| Author |
 Topic  |
|
RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
 Posted - 12/12/2007 : 12:21:33 PM
|
Keola was a big part in my introdution to slack key as you could see by looking at my song list. Probably was for many other too.
I would like to see him win some year but it would be weird if this one won for Hawaiin music. Well, unless they decide to reward stepping out-of-bounds with an art form.
I could see his CD winning but it would make me wonder how it was decided.
I too think it would be good for a CD with singing to win. In that case I would choose Cyril.
|
Bob |
Edited by - RWD on 12/12/2007 12:22:48 PM |
 |
|
|
Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 3:19:45 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Haole_Boy
I too think it would be good for a CD with singing to win.
There was singing on the two "live from Maui" compilations that won the past two years, as there is on "Treasures..." this time around. |
|
|
|
keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 5:57:41 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Russell Letson
This is slightly off-topic here, but regarding the Dancing Cat stash: I don't think it's a secret that George Winston closed down the DC operation gracefully (after the release of Martin Pahinui's excellent "Ho'olohe") because sales had declined--Ben Churchill told me that each album sold not quite as well as its predecessor, and my reading is that they decided to stop before BMG made the decision for them. (Remember, George owns the label, but distribution was in the hands of BMG by way of Windham Hill.) I was told that there was a *lot* of unreleased material and that at least some master tapes had been turned over to the artists to handle as they saw fit. (Could this include Cyril's "in the can" material that Chunky refers to?) Since then there have been a couple more DC releases--I don't know whether they were somehow in the pipeline or whether someone decided that the market could handle them or what. I don't think we've heard the last of Dancing Cat, though I wonder what kind of market conditions will allow George to continue the project.
Keola had a multi-CD deal with DC, so it seems that in his case and perhaps Cyril's they are simply honoring their contractual obligcations. I don't remember if Ka Hikina O Ka Hau was his last or if he still has a CD to release under DC. If so they should be respected for honoring their obligations.
Regarding his nomination, I spoke to him the day that the preliminary ballot came out, and he expressed his surprise that the release had been entered in the Hawaiian category. "It's classical music" was his response. Apparently it was the label that entered it, and the anonymous and incompetent Recording Academy committee that is supposed to vet the entries that allowed it to remain in that category. But don't get me started on that topic... |
Edited by - keoladonaghy on 12/12/2007 9:16:50 PM |
|
|
|
RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 8:54:00 PM
|
I have loved classical music for well over 40 years.
I trully love Keola's playing.
IMHO, and it hurts to say this, as a whole, Ka Hikina... is neither good slack key nor good classical music. From an artist of Keola's caliber it is more than reasonable to expect more.
There are, however, a few excellent cuts, and I don't regret buying it because I trully like to support artists who try to push the envelope. When you push the envelope, you won't always be successful. |
|
|
|
bubba
Akahai
72 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 07:52:09 AM
|
| Dear RJ Stovich - I know this is off point a little since you apparently weren't nominated for a Grammy, but this is to let you know that last night I believe I heard you CD being played over KAPU-LP 104.7 FM in Watsonville. It was beautiful |
|
|
|
RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 7:18:03 PM
|
Thanks.
Beginning in Feb I'm going to resume my regular gig twice a month at El Calderon in Mt. View, so if you're on the Peninsula on a Friday night, you might enjoy stopping by. Check with me first to make sure I'm playing. (15 month year old son gets priority.) |
|
|
|
wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2007 : 02:26:48 AM
|
Cyril is now a member of the Taro Patch `ohana. Don't forget, you can ask him directly about his music. If you go back to the review I wrote when He`eia first came out, I predicted it would be the Grammy winner this year, even way before anyone knew it would be on the ballot. It may be songs that have been done before. So what. Every time you do a song, it is different. I really like the concept of having He`eia on there two times, as well. I like the contrast. I like the singing, the picking and the emotions that the whole thing makes me feel.
