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Absolute
Lokahi
275 Posts |
 Posted - 09/21/2007 : 10:54:05 AM
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I got "A Place Called Hawaii II" via the local library because I wanted something with Gabbi Pahinui on it. The local library had two CD's with one track of him on each. I listened to the rest of "A Place Called Hawaii II" as I drove.
The Gabbi Pahinui track was outstanding, with a nice underlying jazz feeling. "A Street in Singapore" was okay, but for the most part, the tracks on this CD have a dated sound. They focus on places in a manner that makes it difficult for those who have not been there to relate to the song.
One can sing lovingly about one's home in an exotic place, but if you live far from there and have never visited the place, the appeal of the song can be lost.
I suspect this is why I am enamored with the music of Keola Beamer, who communicates his sense of Hawaii without words, and in a manner that makes the music appealing, without reminding the listener that this is a place they aren't going to be going any time soon and may never go, with lyrics that, at times, border on cliches by modern standards. I now understand why Hawaiian music got pushed aside, and is now enjoying a resurgence with instrumental works. The deep feelings for the place, when expressed with words, weren't relevant to a large enough population, even with seven million annual visitors, and a resident population of around a million.
If you enjoy the type of music that might have filled one of the "On the Road to..." movies with Hope and Crosby (which were lighthearted fun associated with a specific movie era and genre that I still enjoy), this CD might appeal to you.
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Thank you. |
Edited by - Absolute on 09/21/2007 10:54:27 AM |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2007 : 3:46:47 PM
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| Place name songs or mele pana are a definitely Hawaiian tradition in Hawaiian music. If you don't relate you don't have to listen./ But that type of song is never going to go away. and i don't care what the you think. Why do you guys profess to love Hawaiian music and then you don't take it for what it is instead you want it to be what you think it should be. If you don't understand the genre keep your thoughts to yourself. This time you got me going. How dare you criticize something abiut which you have no inkling. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2007 : 5:29:25 PM
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Absolute...
You really need to do some serious homework if you're going to be reviewing albums or songs. Your review simply showed a monsterous lack of understanding about what Hawaiian music is.
If you look over my posts, you will find that I'm fairly tolerant, I think, and want to encourage a diversity of views, but .... your comments are abour as uninformed as they can get.
Try starting with Kanahele's Dictionary of Hawaiian Music and Musicians. It is available at libraries. Read some of the survey articles.
"I now understand why Hawaiian music got pushed aside..." If I were Hawaiian I would be insulted by that comment. Mele were never intended to be muzak for mainland haole. Most of these songs come from a very deep connection to people, place and time. And it is our job to learn and respect. If fact, it is precisely most of the songs that were composed to please the mainlander's ear that are somewhat embarrasing, at least for me, to play. Well, there are a few very good ones.
This is not a put down of Keola, who is coming from a very different place - but with respect of and knowledge of the traditions. I think Keola is wonderful because he is pushing the boundaroes of slack key, not because his music might be more accessible to someone who doesn't want to go through the trouble of learning the richness of the images present in the mele.
If you don't want to go to one of the best sources, mentioned above, at least read through the archives and start to get a feel for what Hawaiian music is about.
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2007 : 7:01:47 PM
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I remember hearing the song "Pu'uanahulu" and thinking/feeling "What a lovely melody and lyrics" (even though I did not understand them). Later I found out that this was a song about a place, and like Noeau has pointed out, a tradition in Hawaiian music. I finally got to visit Pu'uanahulu a few years ago and the experience had much more impact after having heard the song and after having translated much of the lyrics myself.
Just two years ago, we went on a special field trip to another place with a song (Kipahulu), just because we like the song so much.
Hawaiian music is not the only music style that has songs about places. When I hear the Righteous Brothers sing "White Cliffs of Dover" (a place I may never see), I am still stirred, and why not?
Part of what makes a different culture interesting is that it is different (duh!), and one has to learn the difference to appreciate the culture. It is as simple as that. How can you understand Greek, Italian, East Indian, French, Brazillian, (whatever) culture if you insist on looking at everything with blinders on?
All that being said, "A Place Called Hawaii I or II" are not my favorite Hawaiian Music CD's either. Not because they have too much idiomatic Hawaiian traditional forms, but because they have too little!
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 09/21/2007 7:32:09 PM |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2007 : 8:07:21 PM
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This is an addition to my first statement. Absolute you may not have been aware of what you were saying. Please everyone read what I add after the no inkling sentence
quote:
Originally posted by noeau
Place name songs or mele pana are a definitely Hawaiian tradition in Hawaiian music. If you don't relate you don't have to listen./ But that type of song is never going to go away. and i don't care what the you think. Why do you guys profess to love Hawaiian music and then you don't take it for what it is instead you want it to be what you think it should be. If you don't understand the genre keep your thoughts to yourself. This time you got me going. How dare you criticize something about which you have no inkling.
