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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
 Posted - 06/01/2007 : 11:46:31 AM
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I have been pondering many questions as pertains to Hawaiian culture, and really cannot find definitive answers to any of these topics. If any of you know resources I may use to learn more, please let me know...books, articles, web sites, etc.
1. Why no written language? What makes written language a "western concept", when "eastern" cultures had them (China, India, Japan, etc.) Did other contemporaneous Polynesian cultures have written language?
2. How can cultures exist simultaneously and one have developed "helpful" things and another didn't, e.g., smelting of metals, written language, music, pottery, art for art's sake?
3. Many pictures (drawings) I have seen of ancient Hawaiians show bare-faced men and men and women with short hair. Without metal, how could they be clean shaven and have short hair? How would they shave? I cut my legs everytime I shave with modern, superduper razors.
4. How was a malo worn? Was anything under there? (I don't know where you've been, my lad, but I see you took first prize). I've seen differing designs of malos in hula kane kahiko. Some are kind of poofy on the outside of the hips, some flat.
5. Did they have wagons or carts or other means of transport prior to western arrival?
6. Was use of awa purely ceremonial or a common every day thing?
7. Do trees lose their leaves in Hawai`i or do they keep leaves year 'round? Do fruits & veg. produce year round? Are there distinct seasonal differences? Over here you know when it is winter, etc. Major differences between seasons here.
8. How do the "polynesian" tattoos document history of a person? Isn't that a type of written language?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Mahalo.
Wanda
Inquiring minds want to know.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Pua Kai
Ha`aha`a
USA
1007 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2007 : 03:16:41 AM
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Aloha Kakahiaka Wanda,
Whew, you come up with all sorts of things! And I don't know much.
But the Indians here used obsidian for arrow points and shaving. So that would probably be true in Hawai`i as well. Yes there are seasons where it doesn't snow. Some fruits produce year-round like papaya. Mangos only ripen in May and June in Hawai`i, but I'm not sure which fruits are native. As you know, I live in SoCal and many transplants say they miss the seasons, but to us natives, the seasons are very distinct. There are many books written about early Polynesian (Melanesian and Micronesian) research such as Argonauts of the Pacific that are fascinating. I don't remember what all is included in Michener's Hawai`i, but am sure you'd enjoy it and find it very enlightening.
One way the anthropologists use to determine migration is through linguistics. The more recent the split, the closer the language; and of course the further back, the less the languages have in common. One word that is found all over the Pacific is mana, but it has subtle different meanings. Both here and in Hawai`i, history is maintained by story-tellers, chanters etc.
Use of wagons or carts is practical only in areas that are fairly flat between population centers. In the islands, the population centers were by the sea. The topography didn't lend itself to using carts, but the boat construction was good enough for the Tahitians to get to Hawai`i. I'm just guessing here, but pottery is made from clay and like substances which I'm guessing are not widely available in volcanic areas. On the other hand, coconut shells make excellent vessels. As you've heard many times, necessity is the mother of invention. If you don't need it, it doesn't occur to you to miss it.
Well, maybe this will get you started -
Enjoy!
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2007 : 08:19:06 AM
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Hi Wanda -
quote:
2. How can cultures exist simultaneously and one have developed "helpful" things and another didn't, e.g., smelting of metals, written language, music, pottery, art for art's sake?
Since you are an avid reader, I'm surprised you haven't come across Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs and Steel." http://www2.wwnorton.com/catalog/spring99/gunsgerms.htm
He attempts to answer a very basic question put to him by a friend from New Guinea: "Why is it that the white man has all the cargo?"
"Cargo" in this context means material possessions.. as in: a technology-based culture.
The short answer to why precontact Hawaiians didn't have metals or potery is geologic. It's a young bunch of islands. No metals, no clay. Some proto polynesians had pottery, but it appears to have been lost as the migrations continued. Clay takes a certain kind of landscape. Ditto metal tools.
He devotes a sizeable portion of the book to Polynesia; examining the similarities and differences between related peoples based on the available resources in their home islands. Not matter what you think of Diamond's thesis, the book will change the way you look at history forever.
Happy reading.
Mark
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mike2jb
Lokahi
USA
213 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2007 : 6:58:05 PM
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Wanda, I'd strongly second Mark's recommendation of Diamond's book, and after that you might want to have a look at his next volume, "Collapse" looking at why some apparently healthy societies suddenly seem to disappear. Both books deal heavily with Polynesia.
And if you're still interested and have the same questions about cultures closer to home, have a look at "1491" by Charles Mann, who describes American cultures just before the "discovery" and finds them to be very different from what I was taught in school. If you want to know about a huge South American empire without writing or wheels, he's got lots to say. This is not about Hawaii, but the parallels are obvious. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2007 : 10:45:58 PM
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Thanks, folks. I'm getting the books. I went to the web site Mark showed above, and it is really a great resource for various topics. The neat thing is they put a sample from the book (and it was a lengthy sample, as well).
