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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
 Posted - 03/06/2008 : 02:43:55 AM
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Funny how they all seem to feel they are in the shadow of their father, even though all of them are great in their own right. Ther is a strong case here for musical talent being genetic. I think Hawaiians in general have musical genes- there are more musicians per capita in the Hawaiian race than any other race I am aware of.
Chris
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2008 : 04:06:19 AM
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Chris, there have been lots of studies showing some genetic component to musicality. But, there is lots that is cultural, too, as the brain actually remodels as it learns music (or some other skill - in different places). Think of all the Welsh who can automatically sing beautiful harmonies any time or any place or doing anything - where ever they gather, like in a bus or at a football game or in church.
If you are in a place with lots of music, you get it early.
...Reid |
Edited by - Reid on 03/06/2008 04:06:57 AM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2008 : 04:10:22 AM
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| Chris - you are so right about that. Music is a very important part of the culture. I wonder why that is? Could it be because there was no written language and the practic of chants was in and of itself, somewhat musical? I have read that plenty kanaka maoli went to Christian churches, not for the religion aspect, but because they thoroughly delighted in the himeni. Just about every family has at least one musically inclined person who either plays guitar, `ukulele, piano, or something. Cannot practice hula without being intimately involved with mele -- for both kahiko and `auana. Notice how the kumu hula have such beautiful voices -- Robert Cazimero-, Keali`i Reichel, Vicky Holt-Takamine, Mapuana de Silva, Leilehua Yuen, etc., etc., etc. Some of that may be sociaological in nature -- if you have spare time from chores of surviving, you can develop "art". |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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KäneKïHö`alu
Akahai
64 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2008 : 11:13:55 AM
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| The world changes over the course of time. There are spots that are now land which were ocean thousands of years ago. The atolls of the Pacific were once islands. This is what happens. People lost their villages to ocean rising in the past, too. It's a cycle that will continue on and thousands of years from now people will think the same thing. |
E mālama pono a e hoʻomaha ma ka maluhia o ke Akua,
Matt |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2008 : 11:52:38 AM
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| Tell that to the people whose great-grandchildren's villages will be wiped off the map, and see if they say: "Oh, well, in that case - go ahead and buy that SUV. Don't mind us." |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2008 : 12:08:34 PM
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Not that I wish disaster upon anyone, however....
I have often wondered by people build houses right on the shore in hurricane prone areas -- we've all seen pics of those North and South Carolina beach houses up on stilts that get blown away every time a hurricane hits those areas, yet the people rebuild. If someone down home built a house on bottom land, they know it would get flooded every spring. Who would want that? If they beuild it on an unstable hill, or at the bottom of an unstable hill, there may be rock slides and/or mud slides. Kind of like Charlie Chaplin's cabin ttering on the edge in I forget which movie.
Why aren't there more uses of wind turbines to generate electricity? It does not make anything bad does it? Seems to me up on the pali and mountains, could generate plenty wind. When I went up Haleakala and Kilauea, wind sure was blowing. Seem like windward side (hence the name), wind is always blowing. Seems to me that has got to be cheaper and more effective thank nukes, damming up rivers and making hydro power plants.
Why not more use of solar power? Over here at our NASA center, they have been working on energy generation for as long as I can remember. They have acres of solar cells storing up electricity in some kind of battery thingies. We once had a neighbor who ran rubber garden hose on his shed roof for to heat up water for his pool. Cheap and effective.
There are plenty of things we can and should do, if not to malama `aina, to save kala, to be frugal both in expense and resources, whether we believe in global warming or not. Just like in Englad. No more trees for lumber. Go out and conquer world. Put mahogany logs in the holds of ships for ballast and for make furniture back in England. Sell sandalwood logs to China, make plenty kala and other trade for mo`i. Down W. Va., they are blowing up mountains to take coal out of the hills. They are wiping mountains off the face of the earth. Supposed they are "reclaiming" the land when they are pau. I wouldn't hold my breath.
We do some ugly stuff to the earth and to ourselves. Sometimes we cannot see past the end of our own noses. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Puna
Lokahi
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2008 : 12:58:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
Why aren't there more uses of wind turbines to generate electricity? It does not make anything bad does it?
There always seems to be two (or more) sides to everything. In the case of wind turbines, some people object to the aesthetics (personally, I think they look cool). They can use up land that might be better suited for other purposes. But, they also tend to kill birds that are using the same winds to travel distances.
How many birds/how much land? Is it an acceptable trade off? I don't know - I haven't really studied it. To mitigate some of these issues, they are now working on shallow and deep water based wind turbines. Those will also have some negative impact, somehow. Everything is a trade off - there are no perfect solutions. |
Puna |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2008 : 1:10:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
If someone down home built a house on bottom land, they know it would get flooded every spring. Who would want that?
