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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
 Posted - 09/28/2007 : 05:02:15 AM
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I don't mean to be a trouble maker but has anyone ever looked up ki ho`alu at ulukau (Hawaiian electronic library)?quote:
[Hawaiian Dictionary(Hwn to Eng)]
kî hô.'alu
n. Slack key (the first and last strings of the guitar are tuned to D, instead of E; the strings are picked individually and are not chorded).
Not to discount the value of the online dictionary. What an incredible resource. I was just surprised.
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Andy |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 06:23:16 AM
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As compared to wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slack-key_guitar
I guess this means Ulukau could use some help in creating more reference material. I am sure it is, to a great extent, a volunteer
organization.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2007 : 10:47:10 AM
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Ulukau is jointly managed by our College of Hawaiian Language and Alu Like, Inc. The content is provided by many contributors and supporters, such as Kamehameha Schools and KS Press, UH-Press, our friends at UH-Manoa, the Bishop Museum, Partners in Development and many others. For most of us involved it is a labor of love, done in our spare time or available work time, and done with remarkably litte direct funding.
Regarding the entry on ki ho'alu, you are referring to an entry from the Elbert/Puku'i Dictionary. We consider that dictionary to be a historical document. While there has been discussion of updating over the years, there are no plans to do so at this time that I am aware of. Within our college, we tend to address issues like this by updating Mamaka Kaiao. Mamaka Kaiao (also searchable on Ulukau) is mostly comprised of new words that have been created by the Hawaiian Lexicon Committee to keep the language vital and usable in contemporary society. However, it also contains older words that are not found in Puku'i/Elbert, other meanings for words found in P/E, and spelling variations. I can suggest that a more comprehensive and accurate definition for ki ho'alu be made there.
You need to remember also that the term kika ki ho'alu is not very old. Several older players I have spoken to believe that Alice Namakelua coined the term, perhaps in the 1960s or 1970s, but none knew that definitively. I have not found it in any Hawaiian language newspapers. Perhaps Peter Medeiros or someone else has greater knowledge of the history of the term. In any case, the term would not have been very old at the time this entry was made in the dictionary. It's possible that it was never updated; only a comparision with the older printing would tell us for sure. The one that is online is from the final printing of the dictionary.
Personally I hope to create a Hawaiian music wing on Ulukau in the near future, but need to get my Ph.d. word done first. |
Edited by - keoladonaghy on 09/29/2007 2:35:57 PM |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2007 : 4:01:56 PM
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The possibility that Auntie Alice is the source of the term itself is interesting. I was a bit surprised when I first read, in Elizabeth Tatar's "Slack Key Guitar" entry in Hawaiian Music and Musicians, that it "was not used in the 1800s" and seemed to have been popularized by the Hawaiian Music Foundation's promotion of the music. I wonder how far back the English term goes--there must be a lexicographer somewhere at UH chasing down this sort of thing--?
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2007 : 4:15:19 PM
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I heard Alice using the term kika ki ho'alu in Hawaiian language interviews on the Ka Leo Hawai'i programs from the early 1970s, about the time HMF began their efforts. It's possible that she had been using it for a long time and perhaps did not coin the term herself. I'll have to go back and listen to those interviews again for more detail.
I did a search of the newspaper archives that are text searchable (admittedly only about 5% of the known newspaper pages) and the earliest reference I could find to "kika" as guitar was the early 1920s. All earlier references were to kika as "tiger" or "cigar". In earlier papers (1800s) it was spelled either "gita" or "guitar". |
Edited by - keoladonaghy on 09/29/2007 4:18:20 PM |
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Bill Campbell
Akahai
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2007 : 4:27:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Admin
I don't mean to be a trouble maker but has anyone ever looked up ki ho`alu at ulukau (Hawaiian electronic library)?[quote
What! You a trouble maker? As you can see, I don't get a chance to get on here often, but, Andy - you, a trouble maker? Nope, food for thought. Good for the soul. |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2007 : 11:08:21 PM
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Keola,
Thanks for dropping in and sharing the extra info. Much appreciated always. |
Andy |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2007 : 08:14:28 AM
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Hi KD -
Good to hear from ya.
Interesting thought: Aunty Alice may be the source for the term kika ki ho`alu.
