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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
 Posted - 01/05/2003 : 11:08:41 AM
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If you're interested in home recording, you might be thinking about microphones. I did a simple comparison of the microphones I have around the house. I mounted four of them side by side and played guitar for a few seconds in front of them. I captured the results with an M-Audio Delta-66 soundcard in four separate mono .wav files. I normalized the result so they would all have the same peak amplitude, and made each one a stereo file by duplicating the channels.
The four mics I tested were a Shure SM57, Shure SM81, Shure KSM44, and Oktava MC012. I've placed the four resulting stereo .wav files at http://www.fxguidry.com/mictest1 where you can download the files and listen for differences and similarities.
Fran
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E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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edkalama
Akahai
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2003 : 10:38:21 PM
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Aloha Fran,
Thanks for the info and samples. I listened to all four and they were all excellent! Which one would you recommend? Are they all in the same price range and are they too expensive for some home-style-for fun-recording only?
After your last post and advice, I found out I do have a Soundblaster sound card in my PC. I thought the Soundblaster was simply for the stereo surround sound components on the PC. I plugged in a cheap video microphone and had a great time doing some recording on my Uke and guitar in wav files and even converted them into MP3 files later. I've since been searching the net for the proper kind of microphone.
You are now my official resource!
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ed
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2003 : 07:39:43 AM
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Hi, Ed,
The mics ranged in price from about $100 to about $450. The least expensive is the Shure SM57.
None of these mics would work plugged into the "mic in" on your soundcard, so you'd need some kind of mic preamp in addition to the mic. With that in mind, my normal recommendation is a Behringer MX802A mixer ($80) and a Marshall MXL603 mic ($80). With these two components you're actually starting to approach studio quality - actually you'll get a sound that's way better than they had on Leonard Kwan's Tradewinds LPs <grin>.
Fran
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E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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edkalama
Akahai
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2003 : 2:31:18 PM
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| Thanks again Fran. I will definitely follow your recommendation. I will source this out on the net tonight and place the order, or do you know of a place (or site) I can get them? Mahalo! |
ed
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2003 : 4:57:11 PM
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Jwn:
Sounds like you are getting deeper into the realm of
a recordist. There are plenty answers laid out in
detail at such websites as:
http://www.homerecording.com/
or http//www.prorec.com/ , etc, etc.
Also some of the recording software companies have
decent BBS sites which discuss many of these recording
issues, such as www.syntrillium.com (cool edit).
Bottom line - Yeah you got to take all that stuff into
account. But don't get too fanatical. Remember that
you can hear Uncle's Rays breathing and his Oxygen
machine, and some bumps & stuff even on the Dancing Cat
releases. (no offense meant to George Winston)
P.S. Don't expect too much from your SoundBlaster, they
are somewhat limited and will "leap out and bite you" if
you try to change sample rates, etc. ...
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 01/06/2003 5:02:57 PM |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2003 : 8:16:58 PM
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quote:
I will source this out on the net tonight and place the order, or do you know of a place (or site) I can get them?
Check zzounds which I added recently to the www.TaroPatch.net/support page. I've never done business there myself but I think you can often get free shipping and no tax unless you're in NJ.
Fran has been my official resource too. Also check this post which had a lot of great info: http://www.taropatch.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=277
Now you guys are getting me started again. My problem is that I research things for hours and hours before letting go of my cash. There are a lot of hours between now and Feb 15. You guys are killing me (but it's fun)! |
Andy |
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edkalama
Akahai
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2003 : 8:52:28 PM
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| Thanks Andy. Looks like I might buy the equipment at Zzounds, through this website. |
ed
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2003 : 9:11:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by edkalama
Thanks again Fran. I will definitely follow your recommendation. I will source this out on the net tonight and place the order, or do you know of a place (or site) I can get them? Mahalo!
Ed, I don't know of a specific place. I've seen them at several on-line vendors, like music123.com, musiciansfriend.com, and others.
Currently the MXL603 is being sold with a cable, which amounts to about $20 off the total package.
Fran
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E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2003 : 9:17:17 PM
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At the risk of starting a "what's your favorite ice cream flavor" kind of thread, I'll weigh in on the mic/pre-amp issue.
If you can possible afford it, spend more money on your mic. There's a world of dif between a $50 dynamic and a real studio mic. And some very good bargains are to be had in the low to medium price ranges right now. Like the AKG C1000. A dandy mic, with an internal battery so you don't need phantom power.
Personally I'm not a fan of some of the super bargain mics -- (like I said, its about what flavor ice cream you like -- I know a very well respected engineer who loves the little Octavias for drum overs. Go figure). For very little extra you can get something that will drastically improve your recordings.
