| Author |
 Topic  |
|
hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
 Posted - 01/21/2003 : 02:57:17 AM
|
Like a lot of mainlanders that try to sing in Hawaiian, I'm sure I'm mangling the language in major and subtle ways when it comes to pronunciation. Some of the vowel sounds, especially, in spoken Hawaiian don't come naturally to mainland English speakers.
Although I learn songs from songbooks and a Hawaiian dictionary, I also tend to listen and mimic recordings of island musicians (I'm sure that's what most of us back porch wannabes end up doing  ). Sometimes, I think I can hear mainland accents in hawaiian language recordings, and it sticks out like a the string squeaks we've discussed extensively in previous forums.
Since some of you know more about the language or have access to hear native speakers, can anyone recommend artists that have excellent pronunciation and technique when singing?
And just aside, can anyone listen and discern, by pronunciation, a native speaker from a person who learned the language in a classroom?
Jesse Tinsley
|
|
|
Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2003 : 12:12:11 PM
|
Aloha e Jesse,
I don't speak well, but Sarah does, and I can answer some of your questions until she checks in and does it right and completely.
Vowels are "pure". Mainlanders tend to put in dipthongs where a native speaker wouldn't. We are also very nasal (Sarah isn't). Remember that Bingham and the other transliterators (wisely) used Latin pronounciations for the printed vowels, e.g., long e = long a in sound. So that gives you a clue as to how they should sound. Also, bad speakers break up the words in the wrong places in order to breath. Kaliko Beamer-Trapp was very helpful on that. Mimicking most speakers/singers is usually a bad idea. Singers who pronounce really well are Dennis Kamakahi, Keal`i Reichel, Theresa Bright, Ron Loo, Keola Beamer (his mama and Kaliko make sure of that :-), Auntie Alice Namakelua (we got her LP at Jelly's for $7). There are a few more that Sarah can add.
You *can* discern the difference between classroom learners and native speakers who speak well (not all do). That is, until and unless they continue on in a Hawaiian speaking community such as those on the B.I. or Ni`ihau. Sarah got several videos from `Aha Punana Leo that have conversations with na kupuna, and their accents and pronounciations are different depending on their age and were they come from or live. Different Islands or districts have dialects, as you might expect. Sarah's pronounciation is the equivalent of educated Parisian pronounciation in French - very clear and proper, but not very colloquial. A French speaker from the provinces sounds very different. She talked to Keali`i one day and he was rapid fire and had a slight dialect, but very clear and "proper". Sarah was quite "bookish", but she does better when singing.
...Reid |
 |
|
|
Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2003 : 5:22:16 PM
|
Aloha e Jesse,
Reid mentioned the singers I would have, for good pronunciation. It's a sad fact that, primarily due to the outlawing -- literally -- until 1978 the teaching of Hawaiian or in Hawaiian in schools, a whole generation or more of people who would otherwise be native speakers are not.
Reid also addressed very well your other question about book or school-learned vs. native speaking. I don't know if you've ever studied a foreign language, but if you can imagine how high school French or Spanish would sound versus a French person or a Spanish person speaking their mother tongue, I think you'd agree there's a difference that takes works to overcome. In the context of singing songs, however, I think -- I hope -- with the limited vocabulary and the proper rehearsal involved, one could hope for a very good "accent."
People can make great strides when among native speakers, whose accents and vocabulary also vary slightly by region, but then again, people can spend lifetimes speaking a foreign language and always sound somewhat foreign. Unfortunately with Hawaiian, there aren't a great many surviving native speakers to be among, so it's a challenge.
In your quest to do justice to the language and sound as correctly Hawaiian as you can, which is also all I can do, myself, I'd really recommend some study of the language. Otherwise, you are able to mimic only if presented with a correct example, and not able to discern an error of pronunciation, and not able to interpolate on your own how something *should* sound. It only perpetuates the mangling of the language if the erroneous portions are imitated.
The vowels are often described as being "pure," as in Spanish or Latin, with no glides or diphthongs. English speakers use diphthongs all the time and usually have a hard time even hearing the difference. Speaking a pure vowel without a bit of a glide at the end is something that needs practice and feedback, to get the hang of. A little hand-held tape recorder is a very helpful little tool. Now and then, I record myself reading, and listen to what I sound like. You can catch yourself doing unconscious things, that way.
The other thing that English speakers have a difficult time with is the 'okina. In Hawaiian, the 'okina has the significance of a consonant, and whether one pronounces it or not affects the meaning of the word, and this is *critical*. For example, the difference between the word for "yours" (kou) and the word for "mine" (ko'u) is one lonely 'okina. Could make for some severe mix-ups.
