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Podagee57
Lokahi
USA
280 Posts |
 Posted - 11/15/2007 : 09:14:38 AM
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Just thought I share my experiences from my trip to the big city.
Hoping to buy a new guitar within the next year I did a little pre-purchase shopping this past weekend. Just wanting to be sure I don't overlook a certain brand or model, due to ignorance, that might well be a gem. Since I am wanting a wider nut -1 3/4"- with a cutaway, the possibilities are somewhat narrowed. I did find some real jewels that I had never given consideration to. My budget? Around $2,000. Here's my impressions.
Larivee - Wow, you can buy a Larivee OM with spruce top and rosewood sides/back, ebony fret board, for just over $1,000. I was very impressed with the sound and volume as well as playability. Plus, with that combination of woods, it seems like a bargain.
Simon Patrick - Again, a very impressive guitar for the money. The two I played were $700 to $1,400. They also feature the compound curved top found on their cousin the Seagull.
Martin OM - Other than some vintage series, the Martin OM guitars are the only ones that have the 1 3/4" nut. More in the $2,000 range, I tried several. One koa/spruce seemed to have exceptional sound. Beyond that I don't know if they were anymore impressive than the Simon Patrick or the Larivee. However they do bear the Martin name.
Taylor - I tried the GS with a spruce and rosewood combo. In standard tuning, it sounded OK...I didn't think it was anything special. However, remembering what fellow T-patcher John Aveiro had said about his, I tuned it down to Taropatch and it seemed to be a different guitar. Awesome sound in this tuning.
I also tried the 414c and just loved the sound and playablity.
Breedlove - Beautiful Guitars, but I just can't get excited about the sound of a Breedlove. Although I did try a spruce/myrtlewood combo that was nice, but the cost was close to $3k. Considering that the nut width that I desire is only available in the more expensive lines, I just don't think they justify the extra cost.
Of all that I tried, I think that the Taylor 414 was the most impressive. If I had to choose between the Martin and the Larivee, I think I'd choose the Larivee. Seems almost identical in sound and playability, but the Larivee is much easier on the budget...I think the best I found for the money.
Of course as has been discussed many times here, each individual guitar has it's own individual sound, so when the time to buy comes that will ultimitely be the deciding factor. However this little expedition has opened my eyes to a few options that I may never have considered. Before I buy I plan to visit a music store in the Seatle area that stocks a very large inventory of Larivee line.
If you are in the market for a new guitar but are on a limited budget (and prefer the wider nut width), I'd strongly recommend you seek out a Larivee or Simon Patrick dealer and give them a try. Seems like a lot of bang for the buck. Very, very nice instruments for the money.
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What? You mean high "E" is the TOP string. No way dude! That changes everything! |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2007 : 4:01:12 PM
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I don't have any solid advice, but I was at Guitar Center and I played four different Epiphone Masterbilt guitars, both dreadnoughts and the round-shouldered J45 styles. They were all very impressive for their price range, which is $400-$550.
Jesse Tinsley |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2007 : 4:59:09 PM
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All the suggestions are great, but what you like, I may not.
You never buy a guitar. They buy you.
If it plays itself, buy it.
dog |
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javeiro
Lokahi
USA
459 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2007 : 6:46:22 PM
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| Hey, I wondered when we'd hear about your visit to the big city, Kurt. Needless to say, buying a guitar is a very personal experience. 'Ilio Nui touched on something that in my experience I've found to be very true. As I may have mentioned before, I wasn't really looking to buy another guitar but when I first picked up that koa/spruce GS, I knew it was the one, no question about it! |
Aloha,
John A. |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2007 : 9:48:14 PM
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| many guitars have their own voice. Every time I hear one really sing. it also yells 5000.00 dollars. So I say nice guitar and then i put 'em back. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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Podagee57
Lokahi
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2007 : 9:52:48 PM
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I know guys, as I said, what it really comes down to is whether or not the guitar speaks to you in a way that you cannot resist. And that will be the final determining factor when the time comes.