Then again, most of those others are pretty darn swell, too.......... |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 12/22/2007 02:27:17 AM |
|
|
|
Keoki Kahumoku
Akahai
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2008 : 02:27:34 AM
|
OH well?! Not everybody can win all the time?! Iʻm a voting member and have been for the past 3 years. And guess what??? I neva vote! not once. Let the people(involved with music) decide and if you no like it den you guyʻs should be talking about stuffs dat bring us together, not things that break us apart! Shame on all of you who would turn Hawaiian Musicians against each other!!! Not like we get enough problems wit our own peoples trying to resolve dea own Kuleanaʻs, fighting dea own families over misunderstandings. i really believe that music is a blessing to bring us all together, to find common ground, not dis bullshit about who is more popular den who? All of the people nominated benefitted from dis award weather or not they won! Look at all the nominated cdʻs all with Grammy Labels on them for the World to recognize as music from Hawaiʻi. If dey hu hu den no put dat friken sticka on ʻum. In Hilo, I not famous for music, Iʻm da slop guy who recycles to keep our aina clean, Iʻm da pig trapper who helps people put food on dea tables, Iʻm da poi delivery guy, dat goes around da island, every week, making sure our KUPUNA get first crack at ʻum. I trade my music cdʻs for kulolo, pipi kaula or even dry opelu and even for vegetables at the farmers market. Our kids need good music in dea lives. Did you know that one of the main focuses for the Grammyʻs is music education, yet even here in Hawaii, da first thing to get cut in school is da music classes. Hello???!, itʻs already been scientificly proven dat Music and the Arts helps kids do better in their regular classes, especially in Language and Math!
Iʻve seen kids in the class dat no get along, connect wit each other cause of music. They able for set aside their differences all in the joy of creating one song together. They get enough trash on TV & Radio for confuse them even more...But, you know what? Plenty people donʻt know all the challanges dat it took for even get dis far in da first place, so we get peoples who can go to da press(Honolulu star bulletin/advertiser & tribune herald-you know who you frikaʻs are!) and talk crap, but you know when you throw crap, the problem is you still get da stink on your fingers!
If you peoples out dea who just donʻt get it, den, oh well! But, I have to say...sometimes you just gotta be there to see what all the excitement is all about! Aloha ke Akua!
ps- did any of you even listen to all the past 20 nominated albums? Or was your choice was by popularity?
pss- sorry to anyone who was offended by my cussing, but sometimes das the only language some people can relate. |
Edited by - Keoki Kahumoku on 03/02/2008 03:37:32 AM |
|
|
|
wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2008 : 06:17:13 AM
|
Keoki - you no need apologize. This is one place for certain you can speak your mind and be honest with us. We appreciate hearing from your perspective. You bring up some mighty good points. Any kind of competition makes for winners and losers. It is how each individual defines winners and losers that can make for hard feelings. Anyone who records music and plays in front of strangers has my profound admiration. I would be scared and embarassed to do that. Anyone who is willing to share their music has my admiration. It mostly seems that you music guys are one big `ohana. You all seems to want to share and to teach and to perpetuate the music. I for one sincerely appreciate it. It is just that very aloha that have drawn so many haoles and malihini to the music. We find it lacking in other music genres. Because of the heart and soul in the music, because it touches the heart.
I do not think that discussion or conjecture on who we thought may win the award was divisive or trying to break apart instead of coming together. I think it is no different that surmising who would win the super bowl or world series or something like that.
There has been PLENTY stuff in the Hawaiian newspapers about the Hawaiian category for Grammy. That is where I see the controversy coming from -- not from the musicians or the fans, necessarily. Perhaps by the newspapers to foment argument and sell newspapers????
We love your music and that of the other nominated musicians who did not "win" the award. That does not diminish their music. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 03/02/2008 06:18:18 AM |
|
|
|
hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2008 : 06:50:43 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
I do not think that discussion or conjecture on who we thought may win the award was divisive or trying to break apart instead of coming together. I think it is no different that surmising who would win the super bowl or world series or something like that.