Because, if memory serves, isn't she also the primary source for the Mexican vaquero-paniolo-slack key guitar story? I've heard from quite a number of folks in the scene that they'd first heard the story either from her or from someone who'd heard it from her.
So Keola, what's the skinny? Any earlier citations for this in the papers you are searching? Could it be that she is the ultimate source for both the current name and the generally accepted history?
Russell, looks like you may have to start over!
And Andy -- yeah, you are a trouble maker. Here we go again!
Mark |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2007 : 08:59:22 AM
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Start over? Nah--in grad school we all learned cover-your-butt writing (also known as weasel wording) that simultaneously reveals and camouflages what's provable, what's arguable, and what's blue-sky speculative. (I believe lawyers get similar training--they're also in the business of weaving coherent narratives from miscellaneous collections of data.) The possibility that there's a point-source for that paniolo story *and* the term ki ho`alu (and that it might be Auntie Alice) is delicious, but it's really just the cherry on the sundae. (There's an elaborate metaphor identifying who/what are the ice cream, chocolate sauce, and nuts, but I don't want to get too fancy here.)
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2007 : 10:18:47 AM
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Aargh--I don't know why this wasn't right at the top of my memory when this topic first came up. There *is* a pre-1960s example of the term "ki ho`alu" right in front of us: the title of one of Gabby's 1947 Bell 78s is "Key Khoalu," which must be a mangled spelling of "ki ho`alu." Auntie Alice and the HMF may have lent authority to it becoming the standard name for the style, but the term was certainly out there earlier.
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2007 : 9:19:15 PM
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| Interesting. I still wouldn't write off Alice as a possible source for the term - she was born in the 1890s if I'm not mistaken. But correct, it's use didn't seem to become widespread until much later. Still need to dig up those recordings of her and listen for clues. |
Edited by - keoladonaghy on 10/09/2007 9:31:01 PM |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2007 : 06:57:20 AM
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Yah--she could have been calling the guitar style that the whole time she was teaching for Parks and Recreation (starting in 1935, if I have it right). Even if she were only using a term she had received, she certainly would have been an important source and authority for all those kids she taught. Given Auntie's strong traditionalist-preservationist sentiments, I'd bet that she received the term from someone up the historical line and was passing it on to subsequent generations, just as she insisted that the old style and the words to the songs be preserved.
I've heard bits from the interviews now held by the Bishop Museum, but it requires a better ear than mine (to say nothing of competence in Hawaiian) to get both the basic content and the nuances of those conversations. There's certainly great material in those tapes--I'm surprised someone hasn't transcribed them. In fact, I'm surprised that there's not a full-scale bio of Auntie Alice--there are certainly enough of her students still alive and active to supply anecdotes and establish the depth and breadth of her influence. (I've pestered everyone I could get at about her--though it's awkward from Minnesota, and my Hawaiian is non-existent.)
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2007 : 07:34:15 AM
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Sounds like a PhD thesis to me. Where are all the academics (aside from Peter and Keola)? The Kamaes are probably too busy making films - and rightly so. I think it would be great fun to do, too.
...Reid |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2007 : 08:00:07 AM
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If I were forty years younger, and capable of becoming competent in Hawaiian, and living in Hawai`i. . . .
I guess I'll settle for finishing the book before I croak (or the publisher decides I already have).
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Edited by - Russell Letson on 10/11/2007 10:36:53 AM |
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sandman
Lokahi
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2007 : 11:52:49 AM
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Hang in there, Russell. I'm on the same page (so to speak) as you. Too many sources, too little time. 
Sandy |
Leap into the boundless and make it your home.
Zhuang-zi |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 10:03:43 AM
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| I went back and listened to the one Ka Leo Hawai'i interview with Alice in which slack key was the predominant topic. There were also some folks from Ni'ihau on the program, which was done in 1973. No mention of the origin of the term kika ki ho'alu, though they all used it. Alice mentioned that she knew about 8 different tunings in her youth but had forgotten all but the wahine tuning she was best known for. She did say they had no names for the tunings, and never referred to them by a specific name like C Wahine, taro patch or anything like that. I'll have to go listen to the other tapes where Alice was a guest. |
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