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Basil Henriques
Lokahi
United Kingdom
225 Posts |
 Posted - 02/27/2008 : 1:33:08 PM
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| What sports did the Hawaiians play BEFORE they were invaded and overthrown ? |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2008 : 1:49:41 PM
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quote:
What sports did the Hawaiians play BEFORE they were invaded and overthrown ?
What overthrow are you referring to?
A) When the Tahitians invaded about 1400 years ago and overthrew the existing populations (including the Menehune)?
B) When Kamehameha I invaded and overthrew the islands that were not already under his control about 198 years ago?
or C) When the United States slowly invaded and then then overthrew the Hawaiian government about 115 years ago?
Please be specific! 
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 02/27/2008 3:05:11 PM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2008 : 3:08:38 PM
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Actually Lawrence, a sport that persisted throughout all those periods (depending on how rigid you want to be on evidence 1200 and 130 years ago) was catching thrown spears and hurling them back. One of my heroes, John Papa I`i did it when newspapers were there to record the event and describe it as a customary pastime and entertainment.
Not to mention surfing, which is too obvious (or grass/mountain sledding).
Of course you knew which "overthrow" Basil meant - sorta like which overthrow happened in Old Blighty, or here (in which place and who was thrown over whom?).
...Reid |
Edited by - Reid on 02/27/2008 3:16:30 PM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2008 : 3:37:27 PM
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| What about throwing the burning reeds down from the palis and someone would catch them? Sounds like swell fun. There were some games, something kinda of like checkers, I think. And some kind of bowling with rocks. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2008 : 3:38:48 PM
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Hawaiian sports?
Ulumaika- a type of bowling.
Surfing, with board, body, and canoe
Spear throwing, dodging, and catching
Lua- bone breaking- a martial art
Wrestling
Running
Canoe racing
Cliff jumping- both into water and onto land
A sort of dart throwing using cane tassels
Shark riding
Hunting rats with bow and arrow
Holua- sledding
Rock rolling- uphill
This is what leaps to mind; I'm sure there are plenty more. If I had Kamakau to refer to I could have come up with a complete list, instead of relying on memory of what I have seen, participated in, or was especially struck by the description of.
Where exactly is the line on what is "sport"? Some things, like lo'i stomping, combine play and work. And I think in olden times most Hawaiians would have considered sex a sport, and na koa would have considered war a sport.
Fun topic!
Chris
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 02:00:16 AM
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| Sex a SPORT? Holy macanoli! Hope it weren't a spectator sport. I think to men, maybe a sport, but to women, serious bidness. Hope they did not have a world series or super bowl. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 03:18:17 AM
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In old Hawai'i sex had no moral or religous overtones. Reproduction was considered a positive outcome, and who the father was geneally unimportant (exception with ali'i). Everyone pretty much did as they pleased with who they pleased; games and gambling commonly had a night spent with the opponent who pleased you as the prize. The missionaries were shocked by the openly sexual culture in Hawai'i.
On the other hand, the Hawaiians were shocked by the open eating of the Europeans. They pretty much ate what they pleased, where and when they pleased, with whomever they pleased. What Godless heathens!
Funny thing, I would have though that shark riding (as described by Kamakau) would have drawn more of a reaction- cultural difference, I suppose. This was a chiefly sport. The chief would gather a bunch of pigs and 'awa. The pigs would be sacrificed and blood and livers removed. Several canoes would go far out in the ocean, and the blood used to atract a great white shark. At first the shark would be frantic and dangerous, but after being feed enough pigs it would calm down and become docile, coming up to the canoes to be fed "like a dog". At this point the pig livers,which the shark prefers above all, mixed with generous quantities of 'awa, was hand fed to the shark by the chief. He would then slip two nooses over the now compliant great white shark, behind the dorsal fin, and run ropes to two canoes. The chief would then climb on the back of his new steed, and the canoes would guide the shark into land, occasionally tossing more 'awa laced pork liver to the shark to encourage and calm it. The shark was led right up on to the beach, where the chief would dismount in front of the admiring crowd, and then sacrifice the shark to his God.
Now wasn't that more interesting than something we all do all the time?
Chris
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Edited by - ypochris on 02/28/2008 03:36:45 AM |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 03:42:03 AM
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I would have made a really good Hawaiian  |
Bob |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 09:15:14 AM
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quote:
Funny thing, I would have though that shark riding (as described by Kamakau) would have drawn more of a reaction
Well, it sure got my attention. I was aware of most of the other sports you mentioned. This was new. Thanks for the details.