Place songs served the purpose of reminding the listener about special places in Hawai'i. They preserve the old names and memories of special times and events. The haku mele may have met his or her sweetheart there and grandchildren several generations later can refer to that event that was preserved in the song. If you don't know Hawaiian language was literally banned from being spoken in public in Hawai'i for 70 years. A law had to be passed to make the Hawaiian language the second official language of Hawai'i. Place name songs therefore served as a way to preserve the history of a place. You are always free to think abd say what you will. But your opinion is not taken lightly by me. I feel disrespected and insulted.
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No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
Edited by - noeau on 09/21/2007 8:12:25 PM |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2007 : 03:10:06 AM
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| Every language has songs about the area and places of it's environs. Listen to Bluegrass and you get songs about mountains, farming, mining, rivers etc. The same goes for other types (OK, pop and Rock might not). People sing about what is familiar to them and places and events figure heavily. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2007 : 03:28:56 AM
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For me, it is chicken skin to stand in a place that was regarded with such mana that a haku mele felt it was important enough to write a song for it. Look at "Wahine 'Ilikea". Not 'old timey", not "hapa-haole"- but I've never seen the sights that Dennis did, but believe you me, that sound touches me every time I hear it. And who is not touched by "Ku`u Home o Kahalu`u".
I know that there are plenty of slack key guyz/gals who play instrumentals. For me, it is about the words. I think without the words, they are just "pretty songs". If someone plays an instrumental version of a song that I know has words, I'm still at least thinking those words in my head as the song plays on. It is true that the music is relaxing and claming. I read over and over iin the McMasters' newsletter about the music helping ho`oponopono in many different ways. That is good, but not quite what the songwriter inteneded. He put words to the mele to communicate a very definite thought or idea.
Absolute, I am not criticizing your taste in music. You like and appreciate what you like, and same thing for the rest of us. I've never been to Singapore, but I tap my feet when I hear Bruddah Smitty sing that song. Even a song that most point to as the typical hapa-haole song, "Little Grass Shack" is a mele pana about Kealakekua on Big Island". |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2007 : 06:13:32 AM
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I agree with Absolute that Keola Beamer's music is less Hawaiian "sounding" than other genres because his sensibilities are influenced by pop/rock/contemporary sounds and his guitar technique. He has become the epitome of the slack key-New Age crossover sound.
I have met several slackers here who are hooked on the Keola Beamer sound and that's why they play. Great. But the rest of us are unabashed Hawaii-o-philes and love it all.
Also, I don't think you can call "Little Grass Shack" a mele pana because it was a hapahaole song written by mainlanders and I've heard the title of the song was chosen because it rhymed with part of another song they were spoofing: Hackensack NJ.
Jesse Tinsley
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Edited by - hapakid on 09/22/2007 06:14:18 AM |
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Absolute
Lokahi
275 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2007 : 06:55:49 AM
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Ahh....good for free speech!
You got to aire your opinions with regard to your strong sense of place or particular affinity for Hawaiian vocal music, and I spoke mine as well from that of a person with no tie to Hawaii who is fond of slack key style instrumental music that can possess, from my perspective, unprecedented feeling and depth, that has a very clever structure reflecting a unique approach to instrumental music, and which often speaks of the culture of origin quite beautifully and without words. (I don't assert that Keola Beamer's music is less "Hawaiian sounding", though it can have the "Windham Hill New Age" sound. I actually strive to create Hawaiian sounding music, and wind up with stuff that sounds more like its based on bluegrass or inspired by Aaron Copland's western music.)
I don't hate Hawaiian vocal music. There are some works I like quite a bit. "Hawaii Aloha", as an example, is quite moving, particularly when sung by a non-professional group. Queen Liliuokalani was an elegant song writer. I just don't care for Hawaiian recordings that sound dated, though the "Street in Singapore" song was kind of nice, as I noted.
If you're from Hawaii, I respect your love for your home as expressed by songs that have no meaning to me. If I have to research a song then assert an artificial affinity for it, I'm just expressing a desire to pretend to like it because I am in the company of those who like that type of music, and not my own, innate fondness for it, which I do possess for the slack key genre. As for my reviewing qualifications. I have none except a knowlege of what I do and don't like, which is all that I am expressing. I don't go along with what a lot of professional reviewers say, and I'm pleased to see that you have the will to speak up and not go along with everything that you read.
P.S. If you want to hear an album of Hawaiian music that I do like, try "Hawaiian Village Nights", a memorial album of the music of Alfred Apaka with the orchestra conducted by Don Costa. It's quite nice. It was put out by ABC-Paramount records. The first track is Kawohikukapulani (by Helen Beamer). Another is "Isle of Enchantment" with Arthur Lyman. |
Thank you. |
Edited by - Absolute on 09/22/2007 07:36:06 AM |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2007 : 07:29:41 AM
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| you seem like you saying you would be a phony to get along E you pissed me off and you don't even address that with some semblance of regret. That what we call Haole attitude. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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Absolute
Lokahi
275 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2007 : 07:48:23 AM
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| I don't regret my musical tastes, even when others insist that I do. |
Thank you. |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2007 : 09:50:25 AM
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Noeau
Please - don't lump all haole with this guy. I'm haole. I am not a "wanna be," by any means. Nevertheless this guy pisses me off.
