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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
 Posted - 04/19/2007 : 3:46:31 PM
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Over the years I've been playing music,I noticed that harmonics were easier at some frets, and some guitars, than others.It seemed that the better instruments made clearer, louder harmonics, and they were easier to produce. Why is this so? I never really used them much, until I started learning slack key. I don't have any of what would be called 'High-End' instruments; do they produce even better harmonics?And here's something I just noticed a week or so ago; one of my mt. dulcimers will make harmonics at almost any fret. I guess I never tried before, but enquiring minds want to know.Does any body understand the science of this?
Paul
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"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 01:14:57 AM
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| I have two steel string guitars. My best sounding one (martin) is harder to get harmonics from than the lesser one. go figure. |
Bob |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 10:20:42 AM
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| Similarly, I have a custom made Pimentel - lovely tone - great harmonics, but hard to hit just right (than my relatively cheap old beater) |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2007 : 1:33:02 PM
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| I have three Taylors and several other guitars. THe best harmonics are on a cheap plywood Regal resonator. I am not sure of the science behind it, but at camp Keola suggested plucking closer to the bridge to get better harmonics, and that sure seems to work on all the guitars. Oh, my Taylors are 600 series or above and have relatively good harmonics across the board, but my son has a 100 series he got for 500 bucks that has harmonics at 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 12, and i am not sure how many other frets above that! I have not played his, so it may also be he has a better touch than I do; cetainly the quality of the sound of harmonics on any guitar is directly related to how precise the placement of the fretting finger is. |
Karl
Frozen North |
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Darin
Lokahi
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2007 : 2:16:40 PM
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Hi Paul,
Every note we hear is a combination of the fundamental note, combined with "harmonic overtones" which give the note its color (i.e. bright, dull, etc.). The "color" of the note depends on the strength of the "harmonics" or "overtones." A guitar that we would generally describe as "rich" or "lush" with overtones, generally has very good harmonics. These guitars often have long sustain. Good examples would be Lowden, Goodall, Olson, and many other great builders.
The harmonic at the 12th fret is an octave above the fundamental note. So, if you play the open 3rd string of the guitar, the fundamental note is a G. If you play the harmonic of the 3rd string at the 12th fret, it's also a G, but an octave higher. This happens because playing the harmonic at the 12th fret essentially cuts the vibrations of the string in half. When you play the 12th fret harmonic, the string is vibrating in two distinct sets: 1) from the nut to the 12th fret, and 2) from the 12th fret to the saddle. Therefore, since the vibrations are half the length of the string, the audible sound is an octave higher than the open string.
The next loudest harmonic is the 7th fret. If I remember correctly, this harmonic makes the string vibrate in three segments (thirds). Therefore, the note that sounds is an octave and a fifth above the open string note. As a little experiment, if take the distance from the nut to the 7th fret (1/3 of the way from the nut to saddle) and move that distance from the 7th fret toward the saddle (2/3 of the way from the nut to saddle), you should get the same note as the 7th fret harmonic.
The 5th fret harmonic cuts the string into four segments (1/4ths). Therefore, that sound is two octaves above the open string.
The 4th fret harmonic is a major third above the 5th fret harmonic. The 3rd fret harmonic is a fifth above the 5th fret harmonic. So, if you play the 5th fret harmonic, then the 4th fret harmonic, then the 3rd fret harmonic, you get a major chord. If you go between the 3rd fret and 2nd fret and can find a harmonic, it's actually a dominant 7th.
I know I probably made no sense at all, so perhaps this article is clearer than my obscure explanation.
http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/harmonics.html |
Darin
http://www.hawaiiguitar.com/ |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2007 : 4:04:09 PM
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This is very interesting though the posts have shown my theory to be wrong. I assumed the dulcimer made more harmonics because of it's all solid wood construction. All my acoustic guitars have some laminated wood in them. My two dulcimers are all solid wood, but I haven't checked the larger one to see how it responds. I wonder if the resonator cone makes the Regal more responsive? Karl, any chance you will remove the cone temporarily for 'purposes of research?' No, I guess I wouldn't either.
Another thing I've noticed is when playing with a slide, I can hear the harmonic moving in the oposite direction as the slide.Apparently responding to changes in the effective string length? This won't make me play any better, but science demands an answere.
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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Trev
Lokahi
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2007 : 06:06:50 AM
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Yeah, I noticed this when I started playing slide as well. It is, as you say responding to changes in the effective string length. One side of the slide goes up, the other goes down in pitch.
I found it seriously annoying, so I started to damp the strings behind the slide. Some people like the effect and consider it part of the sound, so leave it alone.
Ever tried playing 'behind' the slide? That's a real spooky sound! |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2007 : 08:25:31 AM
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For some relatively easy fun with harmonics, try:
http://www.strummeronline.com/amazing_grace.htm |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 04/25/2007 08:25:47 AM |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2007 : 08:45:43 AM
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cpatch
I can see a full fleged amazing grace arrangement done with the harmonic version inserted somewhere for effect...maybe at the end.
Hmmm... |
Bob |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2007 : 5:25:56 PM
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After reading the above, I got out my two guitars to do a bit closer examination and comparison.
My cheap guitar - easier to hit the harmonics, 'cause you don't have to be right over the fret to get it. OK sound.
My custom made - harder to hit because there is less leeway - you have to be right on target -- however, like the rest of the tone, when you hit it, it is a much more beautiful sound. |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2007 : 3:08:42 PM
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Paul,
the ascending or descending notes you are hearing are the other half of the string, behind the slide. You may have noticed it is not the same note as the note you are playing, it goes the opposite direction tonally from the way your slide moves, and, it is never quite in tune, as you are hitting the slid note perfectly (sure you are, right?) therefore cutting the sympathetic note a tiny bit short of a true pitch. I HAVE FOUND THAT THE BETTER THE GUITAR, THE LOUDER THAT SYMPATHETIC TONE WILL BE. (exsuse the caps there). As Trev said, if you want to eliminate the tones, just dampen the strings behind the slide with one or more of your free fingers. Indeed, this is very highly stressed by some slide instructors who are sticklers for clean playing. Most good slide players will dampen the strings to eliminate that tone, but i just listened to a tune by Martin Simpson yesterday in which he let almost all the sympathetic tones ring out. It is an all slide pice, and the opposing tones make it sort of eerie (eary?) |
Karl
Frozen North |
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Trev
Lokahi
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2007 : 01:07:21 AM
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Hi Karl!
The eerie spooky sound that Martin Simpson is getting on that track is exactly what I was talking about. I've seen him do it - He's playing 'behind' the slide, i.e. between the nut and the slide, so the sympathetic tones are coming from the 'normal' side of the slide. He lives in the same town as me as well! What are the chances of that? |
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