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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
 Posted - 06/08/2007 : 05:33:32 AM
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I have read a certainly different point of view in this article. Please share your comments. This article was written by Kenneth R. Conklin, Ph.D. Dunno who da heck, but will do more research on him.
OK - now I have found out more about him. Retired professor living Kaneohe. Writes books and stuff. Die hard, adamant anti-sovereignty and very vocal about it.
First link below is the article I stumbled across. Second link is out of Star-Bulletin earlier this week.
Remember, these are his words...not mine. Just because I read them and share them for discussion does not mean I believe the same way he does.
http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/hawaiiansovereignty/indigenous.html
http://starbulletin.com/2007/06/02/editorial/commentary.html
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 06/08/2007 07:39:38 AM |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2007 : 08:51:51 AM
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I have a Hawaiian uncle in Kaneohe who isn't interested in sovereignty either. He says ''If you want a Hawaiian kingdom, jus' remember: you not gonna be the king.''
Jesse Tinsley |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2007 : 09:23:50 AM
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I am king in my own household!
At least, I think I am. Try wait - I go ask Momi... |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2007 : 2:48:38 PM
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| He is a racist....and I stop there. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2007 : 10:44:01 PM
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Sorry for you guys, but it's one less of those we got to deal with over here. Afterall, we wouldn't want to extend citizenship to those illegals who bust their buts picking our food, etc etc.
Same fecal matter, different localtion, smells the same.
Sorry if that's too polemic for this site, but these guys and gals really tee me off. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 5:07:01 PM
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| All racism aside, and all pupule-ness aside regarding this guy.....we pretty much all came from somewhere to somewhere else, yeah? Only maybe some African persons...my kupuna way back came from England and Ireland....then all them Anglos and Saxons and da kiine, then where they came from I dunno, and then where THOSE cam from, I dunno....but I think someone it all gets back to somewhere on African continent. We are all relative malihini in the overall scheme of things. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 8:53:49 PM
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Racism aside,
I think what that guy is doing, and other like him regarding Native Americal issues on the mainland, as well as Hispanic stuff -- is that the try to blow a smokescreen over the issue, getting people to agree with an extraneous issue and not takling the real core of the problem -- a lot like the current white house does all too often -- sure the kanaka maoli came from elsewhere. Ok so a lot of what is going on may be "historical reconstruction" ,aybe even fantasy (Note, I'm not agreeing with him) None of that really matters.
The US Government screwed the Hawaiian people royally (no pun intended) just as it did the Native Americans, the Black slaves, and a whole lot of others. In fact, the USofA has very often acted in very shameful ways to others and toward "its own." That's the issue, as well as are we going to do something about it?
People like Conklin muddy up the issue with the kind of BS that they know will find a receptive audience, and the try to generalize their conclusions to all aspects of the issue. Back in high school, the judges would never had allowed that in Debate Club. Socrates would have had fun tackling that style of thinking. In fact he did. (I'll stop going beating the point to death.)
(My personal take on the issue is more of a tribal model. Maybe give the Hawaiians control of tribal land, lets say Honolulu-Waikiki and maybe Lehaina thrown in. Try to get that one past our money-for-vote controlled Congress.) |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 9:26:09 PM
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From an anthropological point of view, everyone is from another place, so perhaps territorial imperatives based on race are shortsighted. But if you're a Hawaiian, a Kurd or an Armenian, there are many reasons to claim an injustice has been done and perhaps the only remedy is an independent state based on race or common heritage.
Jesse Tinsley |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 03:08:00 AM
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Should sovereignty be gained, then what? In the old times, each King was to name their own successor. When that failed to happen with King Lot Kamehameha, a new and unique thing happened...an election for the office of King, instead of strict genealogical successorship...political campaigning polluted the purity of the process. How can you elect a king? Although that is pretty much what we do when we elect a president, I guess. And the president lives in a big palace in Washington, D.C.
Anyhow, back to what would happend should sovereignty be won....who would be the head of state and how would that person be chosen? Elected? Automatically who would be the closest descendant to previous Hawaiian royalty? How would treasuries be raised? What would their power be? Who would be subject to their control? How would that mesh with current US senate and congress? I shouldn't like to think it would be just some figure-head for show kind of thing. I do believe strongly that it is just a matter of time before the wrongs that were done will be righted philosophically, but in actual practice, that is a different story. I think it is just too big to get your mind around and because it is so big, that nothing meaningful could be accomplished.
What say ye? |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 05:44:29 AM
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All good questions, Wanda. I don't believe a monarchy will ever be reinstated, though. Hawaiians are too familiar with democracy today and would not view new kings or queens as unquestionable rulers.
Jesse Tinsley |
Edited by - hapakid on 06/11/2007 11:59:37 AM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 07:03:50 AM
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Perhaps people are afraid of sovereignty because they equate that with monarchy. Is the hue and cry strictly for self-governance or back to the political system in place prior to the overthrow? Restitution part of the sovereignty issues are a separate can of worms? People frequently cite restitution to native Alaskans.
Another question to ponder...when does the future generation get to stop paying the emotional price for what bad things were done by their forebears? I mean in the "royal" sense. I would say that pretty much any haole would admit that wrongs were done, but those who care feel great frustration about not knowing how to ho`oponopono. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 06/11/2007 3:11:41 PM |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 1:06:32 PM
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All too true. Sovereignty means the right to self governance. I think that is what is implied. There are several groups in Hawai'i that want to gain back control of oneself in the framework of an Hawaiian society governed by na kanaka maoli. the form would prbably follow current democratic models in existence today. I don't know if the US system is ideal for Hawaiians since parliamentary models may work as well. Perhaps a sytem with three branches to balance power? Naah We can see how that is manipulated to fool peoplke into thinking it is democracy but is really just tyranny of the majority with behind the scene oligarchy really in charge. Any way I think the point is it is just too complex to discuss here. But maybe liberty could be established first then economics then maybe democratic model of some sort. One thing, the Hawaiian people can look and see what does or doesn't work. One thing though, no gambling casinos to finance any Hawaiian Nation is desirable. Hawaiians need to ho'oponopono among themselves first. As I said, today's non Hawaiian don't have to apologize just stay out the way and let history happen.
I saw a masters thesis once that said the sovereignty movement had to pass through several stages of growth to reach its goal. In brief:
1. Identify the problem and all its aspects
2. Get angry about what was discovered
3. Get past the anger and seek solutions
4. Forgive ourselves and others so we can move on
5. Develop solutions and work toward fruition of solutions.
I think you get the picture. One thing is we need to educate the people on both sides and then we need to educate our peiople in scholastics. We will need lawyers, bakers, farmers and candlestick makers. People who navigate by the stars and people who can work with others on a global basis. Sovereignty won't be achieved by distruction but by construction of a whole, healthy, spiritual society that has reconnected with Earth Mother and all the things associated with that relationship. The largst wrong committed against Hawaians was to remove them from their spiritual base. That spiritual base set the foundation for all endeavors that the Hawaiian people could have undertaken that would have facilitated a healthy viable society. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
Edited by - noeau on 06/11/2007 1:07:36 PM |
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