fit the room. So I use an active DI and futz with the EQ -- rolling off around 2.5 K with a notch filter to cut the honk (I'll sweep it first to hone it in), maybe adding a tiny bit of lo mids to make up for the loss of body and to accentuate the bass strings. Maybe cutting same to make up for a crummy set of monitors or your basic bass-reflex-stryle stage design. My DI also has "tube emulation" which is a fancy name for fuzz. Yep, a little fuzz can warm up yer pickup wonderfully.
Interesting website -- and interesting biz. I'm curious about how you deal with the copyright issues when you post a chord chart corresponding to a named tune like, say Act Naturally.
cheers,
Mark
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 08:38:04 AM
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Among the many hats that I've been wearing for the last twenty-five years is that of audio engineer for the University of Hawaii at Manoa, Music department. In addition to recording, producing and providing sound reinforcement for students and faculty, I have also provided the same services for scores of world class musicians, this includes dozens of world class jazz, classical and slack key guitar artists over the years when we would produce a summer guitar festival. I am also a slack key artist and composer of note. From my experience this is what I can tell you.
The first thing I would do as a player is make sure that I know the sound of my instrument or rig as it is isolated from any PA. Having a good instrument to begin with is essential to sounding great, it makes everything else down the line easier to deal with. If the instrument's pickup, the amp or any of the signal processors and cords are noisy, than it means that the sound and mix will have to be compromised. Identify and replace the noisy components.
Keep the rig simple. Put on new strings a day before the gig. If it is an acoustic guitar with a pickup, or blend combo (including a mic) roll off the low end and mids slightly or until you are satisfied with the sound coming through the monitors and mains.
If the sound from your rig (including guitar, the pickups, cords, any pedals and amp) is clean and the final output amp from the lineout is of quality, than clarity shouldn't be an issue -- the amp followed by a DI (active or passive) pushes a mic level signal through to the board. You have a much wider range of options for tonal range and quality in comparison to say a straight acoustic performance with a condensor mic in front of an acoustic guitar that has no onboard electronics.
If clarity is still an issue either get a better instrument or look into getting a signal processor called a psycho acoustic enhancer and insert it into the signal chain. They are best used in slight moderation. Brands such as Aphex and SPL have been my first choice because they are quiet and easy to use.
The signal chain for you will be this -- pickup, preamp, all linkage (cords), mixer, signal processing, eq, amps, monitors and mains. Unintentional distortion or degeneration of signal can occur at any point in the signal chain
If you are playing in a band, you are but one sound source in the overall mix. If you are playing solo than you are the sole source for the house mix. The venue, the performer, the sound guys and to a large extent the quality of components used throughout the signal chain from guitar all the way through the mains is what will determine the overall sound.
If the overall sound without the guitar in the house mix sounds muddy than there is a problem with either the nodes within the venue, or the capabilities of the PA system or the system operator. However in most concerts a competent mains or FOH operator will usually be able to compensate for the hall and system characteristics before and during sound check -- this is when all of the tech problems have to be ironed out.
Any problems during the performance hopefully will be minor and incedental.
Unfortunately the sound guys get blamed a lot for mistakes that the performers make. The guy running the sound cannot compensate for the attitude of the guy on stage. So before you start blaming any sound guy for anything make sure that you are not the problem to begin with -- they have the power to really screw you, not only for the particular performance, but for the rest of perhaps a short and unenlightened carreer by letting other people in the business know about you through networking. This is a people business so you have to learn how to balance relationships.
PM
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Edited by - Peter Medeiros on 04/13/2007 08:43:12 AM |
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Gary
Aloha
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 5:50:08 PM
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whoa - Lots of good stuff here.
I play solo Slack Key. Guitar: Godin Multiac Steel String . Amp: the old (1st one made) Fender Acousticsonic Pro 80 watt. I run a Direct line out to the house PA.
PA - Is always whatever is at the gig location. (not mine) (Whatever and who knows if anyone knows how to run it).
I've been adding Mid. I'll try the cut routine. thanks guys! |
http://www.stylesupportmidi.com
Bass and Drum MIDI Tracks |
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ArtSap
Lokahi
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2007 : 08:35:37 AM
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| Keep in mind that some of the better amps have a built-in direct out and you're able to select what type of signal you want to send to the PA; either a "pre" or "post". Again, if the soundman is experienced, he should know that musicians are very particular about their mix so he would discuss that with them before the performance in an effort to get optimal sound quality. A good soundman works throughout the night making adjustments "as needed"... |
Art
SF Bay Area, CA / Mililani, HI
"The real music comes from within you - not from the instrument" |
Edited by - ArtSap on 04/17/2007 08:37:56 AM |
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Gary
Aloha
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2007 : 5:54:19 PM
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Hi ArtSap:
I have a "Pre" Direct Out, so the soundman is getting a "dry" signal from me. I use the amp as my monitor and the soundman has the house.
I have great FX comming out of the amp. Sometimes I wish I could send a "Post" signal, but Fender only offers a "Pre on this model amp.
Thanks for the post. |
http://www.stylesupportmidi.com
Bass and Drum MIDI Tracks |
Edited by - Gary on 04/17/2007 6:04:34 PM |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 06:28:32 AM
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quote:
I have a "Pre" Direct Out
This also probably means your DI output is pre-EQ, in which case you original question is voided, since you would not be able the change the EQ going to the house!  |
Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 04/18/2007 06:29:41 AM |
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Gary
Aloha
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 11:32:17 AM
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You are so right Lawrence! How silly of me to overlook that.
I think of FX and I think Delay, Reverb and such when, as you pointed out, the Eq is in the same group. I can't believe I didn't think of that!!
Thanks |
http://www.stylesupportmidi.com
Bass and Drum MIDI Tracks |
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ArtSap
Lokahi
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 3:38:01 PM
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| Lawrence is exactly correct regarding the "pre" signal send. So unfortunately what you're hearing on stage may be totally different than what is coming out of the mains. You're basically at the mercy of the soundman to EQ your sound. And if he isn't familiar with slack key, he wouldn't know what the optimal mix should be for that particular style of music. In any case, whenever I play a gig in which I'm using my own amp on stage I always tell the soundman that I'm going to send him a "post" signal so he knows without a doubt that he should keep my individual channel mix flat on the main board. Keep in mind that the mix won't always be exact because the overall mix may consist of more highs or more lows, depending on the soundman's ear. Everyone hears things different... |
Art
SF Bay Area, CA / Mililani, HI
"The real music comes from within you - not from the instrument" |
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Gary
Aloha
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 4:20:03 PM
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I think it's important to note, if the guitar has an onboard EQ system, that will travel a "pre" out to the house.
Hi ArtSap:
What you have to say, makes perfect sense. I'm going to continue using the onboard guitar EQ, or maybe keep the ax flat and add an in-line Boss GE-7 and an in-line delay (Visual Sound H2O) between the guitar and the amp. Now the house will recieve what I'm hearing.
Thanks!
I'll ask the house to keep it flat, yet the house speakers will no doubt, still need to be tweaked.
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http://www.stylesupportmidi.com
Bass and Drum MIDI Tracks |
Edited by - Gary on 04/18/2007 5:23:12 PM |
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