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Turtle Song
Aloha
47 Posts |
 Posted - 12/16/2002 : 12:31:11 PM
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What are reasonable ongoing goals for a beginning Slack Key student?
Some of y’all know me from camp. I attended the first Aloha Music and Dance Camp last year as a raw beginner. I had struggled my way through Keola’s on-line lessons.
I couldn’t read tabs, so that was my first hurdle. With the help of a local guitar teacher (who began each lesson with, “When we get you back into standard tuning we will. . . . .” ), I slowly began to understand tabs.
During the first camp I realized I was hopelessly chained to those tabs, so I made it a goal to learn to memorize pieces. This has not been easy for me and I’m very slow at it, so I still only know a few songs.
One camper challenged me to begin learning by ear, very hard for me. I haven’t actually been successful in taking on this challenge on my guitar, but did work out a tune on my Native flute, a major step for me, woo hoo! I now want to try one on guitar, but I have to admit, fear is my enemy still.
Kanikapila is something I cannot do at all, so that is another goal, but I have no idea how to approach it. There aren’t lots of slackers up here to try it with (although that could change after Keola’s recent concert and workshop), and I wouldn’t know where to begin anyway. How does one progress from memorized pieces like the ones in Keola’s or Ozzie’s books to actually jammin’?
So, any thoughts?
What are reasonable goals?
What is a meaningful progression?
What are the steps to getting there?
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The seeds for the flowering of our personal peace are within our hopeful, but fragmented, selves. Reflection and silence compose the winds that nurture our simplicity that is the essence of beauty. - Frank Howell
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2002 : 2:46:12 PM
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Hi Debra,
Glad to see your post. I very much agree that "A learning progression is a VERY personal thing." How is your slack key playing coming along?
Without a regular "slack key" teacher, I feel that the tab is an immense help... for me, sometimes the only way I can "get it". I think it is realistic to work at one song at a time. It's probably toughest at the beginning to learn the first 2-3 songs. From there, you start building a repertoire and with that comes an understanding of certain phrases common to slack key. Occassionally, you pick up a song very quickly because it feels very familiar. So one hopes it gets easier. As you learn each song, it is good to wean yourself off of the tab. You do not want to be dependent upon having the tab in front of you to play the song.
Regarding kanikapila, I am challenged in this area myself. I believe as you build repertoire, it's like building an arsenal of tools to use in kanikapila. If you understand chords and melodies, you may apply those tools in your arsenal to play what you feel. So jamming takes practice too.
Ps. Say hi to Philip. How's his `ukulele playing? Any slack key from him yet? |
Andy |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2002 : 4:01:01 PM
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As satisfying as it is to learn a whole song, I suspect that one can also make a lot of progress by working on the bits and pieces, the patterns and structual elements that make up slack key, especially intros, vamps, and turnarounds. Try to figure out how your favorite vamps and turnarounds work. While it's nice to get them exactly the way that, say, Uncle Ray does them, it may be even more important to get a sense of how they fit into songs, and to figure out variations on them (different fingerings, different placing of hammers, pulloffs, and slides, etc.)--this gets you *inside* the music, instead of trying to get an entire song inside you all at once.
You might also learn the different fingerings/voicings for the (relatively small) collection of chords used in most tunes. Notice all the ways/positions for G, D7, and C in taro patch, and how tracing a melody often means choosing the right voicing (and often going up the neck). If you know three ways to make each chord, plus a handful of familiar turnarounds and vamps, you have a big piece of the vocabulary needed to accompany a singer or lead player in interesting ways--and materials that will help you to learn new songs as well, since they're made out of elements from the common stock.
Of course, this assumes that you're reasonably comfortable with alternate-bass fingerpicking, so you don't have to worry about neuromuscular control at the same time as these other matters. I'd make different suggestions to an absolute-beginner guitarist, a pick-style rock player, and a folkie with some fingerstyle experience.
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2002 : 4:29:04 PM
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Lots of excellent advice.