If you have a soundblaster, consider a mic pre w/ S/PDIF out. By bypassing the cheap conerters on the soundblaster you will hear a huge dif. (ART and Presonus both make very swell little tube units with digital out for under 2 Bills. )
Here's a quick checklist for recording your guitar --
1) How does the guitar itself sound? Listen for any weirdness, buzzes, notes that honk out. If you can, have a friend sit in the hot seat and place an ear up real close. Try listening at different positions to see where the sound blooms.
2) How does the room sound? How does the guitar interact with the room? How loud is your CPU fan? Can you hear the fan in your headphones/ (You do have headphones. right?)
3) If you are using two mics, are they in phase? (Pan them both straight up and listen on speakers. If anything sounds odd -- bass drops out, that sort of thing, move one slightly till the problem goes away.)
4) OK, body noises, chair noises, etc. Firstly, don't make 'em. Secondly, don't mic 'em. If you make sniffing sounds when you play, make sure you don't have a mic pointing at your nose... Wear clothes that don't make a lot of noise. Roll up your sleaves. wear a wet suit... whatever it takes. Otherwise, don't sweat it.
5) If you can get away with it, try mic'ing further away from the guitar. Classical guitar is often recorded with a stereo pair set six or more feet away, plus another pair back to catch the hall sound.
Maybe you can't get that far away, but try moving the mic back 6" to a foot. Guess what? The little rustly noises don't make it to the mic. Nor do most of the finger sounds. If you need to, throw in some signal from a pick-up or a close mic to bring back the top end.
The best way to deal with crud on a recording is not to record crud.
Happy recording!
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2003 : 11:04:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jwn
Eh wot? No Neumann's? 
I didn't realize when I got into recording at home that it was at least as big a money sink as handmade guitars <grin>. I have been advised by experts to skip the Neumanns and go straight to the Schoeps.
quote:
But as the enterprising young Fran-man pointed out:
...ranged in price from about $100 to about $450...
Seriously Fran... was that KSM44 used? I couldn't find it cheaper than $700. (And the Oktava for about 3 c-notes).
I did get the KSM44 used, but $700 sounds like list. I think dealers are inhibited about giving out the real price. The Sound Room (www.oktava.com) sells the single capsule MC012 for $193. I bought one multi-capsule and one single capsule, and so far I've never used the extra capsules. They're also available at Guitar Center for about $100, but I've been told repeatedly on rec.audio.pro that the Sound Room does a lot more quality control than Guitar Center. At GC you have to listen to the mics and do your own selection of the good ones.
quote:
Which leads me to my current dilemma: how do you go about recording and/or post-tweaking of the sound file to clean up extraneous sounds?
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I've been trying to record a "clean" sound but clothing rustling and hand knocks (on the guitar neck) and string squeaks are tough to eliminate.
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How do pro shops eliminate the crud whilst keeping the volume up and the sound full-bodied? I've been trying to stop the body noises (har har) as best I can. I've even gone as far as changing my hand to extremely awkward positions (for me anyway) while recording just so I don't hit, or bang, or thump the fretboard and/or neck and/or top any more than what's reasonable.
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Whatcha think?
How close do you place the mic to the guitar? I started much closer, but now I keep the mic about 18" from the guitar, pointed at the 12th fret. I don't notice problems with clothes rustling or bumps against the guitar body. String squeaks I control by using Elixir Nanoweb strings.
However, if something really bothers me, I'm not beyond "borrowing" the same notes from a different part of the song and pasting them in place of the glitches <grin>. I'm also quite willing to take a flyer at a song, repeat sections where I goof, and then go back and edit out the bad stuff. I might spend a couple of hours editing a 3 minute song. For this I use Cool Edit, because it has very effective marking and playlist technology - I don't have to really edit the file, I just build a list of chunks in the order I want them to play.
Fran
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E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 12:39:27 PM
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| Don't forget eBay too, especially for older mics that are often just as good or better than new ones. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 2:25:45 PM
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Yes - jwn, they sometimes do many takes. I have heard "rumors" that
Dancing Cat sometimes did 10-15 takes of each tune for their Hawaiian
releases. And I have been present at rock and roll sessions with as
many as thirty takes on the tape (circa 1974, Criteria Studios, Miami
at $300/hr = $1200/hr today's price) . It is my general opinion that
the best takes are usually the first few of a session.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 2:35:08 PM
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Also Fran,
If you come over to my place and bring you mics, we can add several
more to the test, including a few Neumanns. I don't have a Schoeps
yet, though.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
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