Appreciate pointing in the right direction.
Hah -- when I'm all done, perhaps I shall write a treatise. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2176 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 03:54:53 AM
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| Look also at Thor Heyerdahl's work mentioned in a topic here by Larry Goldstein. Lack of technology doesn't make folks less human. How many of us can really understand all of our gadgets? My computer cheats at cards! |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 04:44:16 AM
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| But I still want to know about the malo. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 08:03:11 AM
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quote:
But I still want to know about the malo.
And you accused me of having a one-track mind???  |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 08:38:29 AM
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| Somebody know Keali`i Reichel? Go call and ask him whats under dere, then let me know. Pretty nice CD covers wearing da malo, yeah? |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 7:22:32 PM
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| When the kane dancers in our halau wore malo, they wore only malo. (None of them were "Scotsmen," however. Bryan Bowers & Mike Cross do great versions of that song.) |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 02:02:00 AM
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I saw on Discovery Channel about a group of micronesian islanders where the men, after a certain age, wore some kind of long, soft-woven basket looking sheath kind of thing over their male appendage and it was secured to a string encircling the waist, just to keep the thing out of the way and from getting hurt. That was the extent of their clothing. The women had some kind of pa`u looking wrap.
One of my specialties in DCMA/DoD is clothing and textiles, (I have contractors making class A uniforms, haz-mat clothing, inflatable life rafts, chin-straps for combat helmet; foam pads for combat helmet, bads for antennae; etc.) so I really have a great thirst for historial clothing knowledge. I don't mean empire gowns, etc., I mean why did it first happen and how it evolved, so I found this show most interesting.
One of the films we have (Mugge's Hawaiian Rainbow) shows Michael Kahikina working in a lo`i but every time he bent over to pick weeds, the front flap on his malo would drag into the water. I would believe that more traditionally, that would not have been acceptable because it gets the flap dirty and wet which could lead to germs and infections where you would not necessarily want them. Seems to me in an instance like that it would be mo' bettah to wear nothing. But then again, for this film, Michael Kahikina could not wear "nothing". If you have the film, please watch it and look at the malo. Now I have seen other malo that are much more secured and kind of poofy up over the hips. This style would certainly not be dragged into the muddy water of a lo`i. However, that style of malo seems to be used in more ceremonial occasions whereas the Michael Kahikina style appears to be work clothes?????
Wanda |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 06/09/2007 01:04:37 AM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 04:11:40 AM
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I found this wonderful web site from the State of Hawai`i with an extensive bibliography that touches on just about any topic you would want pertaining to Hawai`i. Hooo boy! I can just start going down the list.
http://www.hawaii.gov/hidocs/whattoread.html
Look at this one:
Titcomb, Margaret - THE ANCIENT HAWAIIANS: HOW THEY CLOTHED THEMSELVES (Honolulu: Hogarth Press, 1974. 55p.) Booklet illustrated with photographs and drawings, covers kapa production and instructions on how to wear a malo. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 06/04/2007 04:14:24 AM |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2007 : 3:08:46 PM
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| Just off the top of my head. A ma,.o would not be worn into a lo'i as well as surfing. The "cloth" is mulberry barkk. It is more like paper than cloth. It is made by beating the bark until it is very thin and is then pounded one piece to another until a sheet is formed. Very fragile indeed. In battle the flap would be tucked up and around the waist thus the phrase hume i ka malo or loosely translated gird the loins. The poofy pants like clothing on men , I've only seen it on hula dancers. So any way check Titcomb and che Fornander. Check Malo too I mean David it is not a pun. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 11:54:39 PM
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While in my quest to learn answers to my burning questions above, I stumbled over this interesting article aboout a group of people living in the Amazonian jungle. I guess this does go to show that a culture develops only what it needs. (Wait - I take that back...who needs video games, rap music, Loud Mouth Billy Bass (that fish that hangs on the wall and sings), etc., etc., etc.
Here's the intro....more can be found at: http://www.jcrows.com/withoutnumbers.html
By STEPHEN STRAUSS
Friday, August 20, 2004 - Page A3
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20040820/NUMBERS20/TPScience/
1+1=2. Mathematics doesn't get any more basic than this, but even 1+1 would stump the brightest minds among the Piraha tribe of the Amazon.
A study appearing today in the journal Science reports that the hunter-gatherers seem to be the only group of humans known to have no concept of numbering and counting.
Not only that, but adult Piraha apparently can't learn to count or understand the concept of numbers or numerals, even when they asked anthropologists to teach them and have been given basic math lessons for months at a time.
Their lack of enumeration skills is just one of the mental and cultural traits that has led scientists who have visited the 300 members of the tribe to describe the Piraha as "something from Mars." |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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