New Orleans gave us a prime example: in many cases, it's the only land that is affordable for those with lower incomes to have a home of their own. Who would begrudge them that? |
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kealii
Aloha
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2008 : 1:35:27 PM
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Interesting about the music and genes and culture. I think both play into it. In my case, I must have been passed over for the "singing" gene! But I can hear just about anything and come up with something on the guitar that sounds somewhat like it (some better than others).
I was thinking about Kui Lee recently, and when I woke up a few mornings ago his song "Days of My Youth" was in my head. So I picked up the guitar which was in taro patch tuning and within a few minutes I had it worked out in slack key style. Its not the greatest, but when stuff just happens like that you have to wonder. Genes ... I don't know.
Gabby and his posterity are a great musical heritage. His sons are taking what he gave them and making it their own. If you listen to them sing, you can tell its a Pahinui.
I saw Gabby perform once - he was all alone on a makeshift stage in a tent at Atta Isaacs home in Kalihi. Atta had already passed away, but their was a one year old luau for one of Atta's grandsons, so Gabby came to perform. No shirt, plastered, standing up with guitar resting on his opu. It was magical - I couldn't believe what I was hearing and seeing. He changed tunings between each song. I wish someone had recorded that session - but I can still see it in my mind. I knew I was in the presence of a genius.
Here is the bad part - our little pissant musical group had to go on after him! We had the monitors, speakers, keyboards, bass, guitars, amps, PA, etc. - but we weren't even in the same galaxy as one man with an acoustic guitar. A bunch of kids trying to play notes in unison. I told the guys that I didn't want to follow Gabby, but the family insisted. I don't remember one thing about our performance that night. But I remember the master and his soul being expressed through his music.
Anyway ... thats my Gabby story.
As to Wanda's comments - I agree that Wind and Solar should be more developed. I got some books out and read up on it. For personal use, Wind requires that you have a constant breeze at so many knots over time. That is with today's technology. You can put these little turbines on your roof - but they don't generate much output. You need to go with the bigger turbines to get enough juice to really make a dent, and so now you are into putting up a mini tower and noise - which in tight quarters your neighbors would not appreciate. Great for farms or mountaintops that have constant wind supply.
The solar to me is a matter of cost benefit. I think I read in Hawaii that they are looking at tax breaks for installing solar. You can even have a negative bill if you end up providing your unused power to the grid. But I think we are talking $25K or more to get something that could begin to make a dent.
I told my wife that since the kids are getting older we need to sell her Sienna van and get a hybrid. So I did a little research, but what I discovered is that because the technology is fairly new in terms of being offered by car makers, they are charging a premium that takes something like 5 years before you break even.
So I'm hoping for the technology to get better and more affordable. My first step would probably be solar (I already have solar for water heating, but I mean for power consumption). But I believe there will come a time when it will be a no brainer for people from a green and cost standpoint.
Aloha no! |
"Geevum ... one more time!" (Gabby) |
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kealii
Aloha
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2008 : 1:41:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Retro
[quote]Originally posted by kealii
You and I don't have to be of a similar mind on this topic to play and enjoy music together - and so we shall.
That's what I'm talking about ! Alohu Nui!!! |
"Geevum ... one more time!" (Gabby) |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2008 : 2:19:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kealii
I told the guys that I didn't want to follow Gabby, but the family insisted. I don't remember one thing about our performance that night. But I remember the master and his soul being expressed through his music.
And that's why you had to go on after him. Look what you gained and what you learned. Bet it made you try harder, practice more, and be a better player. |
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KäneKïHö`alu
Akahai
64 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2008 : 4:18:36 PM
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I agree with Chris on the musical genes. I always wondered growing up how Hawaiʻi has so much talent in our small islands. So few people (compared to other places) yet so much music. Music is really an integral part of Hawaiian culture. It holds all the keys to the past, since most of Hawaiian history is passed down through ʻoli. Only recently on the timeline has writing been a part of the Hawaiian language. I am so glad to be Hawaiian and living in Hawaiʻi surrounded by ʻohana and hoaaloha that have given me the gift of music.
P.S. E kala mai if I offended anyone talking about the global warming. It was definitely not my intent. |
E mālama pono a e hoʻomaha ma ka maluhia o ke Akua,
Matt |
Edited by - KäneKïHö`alu on 03/06/2008 4:19:56 PM |
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2008 : 6:39:33 PM
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Wanda and all,
I have run on solar electric and hot water for 30 years. A solar hot water heater gives you an incredible return on your investment- electric hot water is one of the most wasteful uses of power. Solar panels for electricity only become economical if you live a couple of poles away from the grid- but when they charge you thousands of dollars a pole, it quickly becomes viable. Various inexpensive technologies for solar electricity have been developed in the last 30 years, but surprise! Energy companies buy up the patents and the price has never dropped below $5 a watt. With grid power averaging about 12 cents a kilowatt, it takes about 20 years for a cell to generate enough electricity to "pay" for itself at that price.