Well, no... To be fair, I think I may have thrown the first seemingly divisive stone here. So let me see if I can elucidate my feelings more clearly...
In most of the Grammy categories, the primary goal is to reward excellence in that category - rock, jazz, classical, whatever. These genres have been around a long time and while they may evolve, they aren't likely to go away anytime soon.
To my mind, however, the primary goal of the Hawaiian Grammy category is to bring prominence to a music whose popularity around the globe ebbs and wanes over the years and has come very close to altogether vanishing. A century ago, 3 out of every 5 songs on mainland radio was a Hawaiian song. Now, you have to go looking for it. The Hawaiian culture is unique. The world should know about it, and the best way is through its music.
What I would hate to see happen is that through this category, the world only comes to know one kind of Hawaiian music. Hawaiian music is so diverse that all of the beautiful aspects of it - from slack key to steel guitar to `ukulele to falsetto singing - should be brought to the attention of a world audience.
I never meant to criticize the recent slack key recordings that have won the category as not being worthy of the win. Not at all. If that's how my comments are interpreted, I wholeheartedly apologize.
Rather, what I was trying to express is that from the recent winners in this category, the world may not be getting a complete picture of everything Hawaiian music is and everything that the amazing musicians in Hawai`i can do.
This is nobody's fault. It is function of how the awards are voted on. There are lots of people voting in this category who know little or nothing about Hawaiian music. So we can only conjecture that what they are voting on is familiarity. As Keoki suggested to those who might criticize, I, too, bet that most who voted in the Hawaiian Grammy category didn't hear all five finalists in the category. I would go so far as to say that a vast majority of them didn't hear any of them.
It doesn't make the winners any less worthy. It does make one wonder, however, what is going to come next in the evolution of the Hawaiian music industry to bring it prominence outside of the islands.
|
Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
|
|
|
Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2008 : 07:59:10 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by hwnmusiclives
A century ago, 3 out of every 5 songs on mainland radio was a Hawaiian song.
Wow, brah - there was radio a century ago??? 
Funny - Charles M. Brotman was here in Seattle for a seminar this weekend, and I had the joy of spending some time with him. We spoke a bit about the whole thing and, as to Keoki's point of controversy stirred up by media, Charles commented that, had the folks on that first winning CD not seen the papers and magazines, they'd not have known there was any "controversy" - that it certainly was not reflected in the listeners and audiences who celebrated with them.
Bill is right in that the world won't get a complete picture of Hawaiian music just from the Grammys. (Remember, most of us who participate on TP are deeply into the music, and our perspective is thus uncommon.) I see the Grammy Awards as yet another of the many reasons in recent years to celebrate how healthy and growing the Hawaiian music scene is, and if just one person out of a hundred starts a new exploration into this music with the Grammy winners, and it sparks their desire to dig deeper - hurrah! |
|
|
|
Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2008 : 08:42:41 AM
|
quote:
Hawaiian music is so diverse that all of the beautiful aspects of it - from slack key to steel guitar to `ukulele to falsetto singing - should be brought to the attention of a world audience.
Hwnmusiclives... It seems you have not listened to the "Treasures" CD (or the last several grammy winners either).
It has all of these elements you just listed. It has slack-key, ukulele, leo ki'eki'e (falsetto), vocal harmonies, steel, and other things as well! (so what is missing from your list above ... nothing.)
This is probably one reason why these compilation albums have won every year, they offer a taste of many different forms. And this way the voters can vote for eight or ten artists instead of just one (or one group).
Last year you could have voted for Led's album alone, or you could have voted for Led on the compilation as well as several other great musicians. Likewise this year, you could have voted for Cyril alone, or for Cyril on the compilation as well as a bunch of other folks.
|
Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 03/02/2008 08:48:20 AM |
|
|
|
hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2008 : 09:00:23 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence
quote:
Hawaiian music is so diverse that all of the beautiful aspects of it - from slack key to steel guitar to `ukulele to falsetto singing - should be brought to the attention of a world audience.