It IS very personal -- and so is your learning style. I would suggest that if you have a sense of your learning style, use that to guide you in learning slack key. For me, I learn best by reading -- therefore TABS are excellent for me. I also have a strong dissagreement with the folks that say you have to memorize all your songs. There is actually nothing wrong with reading grand staff or tabs all your life -- you do have to know the song well enough that you aren't slavishly bound to measure by measure. Once I know a song and am using TAB to help my memory, I typically read 1 - 3 measures or phrases ahead of where I'm playing. I also mark my TABS with highlighter for those passages that I usually have difficulty with - as a kind of "heads up." Play a song enough and you won't need TABS. Don't play it frequently and needing to read is more a question of how good your memory is as opposed to how good a musician your are. If you plan on performing, people generally expect you to play mostly from memory. (Damn Mozart -- that puncky kid got this memory thing started. Before him the common expectation was to play from notes. Symphonies still do.)
If your learning style is auditory, or kinesthetic, then you have to adapt your approach to slack key. Use your strengths.
One of the most difficult things is getting the nahenahe feel -- I can't imagine learning that without at least a few lesspons or workshops. Big thing Ozzie taught me - don't lift your fingers very high at all.
I agree with Russell about learning some of the key components. In a simple way, Ozzie calls these the "open and closed" positions and has a great chart of them. Georke Kahumoku treaches the same material more from a "chord" perspective. Having that stuff down very early is probably like knowing the alphabet when you want to write something. I think, however, once you go to songs, it is important to keep the focus on the whole piece. In breaking it down, one of the most usefull strategies I use is to start from the back. That way each time you finish a new section you "reward" yourself by going into familiar material. It also seems to make it easier to memorize that way. Before I tried this, I knew a lot of beginnings and got real shakey at a lot of endings. Now, when I finish learning the pieces I usually have most of the song down. However, if I dont play it regularly, I tend to forget and need to go back to TAB.
If you want to learn by ear and don't have a teacher or friend who can teach you these skills "in slow motion" get one of those recorders that allow you to slow the piece down without changing pitch. I use a Sabine that cost under $50, and it works fine. When I try to learn by ear, it is critical for me that I know the melody and can at least hum it. Then I go to the guitar, pick out the melody and basic chords. Much easier that way (not easy,...easier.)
As to goals -- depends on your guitar skills before you started and how much time you practice, as well as how quickly you learn. I just coached a friend through his first year -- no previous guitar experience. He learned all of Ozzie's book, 2 Keola pieces in Taro Patch and 4 Ozzie Tabs. Both of us feel that was a lot of progress.
I would urge you to be very careful about expectations -- they can be deadly. As a Psychologist, I can write tons on this. The point is, however, most of us are playing this stuff because we really enjoy it. -- So, enjoy the process. If you're having a rough day -- we all do -- take a break or play something you know. Hitiing a passage or technique that's hard -- try to enjoy the learning. Always go back to the sound. Play with the sounds you can create. Stretch yourself a bit, but not so much that it makes the whole thing a drag. We're not creating a rocket or saving the world -- just plucking strings attached to a wooden box. Enjoy the magic.
Raymond
San Jose |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2002 : 4:56:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RJS
If you want to learn by ear and don't have a teacher or friend who can teach you these skills "in slow motion" get one of those recorders that allow you to slow the piece down without changing pitch. I use a Sabine that cost under $50, and it works fine.
You can also do this on your computer via software. Transcribe!, from Seventh String Softare, is currently one of the best examples and works on both the Mac and the PC (it also helps you analyze sections of a piece to determine what notes are being played if you don't have tab available):
http://www.seventhstring.demon.co.uk/xscribe/
It's $40 for both Mac and PC versions and you can download a 30-day free trial from the Web site. One advantage of using software is that you can slow down the entire song and burn it to CD or make an MP3 from it. It's well worth downloading the demo and playing around with it. (I don't work for the company, I'm just a happy user.)
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Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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aplenty
Akahai
62 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2002 : 02:52:46 AM
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Aloha Deborah!
Just a couple quick thoughts...
'Learning by ear'... this will come with time... you'll surprise yourself by suddenly recognizing things other players do (by the sound), or being able to adjust tuning right to perfect note (just by listening). Just keep playing and listening and watching anyone you can... your skill will grow without you even recognizing it.