One of the bills in the Cook Islands sports a lovely illustration of a shark rider, as you can see here:
http://www.kcshop.com/imagegallery/CookIslands.htm
Of course, she is a mythological figure -- one of Pele's relatives or guises, if memory serves.
I'll stick to riding a paipo board on itty bitty waves, thank you very much.
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 10:28:50 AM
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Cliff jumping was another unique Hawaiian sport. The key here was that the cliff be high enough. Haole witnesses report seeing jumps of several hundred feet. Apparently once enough speed was attained, the body could be used much like a diver in water (or a skydiver before the parachute is opened). My understanding is that survival depended on swooping upward at the last moment to slow your decent, and landing in thick soft brush. Not something I am going to intentionally try, but I sure would love to see it demonstrated!
Actually I did try this once, in an abbreviated fashion. When I was a teenager I tried to climb the gap between Waimanu and Waipi'o, because some crazy Hawaiian lied to me and said it was the quickest way back to Waipi'o. It took me far longer just to get to the back of Waimanu than it would have taken on the usual trail. Anyway, in the far back there are a series of "short" waterfalls before you actually approach the gap. Climbing one, I couldn't quite get a grip on anything from the legde I was on and without thinking I jumped a foot or so to grab a convenient ohia tree. Only then did it occur to me that you can jump a foot from a toehold, but you can't drop a foot and catch the toehold.
When I got to the gap I dicovered that the bottom 200 feet was overhung, but there was a pile of scree on one side you could climb and get above it. Then it was vertical for about 300 feet, after which it looked a bit easier. I picked out a route that led acroos the face and saw that if I could get to a certain ohia I should be able to make it to the top from there as it was no longer vertical.
Up I climbed, over the rotten rock covered with a thin layer of mud. Eventually I made it to just below the ohia tree I was aiming for, but try as I might I couldn't get to it. It was only a couple feet above my fingertips- I could just jump up and grab it, except there was no way I could drop back down to the toehold I was standing on. I thought, well, I already did this at the waterfall- no going back now, might as well just jump up and grab the tree. So I did- except that instead of me going up the rock I was standing on crumbled. Down I fell/slid about 300 feet on the near vertical face, grabbing anything that went by trying to stop myself. Finally WHUMP! I hit a large ti plant and managed to grab hold of it before I fell further.
Just as I realized my legs were hanging over the top of the 200 foot overhung section, all the boulders and debris I had dislodged in my fall came down on my head. The only thing that saved me was that I was wearing a frame pack (with nothing but a sleeping bag inside) that had a metal bar across the top- I leaned the bar over the top of my head and the boulders (fortunately only about basketball sized)hit the bar instead of my head and the impact was absorbed by the pack suspension.
But the metal bar kept hitting the back of my head, and I was quite dazed by the time the boulders passed. Then I realized that the ti plant I was depending on for my life had been knocked loose in the thin soil by the impact of me and all those boulders, and was slowly pulling out of the ground. I quickly swung towards the next ti, and the force dislodged the ti I had been relying on and over the drop it went. I didn't even slow down at the second ti as it was too wealy rooted to hold me- I swung monkey style to a third ti plant, dropping the second one over the pali as I went. As I hung there I heard the two ti plants hit far below, long seconds after I let go of them. As I was now quite exhausted and dazed and was still hanging over a 200 foot overhang, it is amazing that I was able to muster a last gasp of strength and pull myself up onto the ti plant, and from there to a ledge where I lay against the cliff face for a long time, trembling.
Eventually I recovered enough to realize my situation- no way forward, no way back, no chance of any help, no food, no shelter, raining, very late in the afternoon. My first thought was "if I just follow this ledge to there, then climp up to that ledge and follow that crack..."- but I just couldn't do it again after coming so so close to death. So I worked my way across the other way, back to the scree pile and the base of the gap.
Interesting side note (from a taro farmer)- in this totally inaccessable spot, where no sane person would ever go, with no way forward and no way back, there was a bunch of taro growing at the base of the pali. How did it get there?
Anyway, finally, I get to the point of the story- cliff jumping. Perhaps this is how it originated, who knows? When I had worked my way back to that one waterfall I had jumped to get up, I tried but there was no way to climb down. There I was where no one would ever find me, cold, hungry, tired, almost dark- and only 50 vertical feet from my way home. Eventually I decided I was going to die for sure if I didn't jump, so I might as well make it quick. I fluffed the sleeping bag inside the pack, put the frame towards the ground, and jumped- trying to sail towards some thick vegetation at the bottom. Much to my amazement, after jumping at least 50 feet I landed completely unharmed.