It still seems you have not listened to the "Treasures" CD.
It has all of these elements you just listed. It has slack-key, ukulele, leo ki'eki'e (falsetto), vocal harmonies, steel, and other things as well! (so what is missing from your list above ... nothing.)
This is probably one reason why these compilation albums have won every year, they offer a taste of many different forms. And this way the voters can vote for eight or ten artists instead of just one (or one group).
Last year you could have voted for Led's album alone, or you could have voted for Led on the compilation as well as several other great musicians. Likewise this year, you could have voted for Cyril alone, or for Cyril on the compilation as well as a bunch of other folks.
What is the complete title of that winning CD? It is not the "Treasures of Slack Key, Steel Guitar, and Falsetto Singing." But you keep referring to it simply as "Treasures."
Yes, by now, I have heard the CD. I get what you're saying. Despite a second attempt, I am still not making clear what I am saying.
I am saying that I don't think Raiatea would have had a snowball's chance in Waikiki of winning the award in the current climate unless she had named her CD "Hawaiian Blossom Slack Key."
I very much understand that there were elements of other type of Hawaiian music represented on the winning CD. I cannot stress enough that I am not attacking the CD! I am attacking the system that allows the industry to vote on other aspects of the industry that they know nothing about.
My most altruistic hope is for a system that would not be as cavalier as, "It has 'slack key' in the name and slack key is popular, so I'm going to vote for it."
Keali`i Reichel and Brothers Cazimero are fine examples of a type of Hawaiian music that employs little or no slack key guitar. Both were nominated; both lost. Keola Beamer, Cyril Pahinui, Daniel Ho (who produced Tia Carrere), and Ho`okena all have been nominated. These artists DO employ slack key. They all lost.
I see a direct connection between how the academy is voting and the name of the CD that wins. They are judging the book by its cover, I fear. I don't subscribe to your notion that a 99.7% non-Hawaiian voting academy has voted for these CDs because they reward multiple artists instead of just one - because I don't think they would recognize the name of even one of those artists if you challenged them on it. And I doubt they have gotten a taste of the "taste of many forms" you mention.
And you can bet that if this had happened in any other category in the Grammys history that there would have been public outcry. Nobody would tolerate U2 winning Best Rock Album or Garth Brooks winning Best Country Album three years in a row. It's the equivalent of saying that the same artist continues to top his best work year after year after year - which as artistic endeavor would be very difficult to do. And it would make the other artists think they should all stay the hell home.
Fortunately, none of the artists do this for the awards, do they? 
|
Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
Edited by - hwnmusiclives on 03/02/2008 09:07:57 AM |
|
|
|
Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2008 : 10:10:02 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by hwnmusiclives
And you can bet that if this had happened in any other category in the Grammys history that there would have been public outcry. Nobody would tolerate U2 winning Best Rock Album or Garth Brooks winning Best Country Album three years in a row.
Do you recall the year Paul Simon won "Album of the Year" for "Graceland?" He thanked Stevie Wonder for not making an album that year, as Wonder had taken that award a couple of years in a row.
Look at how many times Jimmy Sturr has won for Best Polka Album - it happens all the time. And I know there has been public outcry amongst polka fans.
The Grammy voters often take a long time to shake out a category and widen their ground of choices; it's too soon to be so furious about the Hawaiian category. Celebrate the wider exposure for a field that really means so little to so few people outside our circle!
|
|
|
|
Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2008 : 10:37:06 AM
|
quote:
Look at how many times Jimmy Sturr has won for Best Polka Album - it happens all the time. And I know there has been public outcry amongst polka fans.
GOOD ONE... ROTFL!! (true or not!)
|
Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