'Kanikapila'... If you can tune to a recording (something not too complicated by multiple instruments/tracks)... you can practice strumming along... getting the feel... you can even do this with some of the instructional CDs (they've given you the chords and tuning so it's easier to start here). You'll also find your ear developing with this kind of practice. When you do play with others, just try to relax and get the feel of the rhythm and make the chord changes... some people are easier to play with than others.
Keep pickin' and grinnin' and feeling the islands!
E Ola Mau Ki Ho'alu! |
Aloha nui,
Sandy & Doug |
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cdyas
Akahai
67 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2002 : 4:19:51 PM
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As a beginner and still one I ask myself those same questions almost daily.
I quickly realized that it was going to take some time... well a long time and not to be so hard on myself. I always try to remember baby steps.
I had to learn tab too. Not too hard but it takes practice. I found happiness in playing just one note well and then another and anoter. Pretty soon I found myself playing a few notes that resembled the song I was trying, slowly, but on the right track.
Another thing is that I have to tell myself to slow down and focus on technique and style. I try to listen to the song that I am working on over and over again until I need to listen to something else, take a few days off from that song and then come back to it so I can hear in my head what I am trying to play. I have learned to feel satisfaction in playing just a few bars together. Sometimes I challenge myself to play one more bar, sometimes it is to play the ones I know better. Either way I enjoy it.
A couple things that I need to do is to work on finger excersizes to strengthen them and to just practice more.
I just started working on Ron Loo's Slack Key Notebook #1 "class on a tape" I call it, and I think it will be good for me. The book itself has songs in tab but the tapes are what make it unique. It is Ron teaching the song bar by bar and then line by line and finally the song challenging the student listen and play and not be so tied to the written music. The package is not cheap ($45) and I had to call Hawaii to order it, but the closest thing to live lessons here in Colorado. If anyone can describe it better or has their own reflections since this is only my experience please do.
Just remember to have fun and enjoy.
Chris
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2002 : 5:19:09 PM
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hi deborah,
you've gotten so much excellent advice here, it's hard for me to add to the list. but, one thing i would add is: it sounds like you're pushing on two fronts, one musical and one technical. you can try to separate the two a bit.
you play the native flute, which is a beautiful and expressive instrument. the talent you develop with that - the ear and the ability to put together music - will carry over to your guitar. so, keep working on it. consider picking up the ukulele, which has a less steep learning curve and whose current popularity makes it easy to find classes and groups to play with. again, the skills you develop with that will carry over.
similarly, don't be reluctant to pick up other musical styles on the guitar. i learned to fingerpick with songs from mississippi john hurt, elizabeth cotton, and other (simple) blues songs. it's got a lot in common with slack key, and when i pick "my creole belle" on the uke it always causes people to stop and listen.
a funny thing happens the longer you play. it's like when you're on a long backpack trip; you stop focusing on the goal and start enjoying the hike.
aloha,
keith
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Keith |
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Turtle Song
Aloha
47 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2002 : 5:47:02 PM
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Dear All,
Wow, what wonderful responses, thanks! While I was working on this response, two more posts showed up. This place is great!
I am just at one of those stuck places. I could keep doing what I’ve been doing, I’m not unhappy with it, but, I would love to be able to kanikapila next camp. I’m not altogether a goal-oriented person, but, I know that with no goals, sometimes there is no vision and lost sense of direction. Maybe this kind of stuck place is itself progress.
I know that Slack Key isn’t first and foremost about music and theory and technique, it is first and foremost a journey, relational, spiritual, personal, deep and rich. Enough or I’ll start to cry.
I’m somewhere between knowing all of that to be true and wanting a recipe book that says, OK, you have accomplished steps one, two and three, now move on to this. OK, too much of that would infringe upon the journey. But still. . . . that is where my “meaningful progression” and “steps” questions came from.
OK, now for my responses to y’all. . .
