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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
 Posted - 02/22/2008 : 08:13:20 AM
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quote:
But is it wrong to make yourself a back-up copy of a CD you’ve purchased in case your original gets lost or damaged? Or an extra “traveling” copy to play in your car while the original stays home in your CD changer? I personally feel that both of these are reasonable. But here’s where things get a bit murky. Can you make an extra CD copy for a spouse? And how about occasionally sharing an individual audio track?
We have discussed many of these issues before, but it is always good to refresh our collective memories.
When you purchase a song legally -- which means you bought the CD or paid for a download -- you can make personal copies for your car, back up, play on your MP3 player, etc etc etc. No worries. Can you make one for your spouse? Ummmmm... maybe. Boy/girl friend? Nope. Best friend who never heard of the band? Also nope.
OK, that's the law. But in practice--- no one cares.... as long as you don't abuse it.
As a working musician, I love it when someone turns a friend on to my music. Sometimes they go on to purchase on of my recordings, sometimes not. And yes, I do it from time to time.
However, I hate it when you copy the whole dang CD and give it away. That's money that could have bought Milkbones for Daisy.
Used CDs (and LPs) are currently not covered. You can legally buy 'em and no royalty goes to the artist. But you still can't copy and distribute them- even if they are out of print. Someone still owns that copyright.
At present there is no mechanism to get royalties to the artists for used LPs and CDs-- and, until the used record market gets as big as the auction art market, there probably never will be.
My solution has always been what I call "The People's Royalty." To compensate for all the slight offenses we accumulate by "sharing" a track with a buddy, buying a used record or the like, just drop a couple bucks into the hat of the next musician you see playing live.
What goes around, comes around.
Daisy thanks you. |
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kaniala5
Akahai
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 08:28:55 AM
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For me, I once purchased a collection of reggae music from someone working at a studio. I was not aware that she was pirating the music until she got fired after being caught doing it by the owner of the studio.
I personally do not copy pieces of copyrighted material in any form except for personal use. This includes tabs and notated music. I know how much work goes into most studio recordings and I know that some producers and engineers will run up unrealistic bills for young musicians that are just starting out making it hard just to break even. So, I buy when I can and listen to the radio when I can't.
I know that for teachers in public and private settings, certain materials can be copied for educational purposes. However, most music in print does not follow this protocol and does require the teacher to get permission from the artist. Not everyone knows about this.
I'm done gabbing on this topic. |
Look for reasons to be happy rather than excuses to be miserable. |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 10:04:22 AM
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Good topic and interesting to read Dr. Stillman's thoughts on the subject from the perspective of a kumu hula. It's a good reminder to all of us.
Of course, this community is filled with musicians and music fans who are all about supporting the artists. This is evident from this thread as well as past discussions. I cannot think of a more supportive group... CDs, concerts, workshops, etc. And often times, I think to myself, it was worth more than the price of admimission! |
Andy |
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Ianui
Lokahi
USA
298 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 08:23:01 AM
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I had a situation where a person attended a performance of an artist I represent and video taped his performance.
They put it on You Tube and another popular site. By the time I became aware of it over 800 downloads had been done of the full songs.
This person got very upset when asked to remove them from his site Or at lest only put 30 seconds or so of the songs up there. They totally believed (and still do) that by making the songs available (for free) they were promoting the artist.
Sorry but my belief is that by giving away an artist work without even asking permission to do so, is only a promotion of their own business venture and in no way helps or brings revenue to the artist. Its content they use to promote themselves.
As far as believing that giving away an artists work for free creates interest for others to buy, Where are those factual statistics coming from? Would be interested in any actual facts and not rationalization of illegal behavior.
For an artist to make their own work available for sale on a place like You Tube is one thing, for someone else to give the artist work away for free is another and unaceptable story. |
Edited by - Ianui on 02/24/2008 08:33:20 AM |
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kawikasurf
Aloha
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 4:02:01 PM
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| I personally find Mark’s sensible, pay-it-forward guidelines to be humane, practical, and coming from his perspective as a professional musician, extremely generous. Zero tolerance is an attractive concept but it removes common sense from any equation to which it is applied. There is a big difference between sharing a music track privately, with a friend, and posting a performance on YouTube. With respect to statistics relating to purchases resulting from exposure to an artist you hadn’t previously heard, none were cited – only my own anecdotal experience, which by no means proves or disproves the hypothesis. It’s possible that I’m unique in having made CD purchases under these circumstances but I somehow doubt it. |
Edited by - kawikasurf on 02/25/2008 4:05:40 PM |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 8:03:01 PM
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On the subject of Youtube, it is a double-edged sword. Artists are discovered and promoted at Youtube, and in some ways they may lose a sale because of it. I think Youtube does whet the appetite when a small number of videos are available, but as Ianui points out, it should be at the artists discretion. The business model is being turned upside down in the record industry right now, but Hawaiian music has never fit the record industry mold of labels>airplay>retail purchases.
Jesse |
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Ianui
Lokahi
USA
298 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2008 : 04:17:38 AM
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Kawikasurf - nothing personal was intended so forgive me if it sounded that way. I am a statistical kind of guy and have heard the stories about sucesses on you tube by unknown atists. Nothing factual
For few (especially unknowns) this may be a good thing. However to take the works of recognized performers and place then on a site with a free download of their work, without the artists permission, is to me not right.