English speakers use 'okinas "like, 'all the time, man, 'every time (almost) that I start a word with a vowel, 'I seem to do this little glottal thing, 'unawares." ;-) And because it is in such common use and insignificant in English, we aren't attuned to paying any attention to its presence or absence.
The corollary of the presence of the 'okina is the absence of it. This is hard for English speakers to get used to: actually eliding two words together when one ends with a vowel and the next begins with a vowel. English speakers tend to put a break in there, especially for "emphasis" (such as, "Do it" vs. "JUST DO IT!"). In Hawaiian, for example, the words for beloved flower, ka pua aloha, would be "run together" so to speak, and pronounced "ka puaaloha" -- the "aa" simply is held as long as two a's without a break.
Regarding singing, it's good to have an idea about how the language "flows," and how it is phrased. Just like with music :-) Hawaiian, like English, is made up of phrases, longer or shorter ones. Breaking up phrases inappropriately is jarring to the listener. One thing I have noticed a number of performers do is take a breath in the *wrong* place. Like, in the middle of a word. I can only think that they don't understand the word, or that it's some other kind of oversight. Because when we sing, we are communicating, and breathing in the middle of a word is not the first choice :-) Knowing what you are saying, and therefore where the *logical* breaks are, contribute to better singing.
For you to get an idea of the "flow" of spoken Hawaiian, which one can't get from a dictionary, I'd recommend starting with a beginning book with tapes, and go on from there. And, you can always order some videos/tapes in Hawaiian from the 'Aha Pünana Leo, and just listen to the sounds and cadence of the language.
The best introductory book/tape set I know of is the following, and it has pronunciation exercises, too.
"Learn Hawaiian at Home" $34.95
By Kahikahealani Wight.
Learn Hawaiian at Home is an introduction to the Hawaiian language emphasizing the oral/aural approach to language learning. The conveniently packaged course is designed for people unable to take classes, but it is suitable for use in beginning Hawaiian language classes.
The course includes:
*An illustrated 176-page textbook with vocabulary, useful phrases, homework, self-tests, dialogues, answer key, and glossaries.
*2 audio cassettes offering guided practice in pronunciation, as well as stories and songs about th islands of Hawai`i.
Kahikahealani Wight has a degree in Hawaiian Studies from the University of Hawai`i at Hilo, where she has taught Hawaiian language. She currently teaches beginning-level Hawaiian language at Kapi`olani Community College in Honolulu.
I hope that helps.
aloha,
Sarah |
|
|
|
cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
|
|
Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2003 : 6:46:45 PM
|
It's me again,
Sarah and I talked and we have different memories of Theresa Bright as an example to follow, so I provisionally withdraw the name as an example - I would not want to mislead. I also want to emphasize what Sarah said about the Mainland use of the glottal stop - it is *everywhere*. In Central CT, there is a city named New Britain. But most everyone from there pronounces it Nu Bri`en. There is also a pronounced glottal stop in certain Southern Mainland dialects - Miss. River basin and delta area, for instance. At least once, a sportscaster from there get canned from a TV station because it was so strong and he couldn't eliminate it.
Use it but don't abuse it :-)
Sarah and I both agreed that, if you want to sound truly Hawaiian, emulate Keali`i - his accent is right on and he articulates very clearly. His songs are *wonderful* and, even though he said, in public, that he soesn't really like slack key (horrors :-), most of his songs easily can be done in slack key. George has done this and Sarah has done a couple, including Puakea Nogelmeier's tongue twisting "Toad Song".
...Reid |
Edited by - Reid on 01/21/2003 6:52:28 PM |
|
|
|
Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2003 : 8:45:25 PM
|
| Mahalo for all the great stuff written here! Got to go eat dinner now. |
Andy |
|
|
|
hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2003 : 11:58:06 PM
|
Thank you everyone for your insights. My mother learned Hawaiian from Auntie Kawena as a kid at Kam school in the 1950s, and she's very gentle when telling me my vowels aren't quite right.
I've listened to a lot of singers, and have my favorites for the way they present the language in song. Along with the ones Reid mentioned, I also like Brothers Caz, Haunani Apoliona, Ho`opi`i Brothers and Kekuhi Kanahele, Moe Keale and Uluwehi Guerrero. I think good singers give the impression that when they stop singing and start speaking, you'll hear the accent and rhythm of full-on pidgin!
I have a few texts and a dictionary, but I will check out the recommendations on the language course mentioned. I have tried one other cassette language course and thought the voice on the tape sounded very clinical and sterile. The rhythm of the spoken language wasn't there.
It's sad for me to discover that my extended Hawaiian family, including some over 80 years old, has no native speakers. Now trying to learn it from books is a challenge.