Then I walked in the complete raining dark from the very back of Waimanu to the front. And here is how I know those falling boulders gave me a concussion. I was living in Waimanu at the time, and when I had left at dawn that morning I had forgotten a letter to my parents (they insisted I write every two weeks so they knew I was O.K- I don't know what they were worried about, I was fifteen and perfectly capable of taking care of myself...), which I had left on my bed. So I walked acroos the front of the valley to my camp, got the letter, then headed (in the dark, way past midnight) up the Z trail towards Waipi'o. Anyone who knows the area understands how crazy even walking up the 1400 foot pali in the dark is, and many hikers don't make it from Waipi'o to Waimanu in a day. So instead of lying down in my bed, up the pali I went, and two ridges over before I collapsed from exhaustion on the trail- Waipi'o is where I had planned to reach that morning, and I was determined to get to Waipi'o. I barely was able to get my sleeping bag out of my pack, then passed out in the rain. When I woke up cold and wet in the morning, I couldn't help but wonder what in the bleep I was doing there instead of lying warm and dry in my bed in Waimanu!
I ran into the fellow who had told me there was a trail over the gap many years later at Makalawena- I told him this story and how he laughed and laughed!
Which brings me to another sport I neglected to mention- free climbing. In Waipi'o, chiefs used to prove their valor and fitness to rule by free climbing across the middle of Hi'ilawe falls. This would be at least a quarter mile horizontally on rotten, slippery rock over 500 feet above the base of the 1000 foot falls. Of couse if you were an expert cliff jumper I suppose the possibility of falling wouldn't bother you that much...
Chris
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Edited by - ypochris on 02/28/2008 11:41:13 AM |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 10:56:31 AM
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Chris,
Interesting you would mention "...the cliff had to be high enough." THere is an interesting phenomenon in metropolitan vetgerinary medicine called the "high-rise syndrome" I forget the exact details, but it states that most cats falling from windows of 5 stories high or less will die. Most cats falling from windows between 5 and 30 stories will live. Over 30 stories I think the death rate goes up again. The theory is that below 5 soties they haven;t time to right themselves and 'flatten out' to catch some air, therefore reaching a higher terminal velocity. Above that, they sort of flatten out like a flying squirrel and float down at a slower speed.
I sort of have to wonder, though, about the ability of a 200 pound guy being able to "swoop up:" at the end of a 500 foot fall while going nearly 120 mph!. I think there may have been more "scooping up" than swooping up.
The things some folks do for fun, eh?
Think I'll try riding the next Alaskan shark i see, commonly known as the grizzly bear. I will take my fattest hog...... |
Karl
Frozen North |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 2:25:44 PM
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Sounds like something on Myth Busters, my favorite TV show. On the Today Show, they had a guy who was wearing some kind of suit when he jumped out of a plane. He spread his legs and arms and he looked like a flying squirrel. He did have a parachute which eventually deployed, but the idea is to do this free falling with the engineered suit making it safe for you. Looks plenty scary to me.
I think sport has always been man over nature or man using nature to do feats of skill and dexterity. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2008 : 01:32:13 AM
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| The "preliminaries" ARE a waste of time. This past week, I have had constant phone calls from "McCain", from "Obama" and from "Clinton". I have also had calls from "John Glenn", "Ted Kennedy" and last but not least, "Dennis Kucinich". All of these calls were computerized recorded calls that just launch right into a pre-recorded automated message. Never fails that I am up to my elbows in hot dishwater or some other equally noxious stuff when the phone rings. Or, as a recovering heart patient, I am laying down for a nap and the phone rings. I am ready to toss the dad-blamed phone out the window.And because Ohio holds its primary so late after many other states, I am not certain that what Ohio does really matters. What if either of the candidates had sufficient delegates already? The Ohio primary would be a major waste of money and be entirely meaningless. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2008 : 03:40:54 AM
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Wanda,
Do you have "do not call" legislation in Ohio? In many states you call a number to get that phone on a list, and commercial callers who do not have a "business relationship" with you catch a $25,000 fine if they call you and you complain. Also you can request an individual business not call. I assume this works with campaigns as I never got a single call since I got on the list- although this year, of course, at least the Democratic candidates were not campaigning in Michigan! So the State spent $10 million doing a survey for a private organization that isn't interested in the results. Great use of my money!
Chris
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2008 : 06:32:57 AM
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| The do not call thing does not count in many instances: if you have ever had anything to do with the organization calling you, if it is a not-for-profit organization; and if it is a survey. All kinds of loopholes to get around the legislation. Well, the primary will be over on Tuesday, so I hope that means they will leave us alone at least until late October. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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