I look at some of these sights which are usually commercial and use this free (ripped off) content to promote the enterprise of a person that put up the site. They use the works of others, without permission to grandise the content of their site, in an effort to appear more legitimate and give the work away, bringing more people to their site to get a song for free, which cuts the revenue of the artist.
I believe some of the people that run these sites truly want to promote Hawaiian music, However many of these sites are run by people that do this as a hobby They do not have the financial backing to aquire legitimate content. So putting up freebe's is a simple way to put content in their site. They have no understanding as to what this does.So to me its not about promoting an artist its just a way to put free content into a hobbyists web site. |
Edited by - Ianui on 02/27/2008 04:20:59 AM |
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kawikasurf
Aloha
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2008 : 11:48:01 AM
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| Don - Thanks for your gracious post and for further elucidating your position. The classic problem with e-mail is that inflection is lost. I didn’t take your post as personal criticism and regret if my response suggested otherwise. Sounds as though we’re alike in believing that, while some truths may be self-evident, most require proof by some measurable and statistically significant means. I felt your request for supporting data was entirely appropriate. (And your implied assumption that none existed was, of course, dead-on accurate.) Meanwhile, what you say about the topic at hand makes tons of sense – thanks again for the additional perspective. |
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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2008 : 4:17:21 PM
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Regarding youtube vids. I went to a concert by Jake Shimabukuro back in Sept., and he specifically mentioned how helpful the vids of him on youtube were, in getting him recognition. Don't know if he posted them or some one else did, but he acknowledged them. I have also been introduced to people I would have not known of because of youtube vids, and it has caused me to seek out their music and buy their CDs. Kaniala Masoe comes to mind. (Aukahi is the group)and their CD Pili Aloha is great. Never would have bought it except for seeing him on youtube.
As I write this post, I am listening to a live streaming audio concert by John Cruz on the internet. Does anyone have their Audio Capture program set to record it. I think there might be a few. |
"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
Edited by - markwitz on 02/27/2008 4:27:30 PM |
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Doug Fitch
Akahai
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2008 : 9:50:59 PM
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| Mahalo Maria for this thread! I strongly support the position that artists should benefit from their labor. I also agree that whenever possible, its great to CDs buy directly from the artists themselves (way to go Aunty Maria!). How 'bout this addition: Because we all buy various gifts for folks throughout the year (birthdays, Xmas etc.), why not buy multiple copies from your favorite artists, complete with personalized autographs, for your friends & relatives. If they're not already Hawaiian music lovers, they may soon be as a result of your gift. The artists benefits even more! I get the warm&fuzzy feeling like I'm doing something good twice with each CD.-Doug |
Doug Fitch
fitchdoug @ yahoo.com
www.dougfitchmusic.com
http://youtube.com/user/dougfitchmusic |
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NANI
Lokahi
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2008 : 08:18:29 AM
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| This subject cause a big riff between my new Daughter-in-law and me. Guess it sort of showed me her true charecter. As she one day bragged to me that she NEVER pays for music. And I told her that my feel was that her Ipod was filled with illegal stolen goods. And how would she feel if some one came into my sons studio and just helped themselve to his art( he is a Glass blower) We relly have not gotten along very well since then. Hmm think it was someting I said? |
"A hui hou kakou, malama pono".
Nancy |
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Auntie Maria
Ha`aha`a
USA
1918 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2008 : 12:06:07 PM
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(from kawikasurf):
I was appalled, recently, when I learned that my fiancée’s hula teacher was selling a compilation of tracks from various artists to her beginning students for $15 apiece.
Wanting to believe that the hula teacher is unaware of the copyright legalities, perhaps you could print out my original post and statement from Dr. Stillman, and leave it at the next halau practice for her edumacation??  |
Auntie Maria
===================
My "Aloha Kaua`i" radio show streams FREE online every Thu & Fri 7-9am (HST)
www.kkcr.org - Kaua`i Community Radio
"Like" Aloha Kauai on Facebook, for playlists and news/info about island music and musicians!
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Basil Henriques
Lokahi
United Kingdom
225 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2008 : 12:31:01 AM
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| Further to this topic, I think that the habit of Radio DJ's to play a a few tracks "Back To Back" and only announce some of the artists, is also to be deplored. The DJ is making his living playing the records, the least he can do is give credit where credit is due.. |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2008 : 03:14:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Basil Henriques
Further to this topic, I think that the habit of Radio DJ's to play a a few tracks "Back To Back" and only announce some of the artists, is also to be deplored. The DJ is making his living playing the records, the least he can do is give credit where credit is due..
Yes, and how many times have I heard something I really like and the DJ gives me no clue who it was?
Conversely, some people have said that my continuity announcing borders on "anal" because I not only announce every artist and song title, I also discuss the sidemen (wherever I can identify them). One listener actually wrote in to complain about the number of times I said, "And before that you heard..." in one broadcast.
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Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2008 : 03:23:41 AM
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| I whole heartedly agree with Basil and Bill on all counts. Having information given out about the songs played, gives the listeners the chance to associate other songs by the same artist and also helps to introduce people to names that they may not be familiar with. Half of the people and groups that I listen to now, I wouldn't have known about except for the fact that I learned about them from listening to Bill's commentary on his shows. |
"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
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