However, a little guitar knowledge can help a person make an educated decision based on features and materials. I guess that's kind of what I am trying to say. I found guitars that had what I was looking for regarding features. The thing left to do is make the choice that, as you say, is oh so personal...the one that tells you you can't leave the store without it.
There were guitars, such as the Larivee, that had some great features and expensive materials that you usually don't find on a guitar in that price range. A great value in my opinion. That's something I think is worth sharing.
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What? You mean high "E" is the TOP string. No way dude! That changes everything! |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 01:13:12 AM
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| If you can find one in a store, take a look at the seagull mjm cw: mini jumbo Cedar/mahogany cut-away with 1.8 nut and LR baggs pickup,$750. |
Bob |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 02:06:22 AM
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For the money, you cannot get better than Simon & Patrick. They sound great and look pretty. Paul has had many complimenets on his S&P 12-string. Also, it is not loaded down with tons of lacquer rfinish. I think it is that nitrocellulose finish. Really has a very mellow and rich voice. Paul likes the action, too, on account of we are all getting older and our friend Arthur (you know him, too...Arthur Raitiss) visits us too often.
Canadian government subsidizes S&P, so the price is most reasonable. Those Taylors and Martins look swell and sound pretty good, but what does the money get you that is better than the S&P? I've heard much more expensive guitars that do not sound anywhere as good. I guess you can tell I am not a guitar player, though, because something that costs that much money should have third row stow and go seating and anti-lock brakes. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 05:29:32 AM
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As far as buying a quality instrument, I reason this way:
Buy the guitar, play it once at full price. Play it twice, the price per time is halved. Play it 3 times, a 1/3 and so on. Play it everyday for a couple years, it's just pennies a day. Remember: a good instrument is more than a tool, it's a mini-vacation, therapy, an appendage, a means of communication. Get the best you can afford and play'em. |
Edited by - thumbstruck on 11/16/2007 05:30:31 AM |
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javeiro
Lokahi
USA
459 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 06:36:40 AM
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| Thumstruck, I really like your way of thinking......or rationalizing! |
Aloha,
John A. |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 06:50:40 AM
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One of the things I discovered (by accident) when I shopped for my slack key guitar is the importance of the overall string geometry. Most of us are aware of the nut width, but the width of the neck at the 12th fret and the width of the strings at the saddle also have a big effect on how a guitar feels and plays.
The guitar I fell in love with has a fairly wide neck shape (2 1/4" at the 12th fret) and very wide spacing at the bridge (2 3/8"). Since then I've noticed that many terrific guitars are narrower (2 3/16 in both places) and are not as enjoyable for me to play. Until recently most dreadnaughts were even narrower (2 1/8" in both places, along with 1 11/16" at the nut).
Naturally, many people dislike the wide spacing that I prefer. The "best" geometry can be different for each of us, and some folks seem to be able to adjust to any spacing. But if we're not aware of these differences we might miss out on something that adds a lot to the comfort and playability of our guitars.
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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Podagee57
Lokahi
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 09:26:53 AM
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Haole Boy - I did try the mini-jumbo. I made the guy at guitar center put new strings on it and a CW dread cutaway so I could do a fair comparison. It was a tough decision but I left with the dread and have not regretted it. I've had it now for about 6 months. Both very nice guitars.
Thumbstruck - Gee I never thought of it that way. Now if I can just get my wife to see your line or reasoning.
Fran - Did you find a steel stringed guitar with that kind of string spacing? I know some of the new Martin vintage and golden era models have 2 5/16" string spacing at the saddle. The Breedloves are 2 1/4". You are right though about most guitars with the 1 3/4" nut, they only have 2 1/8" spacing at the saddle. By angling my E strings outward over the saddle and adjusting the others accordingly I have managed to get my Seagull to 2 3/16 spacing.