I bought my first solar panel 30 years ago, and it is still producing power on my roof. Even one panel, a battery, and a light bulb seems like a miracle when you are used to candles and kerosene lamps. Eventually I wound up with 24 40-watt panels, generating an average of 5 kilowatts a day. This isn't much when compared to a typical American household, but it ran a load of laundry a day, lights, music, power tools, movies, and a computer. When my kids left it proved to be more than I needed, and so they took a few with them to start their own systems. Once you get into the power conservation habit, you need very little to be happy.
The weakest point in a solar energy system is storage. Batteries just don't last like solar panels do. I found big banks of batteries to be a waste of money- better to just store the energy generated in a single day, and adjust your energy use to your energy production. Better to wash clothes on a sunny day when they will dry quickly; do two loads on a sunny day and don't wash when it is raining. Things like that.
Really, though, it isn't so much how the energy is generated as it is how much we use. Energy conservation is the best, most cost effective strategy, and anyone can do simple things and save money. First, modern appliances don't turn off when you hit the off switch- they just go dark, but continue sucking nearly as much power. This way your television, for example, comes on in a second instead of taking several seconds. Putting all your electronics on a power bar with a switch will save a typical household 5%-10% of their electric bill, and businesses average more like 15%. Most people use a surge protector anyway- the trick is simply turning it off. Compact florecent bulbs use a quarter of the energy of a regular incandecent bulb, and last for many years. Huge money savers. LED lights use far less yet, but the ones I have tried need a little work on color balance- great for flashlights, though! Insulation is a no-brainer, and setting your thermostat to a more reasonable level saves big bucks. 65 degrees is plenty warm in the snow belt in winter- wear a sweater! And 80 degrees is not intolerably hot in the summer with shorts and a tee shirt. So many people I know set the thermostat to 76 degrees in the winter and 66 degrees in the summer- it is just backwards!
The bottom line is that if everyone would make a serious effort to reduce energy consumption, it would have little effect on their quality of life, save them a lot of money, and make a big difference to the planet. Government could and should step in and mandate much higher fuel standards for cars, subsidise mass transit, force rail companies to honor their agreement to carry passengers on all routes (they were given a mile wide strip of land along their tracks in exchange for this), require appliances to consume no more than microwatts of energy when switched off, mandate that thermostats can go no higher than 72 and no lower than 78, ban incandecent bulbs, and tax carbon emissions instead of income. Even if catastrophic climate change were not an issue, we would all be richer and safer if we were not dependant on imported oil, and healthier if we did not burn so much coal.
I could go on and on, obviously, but enough said...
Chris
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2008 : 10:37:34 PM
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Well Chris. One thing I going say and i donʻt intend to argue it. The Hawaiian people are not necessarily a specific race. When the term is used it itself smacks of racism. "Hawaiian race" has been used by anti Hawaiian movement groups to label us as racists. The Hawaiian people are perhaps a sub group in the larger group labeled Polynesian. I would be grateful if in the future you not use the term.
As far as using less energy. I donʻt know if that is possible. But we can begin to generate the energy we do use with alternate renewable sources that will provide us with the kind of power we need to live in this day and age. I do believe we need to address the carbon issue. It does seem to track that industrialization has contributed to a constant increase in global temperatures since the advent of the industrial age.
So in many ways we may not need to change our life styles too much. We just need to be more in tune with each other and try to allow for everyoneʻs needs in a manner that preserves the planet for future generations.
Wanda, I think that after the people lost their religion, their ability to self rule with the systematic destruction of land tenure and economy. The overthrow of the government was the last straw. All we had left was our music and no one was going to take that away too. I did say before that the music helped to preserve the language and it allowed native speakers to express themselves in a language that was literally outlawed in their own nation. When I was a kid playing music was more fun than going to the movies. It was free and spontaneous as well as entertaining. But, lets not get carried away with the image of the kind but lazy native although no one said this that was one negative image that used to be presented. The idea of Hawaiians only good for play ʻukulele and too lazy for work. When I was a kid my father told me that it was the thing to put us down for being Hawaiian. So you guys got to be careful when you start saying that our genes makes us better musicians than others. That is pretty close to being a racist outlook.
E how about that Gabby he some good guitar player no? |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2008 : 01:15:30 AM
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E Ala E
We, the voices behind the face,
Of the Hawaiian nation, the Hawaiian race
Rise for justice the day has come
For all our people to stand as one,
E Ala E, `eâ, `eâ, `eâ, `eâ,
E Ala E, `eâ, `eâ, `eâ,
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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