Jesse |
|
|
|
cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2003 : 02:45:54 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Reid
...even though he said, in public, that he soesn't really like slack key (horrors :-), most of his songs easily can be done in slack key.
After the current TaroPatch sampler CD is finished, let's do one with slack key versions of Keal`i's songs and send him a copy.  |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
|
|
|
RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2003 : 2:00:04 PM
|
Craig,
I gather from the happy face that your comment is tongue in cheek, no?
Some time ago I wrote to Keali'i when I was working on some of his pieces and the reply I received strongly indicated that Keali'i is not a fan of slack key.
George Kahumoku and I tried to do a few of his pieces for instrumental slack key. We worked out a couple of pieces, but unless you sing them, well... Two problems - 1)One of the problems is that he seems to sing a lot in Eb. (Or at least the pieces I like are in Eb.) When the songs are transposed to work in Taro Patch, they loose a lot of the feeling that comes from the key signature. Might work in a D tuning and a capo at first fret, but I haven't gone there yet. 2) Haven't heard a guitar yet that can do what Keali'i's voice can.
Raymond |
|
|
|
Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2003 : 2:39:53 PM
|
I'd like to add two things to this wonderful thread.
1) Reid and Sarah mention Kaliko, Keola Beamer's hanai brother. Kaliko teaches a daily class in Hawaiian language at the Aloha Music Camp each summer. He focusses on both understanding and pronounciation, and uses Hawaiian language songs as his examples. Likewise, Aunty Nona leads a daily talk-story session with much of the emphasis on language, pronounciation (she's always busting me for saying "`oo-koo-lay-lee") and songs, all in her wonderfully playful manor.
If you want to learn to sing in Hawaiian, this is a great experience.
2) Eb is a great singing key. There are a bunch of ways to get there in slack key. If you have a 12 string, just slack your Taro Patch tuning all the way down by two whole steps to Bb - Eb - Bb - Eb - G - Bb (this is actually pretty close to one of Leadbelly's tunings, and one George Kahumoku uses a lot).
Or bring D tuning up a half step: Eb - Bb - Eb - G - Bb - Eb. Any guitar with light strings can handle this tension. I've heard Cyril Pahinui use this tuning. If you play in Taro Patch, this tuning is very similar -- just move all your double stops, chords, etc down one string (so a lick you'd play in Taro Patch on the 1st and 3rd strings would appear on the 2nd and 4th strings.)
Another way to get to Eb would be to use any C tuning and capo at the third fret.
Happy playing! |
|
|
|
Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2003 : 9:47:31 PM
|
Raymond and Mark - Thanks for the input; and there are other solutions,too, and you have inspired questions. (Betcha didn't wanna hear that :-)
First, about Kaliko - if you haven't read Keola's book "The Shimmering", you ought to. I have a lot of suggestions for Keola about his writing ( but he wouldn't listen to me), but one suggestion is: "Don't change the piece about your hanai brother who has a fixation about making a major movie using model airplanes." Regardless of the truth or fiction of it, we recognise (and love) Kaliko and Keola in it, Big Time. That aside, Kaliko is a world class teacher of Hawaiian language and culture - and you don't even know you are learning - you are just having fun.
Raymond - I have heard George's (and your?) version of Keali`i's song a couple of times and it works well - yes, it is an instrumental. Sarah's versions never are - she sings them all. She sings one in C (capoed at 5), some in straight Taro patch, and some in A. I, frankly, don't know why one would want to do a pure instrumental of Keali`i's songs. The words mean so much and the vocal instrument is so important that a pure guitar instrumental seems to be self defeating or, at least, very limiting. What was the thinking behind it all? Also, Eb in which octave? The instrumental part may be lower than Open G, but I can't imagine that the sung part is.
Mark, the tunings you suggest seem to be more for male voices, I would have thought, and Keali'i's voice is, if anything, higher than Sarah's - she is an alto whose head-voice can be mezzo-soprano, but Keali`i is naturally higher. Lots higher. It is, I think, part of his chant training as well as his aesthetic (which includes Motown).
Maybe I am confused - help us (me and Sarah, both) out, guys.
...Reid
|
|
|
|
RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2003 : 10:41:34 PM
|
Aloha Mark & Reid,
Mark.... good ideas. I tried that moving down one string and it's great. Will share that with George when I see him in a few days. That's an elegant solution for me 'cause I'm starting to incorporate some arrangements of a few Polish songs I grew up with, as well as a few pieces from Africa -- and they all sound better in Eb. Since I play a classical guitar and changing tunings inside a set is very messy on nylon strings this might be the solution to being able to incorporate those pieces into a set.
