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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
 Posted - 02/08/2008 : 06:58:19 AM
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As an extension of recent rain and weather concerns...
as my awareness returns to such thoughts...what are longer term concerns and ramifications of Global Warming for the Hawaiian Islands?
As sea levels rise, what problems and solutions are possible?
Nothing like a simple topic!
Personally, I'm thinkin' uplands!
It's cooler up there... gravity is lighter up there, and I can drive to the beach.
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Edited by - Kapila Kane on 02/08/2008 06:58:48 AM |
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da_joka
Lokahi
361 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 07:29:05 AM
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| effects of da global warming/cooling cycles goin be felt in HI da same as it is in any lowlying places anywea else in da world. Maybe by da time da ocean goin rise, Lo`ihi might be it's own island, an all da residents can move dea ;-P |
If can, can. If no can, no can. |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 09:34:08 AM
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From http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/08/opinion/08fri4.html?ref=opinion
" If anything jolts Hawaii into action, it might simply be a late-stirring sense of doom.
As countries were meeting in Honolulu last month to discuss global warming, environmental demonstrators were going around the city marking a line in blue chalk on the ground. It represented the inundation zone from a 1-meter rise in sea level. Frighteningly, Waikiki and much of downtown Honolulu were on the wrong side of the line."
...Reid
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 09:43:51 AM
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If you get enough money to get a place in Hawai'i, buy mauka.
Jesse Tinsley |
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 12:38:30 PM
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Personally I am sort of hoping for about 20 meters- half way between the "small kine" estimates of the "it could never happen" denial group, and the "we're s***wed" tipping point, all the ice is melting doom and gloom crowd. Then instead of living in the back of the valley I will have a nice oceanfront property at the back of a very deep bay- making it easy to kayak to the end of the road...
Of course if the worst comes, it's going to be time to move to the mauka lands on my other property- our coastal strip will be quite narrow or gone, but that 1400 foot pali ought to be high enough!
Seriously, we are fortunate to have these high islands- entire Pacific countries are likely going to disappear even under the best bet predictions. We should be considering the implications of the global economic disruptions even a meter or two will create, and focus on self sufficiency in basics like food. Forget about Waikiki disappearing under water- what is going to happen to most people in Hawai'i if the barges stop coming? THAT would be the real disaster!
Chris
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 8:54:52 PM
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Earth been changing since beginning of time. Humans changing, too. Glaciers used to be here where I am in Ohio. Musta been global warming, because they are not here any longer. What about that land bridge between Siberia and Alaska? Where is it now? Where is Pangea now? Where is Port Royal, Jamaica? How come we find plenty trilobite fossils in Pennsylvania in the Laurel Highlands?
I'm not saying global warming does not exist, I am saying that perhaps humans affect it less than we think and perhaps it is a part of ever changing nature.
In the overall scheme of things ponder this. . . are humans so arrogant as to think they have such power in affecting the cosmos? |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 02/08/2008 8:55:53 PM |
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 04:13:35 AM
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Cosmos? No, we are insignificant on the scale of the solar system, let alone a galaxy cluster, say. But anyone who doesn't think we are significant on the scale of this one planet needs to wake up!
Living in "the endangered species capital of the world", watching entire ecosystems disappear in my short life (Pu'u Waawaa dry forest, for example)due to man's activities, watching the ecosystem crashing right at this moment on my property, the most remote ahupua'a in Hawai'i, from man made causes even though only a few people a year set foot on it (Clidemia invasion and pig population boom), I can't help thinking that someone who can't see the destruction we are causing must be living in a place where the natural habitat was destroyed long ago.
On a grand scale, experts can prove that extinctions are happening at a faster rate today than at any other time in the history of the earth. It is a sobering thought that in the great extinctions of the past, no land animals survived that were much larger than a rabbit.
Are you willing to sacrifice the future of humanity for your pleasures today? I am not; my grandchildren deserve to have grandchildren of their own. It isn't "the economy, stupid!"- it is the planet we need to be thinking about and taking care of. No matter what effect it has on our world economy and level of consumerism- and it may actually be beneficial- we need to reduce our carbon dioxide output to a tiny fraction of the current levels, and protect the remaining undisturbed habitats on the planet. And we need to do it now.
True, on a cosmic scale this will accomplish nothing- the rest of the universe is unlikely to notice the extinction of the human race and the majority of the existing species on the planet, and in a few million years an entirely new flora and fauna will develop. We need to wake up and see that this is the choice- act now or the race dies. Every person educated on the issues knows that although saying it makes them sound like a fanatic in our current political climate, this is indeed the choice we face. Real, serious action now or the extinction of the human race. The choice is ours to make, and we must make it now- chosing not to face reality is a choice not to act.
Sorry for the bad news. Think I'm crazy? Educate yourself with the facts, not propaganda, and think again...