Musical taste is one thing. Not being willing to take the time to understand the traditions you claim to like is another. TYhat goes for both the Hawaiian music traditions as well as music theory.
At least I know I can save precious time by skipping Absolute's comments. And yes, Ab. is free to post here.
And that is the first and, hopefully only, time I've flamed someone - on this site or any other,
I can take not knowing, but add arrogance and a lack of respect for a complex tradition -- too much. |
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Auntie Maria
Ha`aha`a
USA
1918 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2007 : 10:33:26 AM
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A suggestion for Absolute:
The track you mention from that CD, would not be my first recommendation to someone who wanted "something" with Gabby Pahinui on it. And since you seem partial to instrumental Hawaiian music, and you wanted something by Gabby, how about combining both?
There is just one Gabby CD available which is all-instrumental -- featuring Gabby and his pals Alvin, Barney & Atta Isaacs. Title is "Hawaiian Slack Key Vol 2"
Soundclips are posted, to give you a sample:
http://www.mele.com/music/artist/gabby+pahinui/hawaiian+slack+key+vol+2/ |
Auntie Maria
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My "Aloha Kaua`i" radio show streams FREE online every Thu & Fri 7-9am (HST)
www.kkcr.org - Kaua`i Community Radio
"Like" Aloha Kauai on Facebook, for playlists and news/info about island music and musicians!
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2007 : 11:12:42 AM
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I'm not talking about color or anything like that I'm talking about people who unwittingly open up old wounds that smack of colonialism and arrogance. I don't care what personal taste someone has but when someone does a disservice to a culture and is called on it and still sluffs it off as a difference of musical taste then I cannot stomach such ignorance and I really would like to write more about but it would be in poor taste. I understand where you coming from RJS and I am not lumping all Haole together I said Haole attitude which is not the same as the way you took it. I domn't mean to get everybody all upset. But its about something that started in 1820 and has been going on ever since then til this day. It concerns the systematic distruction and disrespect of things that I hold dear. It concerns the passing of a government and a way of life that was looked at with disdain by outsiders who then went on to consciously displace what existed with their own way of doing things to the detriment of those who were already there. I can;\'t make others see this if they choose to remain ignorant it is their choice.
Music evolves, we don't emulate Cab Calloway or Glenn Miller or Elvis but these people and thousands of others like them have helped to shape the music and has also helped to contribute to today's tastes in music. There are are even groups of young Hawaiians doing hip hop and rap in Hawaiian language. You can like or dislike something but to make a public, judgemental statement about the state of the popularity of a certain genre of music is way off. And if someone can't see that sometimes what they say contributes to the sum total of harmful things done to a culture then I don't know. The powers that be gave the gift of making music to us humans as a way to communicate entertain and preserve what is worth making music about. It is quite often a deep spiritual journey and when some just merely attribute it to what is merely liked or not liked commits a disservice to us all. If any one is offended by this stand I take write me on the private email and we'll discuss this civilly like the grown ups we are. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2007 : 11:51:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Absolute
I don't regret my musical tastes, even when others insist that I do.
Absolute - rather than feeling a need to defend your own tastes (which you don't have to do), perhaps you could show a desire to understand what it was in your comments that offended others?
You've admitted that you don't have an affinity for some of these place songs - that's perfectly all right, no one can force that connection upon you. But you should be careful not to belittle what you do not yet understand, for that music that does not appeal to you will most certainly resonate deeply with someone else. |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2007 : 12:43:51 PM
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Al, just for the record ... I get what you are saying and, while you certainly don't need anyone's approval to feel it, it is certainly understandable and justifiable.
What was done to the Hawaiians - - and dozens of other indigenous groups - - is still being perpetuated, in large and small ways, and that should be a matter of outrage to all well intentioned people. This is not just "political correctness." The systematic devaluation of any culture is very serious. Because of my life situations I'm increasingly aware of its results on the Maya of Sounthern Mexico and Guatemala, where outright slaughter took place as recently as 1960's.) And almost every day the news tells us of the horrors in sub saharan Africa. What's all that got to do with this? Well, it is our responsibility to root out our own racism as well as contribute in our best ways to helping solve the larger issues. It is unacceptable to have veiled "imperialism," or whatever you call it, on this site, which is devoted to fostering appreciation and cultivate of Hawaiian music.
As to the "haole" comment - I get what you say, but you know it does hurt some of us who are doing our best to respect and learn about the Hawaiian ways. Your anger is justified, but, please realize, there are many others of many persuasions and backgrounds who are dismayed and angry at the way people in power (not just government, but anyone with "power,") have treated and are treating "first peoples," in many places in the world.
(BTW, I like the term "first peoples," which is used to describe the various tribal people in Canada. Accurately desrciptive and avoids giving fuel to those who thow up smokescreen arguements about who is "native," etc.) |
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