Reid ... Why play Reichel songs as instrumentals? Well, if you're like me and you like the songs enough to play them but you can't sing worth a damn, your choices are limited. Besides I happen to be very partial to the sound of a solo guitar -- and was so much before I heard Keali'i Reichel.
Regards
Raymond Stovich
San Jose |
|
|
|
Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 1:37:55 PM
|
It is worth remembering that most Hawaiian tunes
played as slack key instumentals are also songs.
(Even though it is hard to imagine singing along
with some of Keola's instrumental arrangements
when he "jazzes it up a bit".) On the other hand,
I was very disappointed when some idiot wrote
words for Pacabel's cannon in D (now a lot of
people think it is a Christmas SONG! aaarrrgh  )
|
Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 01/23/2003 1:41:21 PM |
|
|
|
Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 7:47:02 PM
|
quote:
the tunings you suggest seem to be more for male voices, I would have thought, and Keali'i's voice is, if anything, higher than Sarah's - she is an alto whose head-voice can be mezzo-soprano, but Keali`i is naturally higher. Lots higher.
Sorry if I confused you. I think that you are might be thinking that one has to sing exactly the same pitches as are easily found in a given tuning.
The short answer is that Eb is Eb - once the tuning gets you into that key it doesn't matter what octave you sing in. In fact, I think you'll find that a relatively low pitched tuning (like Taro Patch slacked 'way down) will sound really cool with a higher pitched voice. Our ears like that sort of thing -- like the bass and melody in slack key. Or a string quartet -- ya need that cello.
The problem with limiting yourself to a single guitar tuning is that you will encounter songs that you can play but not sing -- f'rinstance I can't get high enough to sing Hi`ilawe in C, and it's way too low if I take it down an octave. So I sing it in Eb. (Of course, I can't sing it in any key, but that's another story...)
BTW: I have a wonderful little midget sized guitar that is naturally tuned up a minor third from standard. So Eb and Bb are a piece o' cake. Shortcuts R Us. |
|
|
|
kamalu70
Aloha
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2003 : 3:15:55 PM
|
Aloha kakou:
Just wanted to share a couple of observations and experiences I've had over the years on this topic. I learned Hawaiian language in school - 4 years of it at UH Manoa. That was a while ago, and I don't speak it very well now, but I can still understand it when spoken to, and I can still read it pretty well too.
One of the things I noticed about people raised on the mainland when they try to speak or sing the Hawaiian language is the rounding of the vowel sounds. The "o" sound becomes "ou" or the "e" sound becomes "ei."
In terms of singing in the key of the tuning you are using.....well, it's been my experience that a lot of the old time players do not play with their guitars tuned to concert pitch. For example, Raymond Kane, who I've had the pleasure of playing with a number of times, will tell you that he is in taro patch, but his guitar is actually tuned a half to a whole step lower than G. He maintains the actual intervals of the notes of the corresponding strings, but he's really playing in the key of F or sometimes even lower.
When listening to someone sing in Hawaiian whether it be live or on a recording, I think it is very easy for someone who knows the language to ascertain if the performer knows the language, or knows what he/she is singing about. It's not only the pronounciation, but the phrasing and emotion that will give you away. In terms of artists who know and use the language well, I'd have to say Keali`i Reichel, even though I'm not into his music at all, and Dennis Kamakahi, who I truly believe is a musical genius. The worst....gotta be Gabby, even though his guitar playing has been and continues to be a great influence on me.
And finally, I don't sing...you don't want to hear me sing. However, if I'm working on a kiho`alu piece that is a song with words, I make sure I know the words, the translation, and what the song is about. I think it really helps you to interpret the song, even if you are just playing it instrumentally. I find that when I'm playing the song, the words are running through my head, and it really helps me get a feeling for the piece. I believe that the key to openning up a lot of understanding of Hawaiian music, and Hawaiian culture in general, is the language. I was playing slack key before I learned the language, and in a lot of ways, it led me to learn Hawaiian. When I fist started playing kiho`alu it was simply because I found it to be a really cool guitar style, learning the language has made it a lot more meaningful and richer experience for me. Several of my language teachers were well known Hawaiian composers, and they always told me that the most important thing of any Hawaiian song is not the instrumentation, not the hula that goes with it....it's the words and their meaning.
Play big...have fun,
kamalu |
|
|
|
RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2003 : 11:00:42 PM
|
Kamalu,
I agree with that part about knowing the words even if playing instrumental solo. I also find that getting a good dictionary and looking it up word for word is better than just relying on a translation. We had some discussion of this a few months ago.
So, you like Kekuhi Kanahele?
Raymond
San Jose |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