Chris
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 05:17:59 AM
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Here is an interactive sea level rise map. I don't think I believe it, though, because I have seen another, more detailed one, not based on Google, that shows more inundation. But I can't find it again. However, Nothing much will happen to near-coastal Eastern US, except Fla. The obvious coastal waterway barriers will go under.
http://flood.firetree.net/
...Reid |
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 05:33:06 AM
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I would call that a "best case scenario" map, and think most scientists studying climate change would argue the sea level rise will be substantially more during the next century. Judging by the areas shown as submerged in Waipi'o, it looks like a one meter rise.
Now center it on Hawai'i, and zoom in on Honolulu...
I'm afraid that doesn't bring me anywhere near oceanfront in Waipi'o, although my brother will be happy to be surfing in his front yard!
Chris
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Edited by - ypochris on 02/09/2008 05:38:41 AM |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 06:49:15 AM
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| When the one-meter rise has occurred, you can the bet the big money folks with beach front property will take the land from the wiser but poorer folks who had the kine properties up at the one meter line. Imminent dominance... |
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sandman
Lokahi
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 09:13:30 AM
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Since our higher high tides peak just over seven feet a one meter rise would put the Pacific in our living room at high tide. Even now our boat, a 32 foot trawler, towers above us at high tide. A rise of more than a meter means we would be living aboard and looking down at where we used to be. Ah, the joys of living in a man made harbor cut into a flood plain.
Sandy |
Leap into the boundless and make it your home.
Zhuang-zi |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2008 : 05:46:50 AM
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Sandy, that's an interesting, and important, point. No map, or other account, I have seen, shows the effect of normal tides, storm waves, or "abnormal" high tides. In Hawai`i, there is hardly any tidal change - about a foot or two, as it is situated in a pretty neutral spot. But, 60 footers appear pretty often, especially on NW and SE facing shores during the trade shifts.
Your 7 ft tide is high compared to ours, but, having just seen again movies of the 1938 hurricane, it is pretty clear that Long Island would be nearly washed away if the sea level rose only slightly (it is merely the terminal moraine of the glaciers that carved out the N-S valleys here in CT, and not very stable soil). As LI has the same population as does Chicago, a lot of people would be in a world of hurt.
Cape Cod, just a sand bar, would similarly be blown away in a modestly violent storm.
Where we live, up a valley (called The Vale of Cheshire) from New Haven, we would lose trees and wind damaged houses, but have no sea water threat.
BTW, tell us about your 32 ft trawler - it must be neat to chug around in. And you have an escape mechanism.
...Reid |
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sandman
Lokahi
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2008 : 7:15:05 PM
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Our trawler, Tai-Pan, is a 32 foot Grand Banks built in 1988. It is the latest and probably last of a series of boats, most of them sail, we have had since we married in 1965. It is indeed a great escape hatch and a fine coastal cruiser, well found and kept as they say. We share it with our three cats.
Sandy
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Leap into the boundless and make it your home.
Zhuang-zi |
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KäneKïHö`alu
Akahai
64 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2008 : 5:35:01 PM
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| I really don't think global warming is as big a problem as people are making it out to be. |
E mālama pono a e hoʻomaha ma ka maluhia o ke Akua,
Matt |
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javeiro
Lokahi
USA
459 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2008 : 6:35:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by KäneKïHö`alu
I really don't think global warming is as big a problem as people are making it out to be.
There are many people, scientists included, who would agree with you. It's just a politically unpopular position to take. As for me, I really don't know what to think. But if we can't accurately predict the weather for next week, why are people so quick to take as gospel what some say may happen 50 or 100 years from now? |
Aloha,
John A. |
Edited by - javeiro on 03/04/2008 02:49:54 AM |
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2008 : 6:55:35 PM
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I wish it was happening 50 or 100 years from now. Unfortunately, it is happening now. Towns washing away in Alaska because there is no sea ice blocking the waves, and buildings sinking into what was once permafrost. Huge chunks of Antarctica falling into the ocean. Glaciers retreated further than ever seen before. Kiribati islanders wondering where they can go as their country sinks under water. Hotter, drier summers and colder, wetter winters acroiss the U.S, according to NOAA- based on 135 years of data. More and bigger storms- New Orleans? Not provable, but likely. Bangladesh? Same. Drought across the west, end unlikely. Need I go on?
No reputable scientist is questioning the reality of climate change any more- only the severity. Proven "beyond a reasonable doubt"- the highest standard of proof. Even that most stalwart opponent of the idea of climate change, Mr. Bush, has come around to admitting the reality. I know, there is a large group of people who argue that the earth is flat, but I accepted that it was round even before I went around the world. Hard to believe that the propaganda of the energy lobby has been so effectual that we even have some "flat earthers" right here in the taro patch...
Chris
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Edited by - ypochris on 03/03/2008 6:57:34 PM |
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