John: Telling someone who has fear to not have fear is like telling a charging bull moose to stop. Doesn’t work. I could spend lots of time telling you where the fears come from, but that doesn’t help. The fear is there, much better to find a way to make peace with it and function anyway. Take yesterday, I did a delightful presentation about Hawai’i to my son’s sixth grade class. It turned out even better than my fondest hopes. It was just great. Except for the part where I picked up my guitar and couldn’t play the songs I know. I played parts, and the kids were delighted with that, so I’m not beating myself up today, but it just didn’t feel good. I talked fine. It’s playing that triggered me. So, maybe just more and more and more time with the thing sitting in my lap. Practice until it becomes like talking.
Hee hee.
And I’m not bound to what anybody else said about tabs, I really loved what I heard at camp about loosing the things that come between me and music, and it resonated with me in my soul. So, one goal for me IS to have pieces that I can do tab-less. I like that. And at home, privately, it’s working. In public, not so much. Yet.
Andy: My playing is coming along slowly, due to limited practice time, I know. Four kids come first. Getting one into college put a dent in my desire to practice. Letting that first one go, it feels like my heart has been taken out and put back in backwards and it just doesn’t fit any more. I’m getting back to practicing now, so hopefully more good stuff will come.
I get what you mean about learning tabbed pieces leading to some understanding of phrases. I can’t say that I understand what they are or why they work, but little things pop up and I say, “Oh, that, I’ve heard that before, I like that.”
You may see yourself as kanikapila challenged, but I saw you join in, hee hee. You looked like you were having fun.
Thanks for asking about Philip, what a delight he is. Most of his energies have gone into adjusting to a new school, but yesterday during my presentation he joined in with enthusiasm, playing his nose flute and sharing knowledge. About two thirds of the way through my presentation one student volunteered that he plays uke and Philip asked me to run home and get his! The whole class lit up, so the teacher shifted to other things, I ran home and got two ukes and resumed the presentation! Neat, huh? He really enjoyed our recent visit with Keola and Moana and George Vincent, who were here for concert.
Russell: You are right about bits and pieces. I have wanted to get out the turnarounds and such that Keoki gave us at the last camp and concentrate on those, and use the chord charts here on the website, I just haven’t done it yet. I’d love to have about a month’s worth of private lessons with Keoki! And yes, inside the music is where I want to be.
Raymond: I’m not sure what my learning style is. I do like the tabs for starters and I do tend to be a very visual person, and I didn’t do well at all with George K’s “you see, you hear you do” teaching style, so I guess tabs are it. I’m just concerned about being too mechanical about it.
It sounds like your friend did great for one year, he’s miles ahead of where I am at. That’s great.
John, again: Where is Fran’s post about the circle of fifths? I’d love to look that over. Your songbook idea is intriguing, but where to begin, figuring out chords from the key I don’t know how to do. . . .hmmmm. . . .
Doug and Sandy: Thanks for jumping in. I will always love you guys for introducing me to the possibility of doing this. You da best! I have a large fond place of aloha for you in my heart.
Keith: I “felt” more than knew that there would be carry over between the flute and Slack Key, and I have no idea what that is or will be, I just trust it will be, and that it will be good. I knew it without being able to voice it. As much a beginner as I am musically, I already have one song on the flute that I know came to me through my heart. It was given to me. I call it “The Haunting.”
Thanks all for your thoughts!
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The seeds for the flowering of our personal peace are within our hopeful, but fragmented, selves. Reflection and silence compose the winds that nurture our simplicity that is the essence of beauty. - Frank Howell
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2002 : 6:27:32 PM
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quote:
I’d love to have about a month’s worth of private lessons with Keoki!
Keep an eye out for Keoki's new instructional video/DVD, due out within the next month or so, and you'll get your wish! (Someone will post to the forum when it comes out.)
As for fear, one of the best ways to move through it is to run a worst case scenario in your mind. In other words, let's say you have a fear of public performance. Ask yourself, "what's the worst thing that could happen if I perform in public?" Say the answer is "I'll make mistakes or forget how to play a piece." Next ask yourself, "what's the worst thing that could happen if I make mistakes?" Keep going and you'll eventually find yourself at a place where you realize that the worst thing that could happen is something you can handle. Fear is fed by the unknown...once those things become known the fear no longer has control over you.