Wanda - Thanks for that info. I was really impressed with the Simon Patrick. If they are subsidized by the gov then the Seagull must also be, since, if I'm not mistaken are both Godin companies. I am wondering now if Larivee is too, since they also are Canadian based. |
What? You mean high "E" is the TOP string. No way dude! That changes everything! |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 10:28:39 AM
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quote:
My budget? Around $2,000.
Have you considered have Jerry Nolte (Everygreen Mountain Musical Instruments) build you one? His guitars are actually in your price range, and there is nothing like getting exactly what you want in a one-of-a-kind instrument.
I have two of his guitars, my little "New Yorker" has been all over the place since the mid 80s. I think you've seen the big one, it's what I usually play in workshops and on stage and it's on the back cover of "Old Time Slack." Both cost well under 2 grand -- though that was a few years back. His small guitars start at $2,000, larger ones at $2200.
Jerry's in Cove, Oregon, right near La Grande. Not all that far from Bend (by western standards, that is). I'd suggest dropping by so you can check out his instruments. And say "Howdy" from me. Jerry and Leigh are really wonderful folks.
http://www.eoni.com/~emi/6strings.html
Other than that, I agree with Dog. Which is why I have so many of the dang things.
Oh, and I haven't a clue what string spacing I prefer. Whatever it is on the guitar I'm playing at the time, that's what I like.
Happy shopping!
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 2:52:24 PM
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The Canadian Government does support musical instrument makers as an art form, I think the goal is to keep the prices competitive with the Asian companies. Larrivee would also be a recipient of this benevolence. And Seagull and Simon & Patrick are divisions of the same organization. As it was explained to me, Seagull, or maybe parent Godin, decided to put out a better grade instrument, using a higher grade of wood. So space in the Seagull plant was set aside for S&P. Looking at/listening to one or two Seagulls, I'm not clear what the differences are. It costs a lot to get better sound than either line. I haven't had the opportunity to play a Larrivee yet, though. And just to spread more names around, the two Lowden guitars we saw TP'er Ray Sowders play last spring sounded wonderfull. I believe they are Irish. But a big part of the sound comes from the hands. I play in my style, and perhaps a guitar that responds well to my playing won't respond as well to another person's style. When I first played my S&P, the sound just jumped out and grabbed me. That's why you need to play a lot of instruments before you plunk down the plastic/cash.The one that responds to your touch, and makes the sound you like will grab you. That's a long- winded way of saying what dog said. But...if you feel you need a new guitar, you NEED a new guitar. Don't fight destiny. Seek out your new companion. I can't help you justify the $5000 ones thoughj. I'm not sure they sound 8 times better than my S&P. So far, I've kept my hands off such instruments. No point letting Guitar Aquisition Syndrome get out of controll.
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
Edited by - rendesvous1840 on 11/16/2007 2:53:02 PM |
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Podagee57
Lokahi
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 3:34:21 PM
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Mark - that may well be an option. However I'm not sure I like the idea of having a guitar built for me. I would like to try it first, can Jerry do that? haha
Paul - thanks for the info. That may explain why the Larivee has those special wood combos for such a reasonable price. The Lowden looks real nice but a tad bit out of my price range. |
What? You mean high "E" is the TOP string. No way dude! That changes everything! |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 4:40:33 PM
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I just want to add my 2 cents about hand made guitars. Occatinally you may find a guitar that sounds close to a custom made. However once you get to play a custom made by a recommended luthier, the quality of the sound may change your opinion of what good tone is and you may never go back.
The good luthiers somehow make the tone fresh, with a kind of frosty and resonant quality. It is hard to describe the sound but it is special. Custom guitar makers know how to do it every time with all combinations of wood.
The guitar Mark recommended I have never heard but mark says this guy is good. And a custom for 2.2k That is realy low. Most go for 5-8k.
Customs are usually worth the money.
Maybe Nolte has sound clips.
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