It's also interesting to note that the difference between fear and exhiliration is perception (think of how people respond to a roller coaster). |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 12/18/2002 11:54:59 PM |
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Turtle Song
Aloha
47 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2002 : 7:35:32 PM
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Keoki has an instructional due out? When? Where? How did I miss out on that piece of news?
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The seeds for the flowering of our personal peace are within our hopeful, but fragmented, selves. Reflection and silence compose the winds that nurture our simplicity that is the essence of beauty. - Frank Howell
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2002 : 8:33:58 PM
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deborah,
i've just heard about it from bruce lamb (who is producing it - well, at least producing one of them...) i saw some of the raw tape, and it looks good.
it sounded like bruce was planning on having it done relatively soon.
aloha,
keith
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Julie H
Ha`aha`a
USA
1206 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2002 : 03:27:46 AM
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| Deborah!!! (wave) I just came home from one of George's concert. I noticed during several songs that he either forgot the words or just kind of moved them around from verse to verse. Noone noticed. Then during one song he lost track of the chords and kept playing and singing until he found the right one again. So I guess that's the trick: you just keep going! The concert was special to me as I badly needed a Ki'hoalu fix in the middle of these blustery and windy storms. Ahh, Maui shores, how I miss thee.... Aloha, Julie |
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slackkey
Lokahi
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 12/25/2002 : 5:04:17 PM
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 Aloha SlackkeyShelby!
It's just me again! Slackkey Bill! Sounds to me you're progressing just fine! Heh...I can't read tabs! A friend of mine tried to show me....too complicating for one that had done his learning all by ear. Tabs at least gives you a guideline.
My guideline is to listen to a favorite song. I would play it over and over. Then I would listen to the play-back in my mind's-set....First I would pick it with one string (the melody) as I get comfortable, I would then incorporate the rest of what I knew into it. Five different times would all be different variations. But that's what's so great about it. From there you come up with your own stylings. It'll be the same song, but just not exactly the same way!
In other words, to try to learn a song exactly is okay...but as you may have already found out, can be frustrating even to the point where some would just give up.....DO NOT GO THERE!!!!! Be patient....relax your fingers on the guitar strings. Let your shoulder relax as well. It's hard to play when you're tensed-up. Take a few breaths...Inhale life...and exhale joy! Now close your eyes.....clear all thoughts of trying so hard. Focus on the flow of a river...The peace of being within the woods and there a trinkling brook....
Now hear the song you're trying to learn in your mind-set.....Hear and feel the melody....relax your fingers....now just go with it. (Nahenahe) means soft soothing and gentle. Do not be discouraged even if you do make a mistake or hit a wrong note. I do it all the time! Playing Slack Key is not easy when your just learning. Take you time to practice even if it means short intervals. You can still take care of the Family, and play Kiho'alu. A little time to practice is better then no time at all.
Here's another great tip (if you're not already doing it) Take your kika (guitar) out of it's case, and place it where you'll always see it to pick-up and play. Be patient but reamain persistant. Next thing you know you'll be having a great time "JUS PRESS"N.....
Keep practicing! Kepola (keh-POH-luh) That's your name in Hawaiian! Let me know how your progress is comming along! Some day you'll be joining all of us here in Maui Hawaii like Andy, Sarah, Reid and Keith has. Take care Kepola, and remember...be patient with your learning. But above all else, have fun! A Hui Hou!
slackkey Bill |
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Pops
Lokahi
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2002 : 11:13:57 AM
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Deborah,
When I was first learning how to play fiddle and banjo what helped more than anything was playing along (quitely) with people who knew what they were doing. It really helped to be forced to try and keep up with the big dogs and they were almost universally very encouraging about my desire to learn how to play old time music. Another thing that helps is to be alone in a room with your stereo and to try to play along with the records. As long as you know the tuning you'll be surprised by how much will fall into place if you just keep doing it over and over again. Just keep doing it and once in awhile the "light bulb" will pop on over your head and you'll grin from ear to ear. Just keep pressing!
Pops |
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